London Roads

[K85]

It's all NIMBY-ism... They (a good chunk of em anyways) moved there knowing that noise was present. I'm all for a good local fight to fix an issue (I live beside McCormicks), however, it's the way they fought for it that bothers me.

As for the bridge, didn't know that Western would do anything. Thought it was strictly city

[GreatTallNorth2]

Building overpasses at train crosses ensures the trains will stay in London forever. This is bad news for London in every possible way. There should be a plan to move the trains outside of London, no matter what the cost is. The benefits will be tremendous. This could be our major infrastructure project - just like Windsor has the new highway and KW has LRT, we get funding to remove trains (industrial trains, not Via)

[K85]

That won't happen. Really won't. I can not see it ever happening. No sir. No sir-e-bob.

In seriousness though, the population of London has struggled for so long to get anything right done (Hale / Trafalgar OP as an example), the likelihood of no rail in city minus the essentials is about as 100% as myself becoming a dolphin.

[HillStreetBlues]

Londoners are backwards-thinking in a lot of ways...it's crazy to think that neighbours would oppose intensification in their neighbourhood. In most cities, you cheer that kind of stuff as adding residents and services to your neighbourhood, and increasing your property value.

Wharncliffe widening would be great- what date are we talking?

I agree with K85 both about the trains (not worth talking about), and also Airport Road/VMP. I know it's hard to do, but those people should have been sent regrets that they did not do their due diligence when purchasing their properties. But, what's done is done.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

Londoners are backwards-thinking in a lot of ways...it's crazy to think that neighbours would oppose intensification in their neighbourhood. In most cities, you cheer that kind of stuff as adding residents and services to your neighbourhood, and increasing your property value.

It's not just a London problem, it's a common problem in mid-size Canadian cities. Kingston has the exact same controversies over intensification.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The LFP reports the City is mulling over an EA to widen Wharncliffe Road under the CP overpass north of Oxford Street.

Nice to finally see some progress on this.

About bloody time, too. Now if they could do the same with the CN/CP overpass that sits at the intersection of Horton and Wharncliffe, traffic along Wharncliffe might flow a bit more smoothly for a change.

[haljackey]

I recall one of the major projects some first year UWO engineering students undertake is to design a new overpass for Warncliffe / CP, so there are a lot of proposals wroth considering. I've seen some pretty wacky stuff and others with amazing architecture. Not sure if they still do this however.
-I'm sure we'd all like to see the Warncliffe / CN overpass widened from 3 to 5 lanes as well.


For BRT, there is a London Transit thread. A new one could be started. It's too bad we don't have a moderator in this section who could bring all the BRT info from various threads to a new thread.

[middeljohn]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Highbury between 401 and Hamilton is referred to as "below grade expressway" as opposed to a freeway? I was under the impression if the only way to get on/off is via ramps, and if there is a median (concrete or grass ditch) then it's a freeway, not an expressway.

[haljackey]

Highbury has traffic lights at the 401 interchange. That's why it's not a full freeway.

I believe all municipal highways are referred to as expressways anyway. Although Highbury is the only one I can think of that has a speed limit of 100. The Expressways in Toronto, K-W and Hamilton are all 90. Not sure about Windsor's however.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Don't know how long Diamond Joe is going to be our mayor, but apparently Fontana is pushing to finally build a ring road around London. The Northern section of the ring would be... Highway 7! nearly 20 km north of the city limits, as Fontana is currently in talks with Middlesex Country for a north route..

While a ring road would be nice, a Highway 7 freeway as apart of a ring on its current route would be an absolute waste! While London is known for its sprawl it would take decades for any real development to get remotely close to current Highway 7. Joe must be really grasping at the straws being an election year...

CTV News Article: http://london.ctvnews.ca/fontana-delivers-state-of-the-city-address-1.1660095

While it might not be as far north as Highway 7, it's napkin sketched plans at best. Country doesn't seem to have much interest in it..

LPFress Article: http://www.lfpress.com/2014/01/28/talk-of-ring-road-a-surprise-to-middlesex-centre-mayor

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Don't know how long Diamond Joe is going to be our mayor, but apparently Fontana is pushing to finally build a ring road around London. The Northern section of the ring would be... Highway 7! nearly 20 km north of the city limits, as Fontana is currently in talks with Middlesex Country for a north route..

While a ring road would be nice, a Highway 7 freeway as apart of a ring on its current route would be an absolute waste! While London is known for its sprawl it would take decades for any real development to get remotely close to current Highway 7. Joe must be really grasping at the straws being an election year...

CTV News Article: http://london.ctvnews.ca/fontana-delivers-state-of-the-city-address-1.1660095

While it might not be as far north as Highway 7, it's napkin sketched plans at best. Country doesn't seem to have much interest in it..

LPFress Article: http://www.lfpress.com/2014/01/28/talk-of-ring-road-a-surprise-to-middlesex-centre-mayor

I love this discussion so much. Highway 7 is just hilarious, truly great. You’re right that even London’s past rate of sprawl would take decades to reach out there, making it useless until that time. There is also the fact that the sprawl simply cannot continue at its current pace, anyway: the City’s economic stagnation will slow it down, but we can’t continue to not-plan cities the way we have anyway. Environmentally, it’s completely unsustainable, and legislation in the coming decades at the provincial level will make Places to Grow seem very modest. London would just be stuck with a white elephant used by only a handful of motorists in Arva and Lucan.

Generally, driving everywhere is on the decline, and people increasingly want to live in places where driving is less of a need. And London is going to build a ring road almost fifty years too late, more than twenty kilometers from the city centre. Instead of investing in public transit and sustainable urban planning.

By the way, the OMB has said in the past (I am pretty sure on this) that any expressway would have to be within London’s borders. Sunningdale might have been acceptable (I still maintain that it is not needed, and Londoners have no idea what traffic actually looks like), but so much for that.

[middeljohn]

Might as well build an LRT line on highway 7, it'd be just as useless.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

Might as well build an LRT line on highway 7, it'd be just as useless.

Not if there are cattle cars included in the train.

[middeljohn]

Has anyone driven on Southdale lately? I'm curious to see how the job they did over the summer is holding up with this extreme cold we've had.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by middeljohn

Might as well build an LRT line on highway 7, it'd be just as useless.

East-west traffic volumes north of London simply don't warrant a freeway. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a super-2 Highway 7 from Stratford, connecting to Highway 402 near Strathroy. A much better idea for dealing with east-west traffic in North London is connecting Sarnia Road and Huron Street.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I drive down the newly widened section daily. Southdale is exponentially better than the 2 lane incarnation. Issues i see are, the road is very bumpy and proper lane lines havent not been painted. Once the final layers are applied i think those issues will be solved. As well there's a lack of busy bays (only 1 going eastbourd) considering the bus traffic. Overall significant improvement!

Originally Posted by middeljohn

Has anyone driven on Southdale lately? I'm curious to see how the job they did over the summer is holding up with this extreme cold we've had.

[ssiguy]

Ah the Road Road debate..........would it be a year in London without one?

HWY 7 would, of course, be useless for any commuters but it could also be surprisingly beneficial. If they were to create a branch off the 402 from Strathroy and have it head across the northern stretches of the city {ie Arva} and then head further north to/past Stratford to connect with the freeway section of HWY#7, Londoners could actually get to Kitchener or even Toronto faster than they do now if they leave in the North End. It's absurd to spend 30-45 minutes heading straight south to the 401 only to be at the same parallel when you reach Woodstock.

[haljackey]

Depending on how far north you live, it can be faster to take 7 and then 7/8 into Kitchener to reach the 401 to Toronto.

If the VMP was extended then bended to the west I think that would help.

[Honest Scientist]

Fully support a northern ring road (as well as VMP going to a full freeway configuration) as soon as possible. good idea to be part of a norther 402 - Toronto link.

But up at Highway 7 is insane!

It should be as close to the city as possible (along the old Highway 22 and then just north of Arva).

[Pimpmasterdac]

IMO the media may have misreported any highway being as north as Highway 7, as Fontana sprung this on everyone by the sounds of it. With few details provided they assumed current Highway 7 would be the same route as a freeway.

I made a quick paint version from google maps of a functioning ring road, that stays away from most developed areas. Have Highway 7 to branch off at 7 & 119 head southwest towards London. North of Lake Fanshawe go along Medway Road, meet up with Clarke/VMP, swing up to 8 Mile Rd. Go along 8 mile until Wonderland then swing back to Medway, until Highway 22, follow that to near 402. Proposed West End Freeway along Woodhull/Westdel Bourne. Similar to the 1966 Freeway Plan that was reject, now just several km north moreso.




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Although this doesn't do much. Current traffic problems are more IN London. Much bigger fish to fry. Rail lines constraining north-south routes (Wharncliffe, Adelaide, Richmond) and the Thames creating east-west missing links (Riverside-Dundas-King, Sarnia-Huron, Gainsborough-Windemere-Killaly). Either a Sarnia-Huron or a Gainsborough-Windemere-Killaly connection would provide more real relief for London commuters, but are a can of worms most politicians puss out on.