Amazon HQ2 thread

[crosbyshow]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Sure they have a shot, but so does Tampa.

No offense to Montreal, it's a wonderful city that many are envious of. The problem with the Montreal proposal is that A) it's not in America and B) most or many speak French as their native tongue, that's two strikes against it.

So why would an American corporation set up something like HQ2 in a foreign nation that primarily speaks a foreign language? That alone would be terrible PR, enough so that it would eliminate the great city of Montreal from being a viable contender.

Mtl is really bilingual. a lot of American people are nervous to visit Mtl because they think Montrealers don't speak any English. It is not the case. In a way , it is a great strengh of this city

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

Lol @ Montreal. C'mon guys, you of all places don't need amazon, and are far better off without it. What could you possibly gain? You are already the best damn city on the continent and affordable to boot. Amazon is a terrible fit culturally for a city that values work/life balance, cultural independence, the arts etc. Really Montreal DONT do it.

oh please, you cant seriously be writing off anyone trying for amazon hq2? i dont think you understand how transformative this will be for where ever it goes. this is not like a new walmart store opening up on the outer loop ya know.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

oh please, you cant seriously be writing off anyone trying for amazon hq2? i dont think you understand how transformative this will be for where ever it goes. this is not like a new walmart store opening up on the outer loop ya know.

What makes you think I don't? It will be a slow process to ramp up to that many people though. Years. I'm not writing anyone off but has MTL made a serious bid? I've seen stuff from Calgary (they even offered to fight bears for HQ2) and Toronto but not much of Montreal.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

*in lower 48 of the united states

minneapolis is certainly colder, but also somewhat drier/sunnier.

i don't really think it's a stretch to say that there is a solid case for stating that great lakes cities probably have the worst** winter weather of larger metro areas in the lower 48 united states. i mean it gets noticebly worse just traveling north through illinois past springfield.

**anecodotal...but also weighting low temps, cloudiness, and precip highly

(i also don't believe that it should weigh in any consideration against chicago as the city makes up for that in my opinion)

Look, anyone who has been North of a Chicago to Denver Line knows that there are FAR worse things than a Chicago or lower Great Lakes winter. The winters get progressively worse the further you go. Milwaukee is noticeably colder and snowier than Chicago and it's just 90 miles North. Chicago winters have a tendency to occasionally not show up, that does not happen in Milwaukee or Minneapolis. The Great Plains get "fuck you, I'll blow your ass right off the highway" winters, it's much much tamer here in the city by the Lake.

Originally Posted by twister244

This is spot on. I lived in Minneapolis for four years before moving to Denver. I have family in Chicago and grew up in Des Moines (more comparable climate). It's not a huge difference, but just enough that I don't miss Minnesota winters at all. Especially after living through the "polar vortex" winter.

This thread has brought up very interesting discussion points on the strengths/weaknesses of each city. In the end though, we simply don't know what's going through the minds of Amazon's key players in all of this.

I still think cities like Chicago/Philly have the best shot. However, if Amazon values other aspects like outdoor life, quality of life, then a city like Denver may creep up on the list. As I stated before, as a Denver citizen, I would rather not have Amazon come here. We definitely have space to build a campus for them in the city, but the shock to the system in terms of COL would probably elevate Denver quickly to a level comparable to Seattle. Building in a city like Chicago would introduce little or no shock, and would probably benefit the city more. Denver will continue to grow and maintain low unemployment with or without Amazon coming here.

The last thing Amazon needs to do is land in Austin or Denver. I go to Denver about one week every other month, the real estate market there is worse than Seattle. They can't build fast enough and half the city is under construction. Amazon would cause a total dearth of supply in the commercial RE markets of these areas which are already suffering from supply issues. This could have cascading negative effects for these cities. For something this big Amazon better go with a big ole' city with enough space and a big enough RE and labor market to make 50k jobs and 8 million SF a mere ripple, not a tidal wave.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Look, anyone who has been North of a Chicago to Denver Line knows that there are FAR worse things than a Chicago or lower Great Lakes winter. The winters get progressively worse the further you go. Milwaukee is noticeably colder and snowier than Chicago and it's just 90 miles North. Chicago winters have a tendency to occasionally not show up, that does not happen in Milwaukee or Minneapolis. The Great Plains get "fuck you, I'll blow your ass right off the highway" winters, it's much much tamer here in the city by the Lake.

this is a wildly upper midwestern perspective. it just is. but yes people familiar with winters in the northern plains would agree with you. i probably underestimated how bad winters are in minneapolis...but have been in chicago many times during what i would consider utterly brutal weather.

i mean, it’s ridiculously cold/blustery (by my standards) in chicago on thanksgiving, quite often that i’ve been. it snowed last time (i guess two years ago *edit: 2014 i think). most places i spend time - snowing on thanksgiving is unheard of.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i probably underestimated how bad winters are in minneapolis...

imgur

[Centropolis]

that's it.


this whole amazon thing has turned us into monsters. look at us.


media.giphy.com

[Sun Belt]

Who's ready to sign up for Amazon Key? Why not let random low wage strangers have access to your home while you're not present? Nothing could go wrong.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Who's ready to sign up for Amazon Key? Why not let random low wage strangers have access to your home while you're not present? Nothing could go wrong.

"i could have sworn that there was an original picasso hanging over the living room couch when i left for work this morning".

oh well, at least my cheetos finally arrived.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

"i could have sworn that there was an original picasso hanging over the living room couch when i left for work this morning".

oh well, at least my cheetos finally arrived.

And where's Fluffy my darling kitty? And Thor my German Shepherd? Did that Amazon delivery guy let them loose? Can't they read my pet signs?

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

*in lower 48 of the united states

minneapolis is certainly colder, but also somewhat drier/sunnier.

i don't really think it's a stretch to say that there is a solid case for stating that great lakes cities probably have the worst** winter weather of larger metro areas in the lower 48 united states. i mean it gets noticebly worse just traveling north through illinois past springfield.

**anecodotal...but also weighting low temps, cloudiness, and precip highly

(i also don't believe that it should weigh in any consideration against chicago as the city makes up for that in my opinion)

As a native Detroiter that's now in Atlanta, I can tell you that having sunshine makes a huge difference in terms of how bearable winter weather is, as you have the heat from the sun's rays to temper the cold airmass on your skin.

Detroit sees quite a bit more cloudy days compared to other Midwest counterparts (Chicago, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, etc.) because it's downwind of the lakes. In fact, the only cities that are cloudier in the US are Portland and Seattle. So while the temps on paper may seem a bit more moderate, there's nothing to temper it. I talked to my family today back in Detroit and they said it's been gloomy since Monday, whereas aside from a heavy rain shower Monday morning, it's been clear and sunny here.


Below is the skycover on a typical winter day in the Midwest. If I ever moved back north, I would only consider cities south of I-80 and/or West of Lake Michigan for my own sanity (as someone who has Seasonal Affective Disorder).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

PEOPLE do but I'm not so sure businesses do. Weather, taxes and the overall cost of living may be the biggest factors for moving about the US for individuals. But so many other things effect the business climate and it depends on th type of business. Like I said above, being in a "right to work" state might be important to a labor-intensive manufacturer but less so to a tech/intellectual property company. Social climate is becoming increasingly important in tech especially to entrepreneur-founders like Bezos. Taxes, of course, are always important.

Let's face it: There's no place in Canada that attracts people from outside Canada for the weather like Hawaii, Southern CA and Florida do. Europe has its Mediterranean coastline and people have always headed there for the weather (among other things) but rainy Vancouver and the Maritimes are about as good as it gets in northern North America.

The Canadian Maritimes can have dreadful weather in winter, often worse than Quebec and Ontario because of the combination of the continental and ocean influences together. Unlike Vancouver, the Maritimes can get a tremendous amount of snow and ice.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by crosbyshow

Mtl is really bilingual. a lot of American people are nervous to visit Mtl because they think Montrealers don't speak any English. It is not the case. In a way , it is a great strengh of this city

Correct, Montrealers are now proudly bilingual. The only question is Quebec language laws applying to businesses and education.

[The North One]

That's not typical at all, lol. You're showing a forecast in a moment when winds are blowing east/southeast.

Grand Rapids gets the gloomy days/lake effect snow, Detroit is much too far east for that.

This fall has been amazing, past weeks have been high temperatures and very sunny. If you can't handle a day or two of partly cloudy or overcast weather then the problem is clearly you.

I would never in my right mind subject myself Atlanta's high summer temps, especially when they don't have any significant bodies of water nearby to cool off, no thank you. Also, seasonal affective disorder is majorly caused by fewer hours of daylight, not so much overcast skies. Last time I checked Atlanta gets shorter days in the winter.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by The North One

That's not typical at all, lol. You're showing a forecast in a moment when winds are blowing east/southeast.

Actually, a west wind is typical (as the Jet Stream moves from west to east).

Grand Rapids gets the gloomy days/lake effect snow, Detroit is much too far east for that.

Well sure, by Michigan standards that's true. But I wasn't comparing Detroit to Grand Rapids or anywhere else in Michigan.

This fall has been amazing, past weeks have been high temperatures and very sunny. If you can't handle a day or two of partly cloudy or overcast weather then the problem is clearly you.

I will agree the past few weeks of weather up there were awesome. But you're being disingenuous to not admit it was far from normal (it was record-breaking warmth with drought conditions).

I would never in my right mind subject myself Atlanta's high summer temps, especially when they don't have any significant bodies of water nearby to cool off, no thank you.

To each his/her own.

The *TEMPS* in Atlanta aren't that much different than Detroit's since Atlanta is higher up in elevation (they both average highs in the 80s), . Detroit also has its fair number of days with tropical-like humidity. The main difference is that Detroit sees more frequent pushes of drier/cooler air, whereas Atlanta's moisture levels tend to be stagnant.

Also, seasonal affective disorder is majorly caused by fewer hours of daylight, not so much overcast skies. Last time I checked Atlanta gets shorter days in the winter.

In Detroit, the sun rises at 8am and sets 5pm. In Atlanta, the sun rises at 7:30am and sets at 5:30pm.

And who cares if there are more hours of daylight on paper if the sun isn't shining.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

In Detroit, the sun rises at 8am and sets 5pm. In Atlanta, the sun rises at 7:30am and sets at 5:30pm.

And who cares if there are more hours of daylight on paper if the sun isn't shining.

I'm not sure where you're getting these exact times from but the sun setting at later in Atlanta is the effect of the Eastern time zone. Atlanta is slightly further west than Detroit yet they both have Eastern time. During winters in Boston, the sun will go down as early as 4:15. I doubt the sun rises in Atlanta much earlier, but that wasn't my point anyway.

It's not a matter of whether or not you care, you mentioned SAD, and SAD is generally believed to be caused by hours of daylight, not overcast days. Your elimination method is bogus.

I will agree the past few weeks of weather up there were awesome. But you're being disingenuous to not admit it was far from normal (it was record-breaking warmth with drought conditions).

Southeast Michigan never even had near drought conditions, and I'm not talking about the heatwave.

[SteveD]

So many people are confused by daylight hours. The closer you are to the equator, the LESS variation in seasonal daylight. Areas near the equator see very little variation.

Northern portions of the US see LONGER summer hours than the sunbelt and SHORTER winter hours then the sunbelt.

Chicago and NYC winter daylight is shorter than Atlanta. Chicago and NYC summer daylight is longer than Atlanta.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by The North One

I'm not sure where you're getting these exact times from but the sun setting at later in Atlanta is the effect of the Eastern time zone. Atlanta is slightly further west than Detroit yet they both have Eastern time. During winters in Boston, the sun will go down as early as 4:15. I doubt the sun rises in Atlanta much earlier, but that wasn't my point anyway.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/atlanta

Feel free to search for whatever city you want.

It's not a matter of whether or not you care, you mentioned SAD, and SAD is generally believed to be caused by hours of daylight, not overcast days. Your elimination method is bogus.

It's caused by less sunlight. Big difference from what you're suggesting.

Southeast Michigan never even had near drought conditions, and I'm not talking about the heatwave.

Drought conditions don't have to happen in one's backyard to enhance warming, but simply in the region where the airmass is being advected from (in this case, the drought was centered over IL / IA, basically WSW of the state). It works the same way as far as cold blasts that are enhanced by a deep snowpack in Canada when the airmass is advected from the NW.

That said, it was still abnormally dry even locally in Detroit.

BTW, what would you call days consistently in the 70s and 80s since late September until this past weekend if not a heatwave?

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by The North One

That's not typical at all, lol. You're showing a forecast in a moment when winds are blowing east/southeast.

Grand Rapids gets the gloomy days/lake effect snow, Detroit is much too far east for that.

This fall has been amazing, past weeks have been high temperatures and very sunny. If you can't handle a day or two of partly cloudy or overcast weather then the problem is clearly you.

I would never in my right mind subject myself Atlanta's high summer temps, especially when they don't have any significant bodies of water nearby to cool off, no thank you. Also, seasonal affective disorder is majorly caused by fewer hours of daylight, not so much overcast skies. Last time I checked Atlanta gets shorter days in the winter.

Oh Please give it a rest with the hot temps in ATL.. Currently 43 degrees, stunning Fall weather, and this summer was very rainy and mild, Atlanta is well over 1000 feet above sea level, in fact it was hotter in DC, Philly, NYC this summer..

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by bigstick

Oh Please give it a rest with the hot temps in ATL.. Currently 43 degrees, stunning Fall weather, and this summer was very rainy and mild, Atlanta is well over 1000 feet above sea level, in fact it was hotter in DC, Philly, NYC this summer..

The nice part about the cool weather is that, as I said before, it feels much warmer than it is because of the unabated sunlight.