Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[lezard]

Originally Posted by deasine

Hey. Watch your attitude here. No need to be rude and arrogant.

Grief. how was I rude? The joke about the broken google?

[usog]

So basically the overwhelming opinion is that my bike *will* be stolen at least once at some point in the immediate future if I use it regularly around, wow that really encourages me to start turning to cycling as a way of getting around. You'd think that if there was such a consensus on this issue, people would see that investing in cracking down on bike theft would be a much higher priority for those cycling advocates in City Hall rather than collectively flipping the bird to everyone else.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by usog

So basically the overwhelming opinion is that my bike *will* be stolen at least once at some point in the immediate future if I use it regularly around, wow that really encourages me to start turning to cycling as a way of getting around. You'd think that if there was such a consensus on this issue, people would see that investing in cracking down on bike theft would be a much higher priority for those cycling advocates in City Hall rather than collectively flipping the bird to everyone else.

No one said your bike will get stolen. In fact in all my life I've never had a bike stolen. Some people just have bad luck and some don't.

There are actually bait bikes out there just like there are bait cars.

Also if you are not cycling because your worried your bike might get stolen. Then I would suggest that you don't drive, because your car just might get stolen as well. I'm not be sarcastic here if it sounds like. More just something to think about

[IanS]

Originally Posted by cabotp

No one said your bike will get stolen. In fact in all my life I've never had a bike stolen. Some people just have bad luck and some don't.

Yeah, my bike's never gone missing either, though I think that may have more to do with the fact that I have a cheap bike than anything else. Hardly worth stealing.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by racc

It really wasn't much of a battle. The owner of the pizza place is happy because the street is safer and more cyclists means more mouths to sell slices to. A cafe owner was a bit worried but I would be really surprised if his business suffers. The hotel was worried about customer drop-off but this is only an issue during rush hours. The hi-fi store's claim that they will lose a million dollars just isn't credible. Don't forget, the media always looks for controversy because it is good for ratings and clicks on web sites.

On Commercial Drive and Main Street, there are already a lot of cyclists shopping at business. Improving bicycle access will mean more customers for many businesses. Customers that have money because they are not wasting it on a car and parking.

In the end, people are clever and resourceful. A business owner can easily adapt to challenges far greater than the bike lane.

Rrright. I guess that's why the merchants on Commercial were so thrilled with days that banned cars from the street. Wait till parking is permanently lost and they'll be really happy.

As to Main, I'm sure the mayor will be his usual riveting speaker-self and convince merchants why the bike route two short blocks away is insufficient and he needs to rob their businesses of customers.

[jlousa]

We provided a secure bike room in our building after security came up as the number one reason why people don't ride to work in a survey we conducted a few years back, strangely our bike room has only 2-3 bikes normally while the outside racks have about 6-8 racks for no real increase in the totals. My take over the years have been that people will provide lots of reasons of why they don't cycle and after you address those reasons they will come up with others. Sure they will be some improvements but generally it boils down to humans are lazy but don't like admitting it.

[cornholio]

Rode my bike last night with the girlfriend from Charles park around the seawall to Stanly park, over the Burrard bridge and back along the seawall to the park. Pretty nice ride at 1am I must say, its so empty and you have the whole seawall all to your self. I would recommend doing a bike ride like that in the night to anyone who has is awake and bored at that time. Lot more enjoyable then the day time.

By the way I think I counted over 10 security guards in the olympic village all hanging out around the salt building, kind of a overkill I thought. Also I think I said it before but I will say it again, the sea wall around the Loympic village and the Olympic village in general is amazing, I really hope it all holds up and the maintenance wont be too high over the years. Kind of wish they could in the future improve the rest of the seawall to the Olympic village standards, I would hope though it atleast set a new standard and that Concord and the other developers that will be building the final section from BC Place to Science world will put the same effort in to it.

On a side note last night I got to watch two Racoons play and fight for atleast 30min right bellow one of the dock things at the Olympic village, they were right below me(2meters), it was pretty cool actually as they ignored us. I have seen million racoons before but this was the first time I could just stand above them and watch them play.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by jlousa

My take over the years have been that people will provide lots of reasons of why they don't cycle and after you address those reasons they will come up with others. Sure they will be some improvements but generally it boils down to humans are lazy but don't like admitting it.

Sure they are. Majority of people will always tend to do what's easiest and most convenient. And like it or not driving a car for majority of people is the most convenient option. It strikes the best balance between personal freedom, speed, cost, etc. You can make all kinds of arguments how you could make walking/cycling/transit part of your life if you really wanted to but that's just the thing - you need to make an effort to do it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Rode my bike last night with the girlfriend from Charles park around the seawall to Stanly park, over the Burrard bridge and back along the seawall to the park. Pretty nice ride at 1am I must say, its so empty and you have the whole seawall all to your self. I would recommend doing a bike ride like that in the night to anyone who has is awake and bored at that time. Lot more enjoyable then the day time.

By the way I think I counted over 10 security guards in the olympic village all hanging out around the salt building, kind of a overkill I thought. Also I think I said it before but I will say it again, the sea wall around the Loympic village and the Olympic village in general is amazing, I really hope it all holds up and the maintenance wont be too high over the years. Kind of wish they could in the future improve the rest of the seawall to the Olympic village standards, I would hope though it atleast set a new standard and that Concord and the other developers that will be building the final section from BC Place to Science world will put the same effort in to it.

On a side note last night I got to watch two Racoons play and fight for atleast 30min right bellow one of the dock things at the Olympic village, they were right below me(2meters), it was pretty cool actually as they ignored us. I have seen million racoons before but this was the first time I could just stand above them and watch them play.

How late at night are we talking? Interesting idea.

I agree with the Olympic village. Really fantastic seawall and project in general.

While cycling around Stanley Park last week my girlfriend and I had the rare experience of seeing an Otter stop on a rock to eat his still-living flounder (I think). He took a bunch of big bites until the fish was only 1/3rd left (the head and a little more), then left it on the rock. I kid you not, the fish tried to take about 3-4 more breaths. (!!!)

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by WBC

Sure they are. Majority of people will always tend to do what's easiest and most convenient. And like it or not driving a car for majority of people is the most convenient option. It strikes the best balance between personal freedom, speed, cost, etc. You can make all kinds of arguments how you could make walking/cycling/transit part of your life if you really wanted to but that's just the thing - you need to make an effort to do it.

Thus, to encourage more walking, cycling, and transit over car use, we must invest in and design infrastructure that makes these options easier and more convenient than driving. In a world of limited resources, there are opportunity costs all around us. Our infrastructure has been disproportionately supportive of driving for far too long. Right now, the clean transport options are playing catch up. Sometimes that means inconveniencing drivers at the expense of easier and move convenient alternatives.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

Thus, to encourage more walking, cycling, and transit over car use, we must invest in and design infrastructure that makes these options easier and more convenient than driving. In a world of limited resources, there are opportunity costs all around us. Our infrastructure has been disproportionately supportive of driving for far too long. Right now, the clean transport options are playing catch up. Sometimes that means inconveniencing drivers at the expense of easier and move convenient alternatives.

I would add that not only do we have to make walking, cycling, and taking transit to be easier and more convenient than driving. We should also work at making cycling and taking transit to be faster than driving in a good majority of the trips. That doesn't mean we should remove lane after lane of traffic. What it does mean is we shouldn't keep expanding our road network just so driving is a bit faster.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by The Vancouver Sun

Part of the delay in Vancouver has been over helmets. Montreal has no mandatory helmet law, meaning someone can pick up a bike and ride on a whim.

If Vancouver wanted to bow out of the provincial helmet law, it would have to lobby the province for an exclusion or find a way of supplying a helmet with each rental bike. Supplying helmets has been difficult because they have to be fitted to each individual and so far the Bixi system doesn't have a method of storing them.

It now appears, though, that Vancouver city staff have found a solution Down Under. Melbourne, which has a Bixi system, has a similar helmet law. Its simple solution has been to give a helmet to those who sign up for the bike-sharing network and also supply rental helmets at hotels and stores near the bicycle stations.

First of all I want to say YES! to the BIXI! Glad to see this moving forward. However, I'm not sure how this helmet thing is going to work out. I think lobbying the province for an exclusion to the helmet law would be a better idea. Even if a helmet were attached to each bike (let's forget about how that would be done) I don't see as many people using them if they needed helmets. I'll wear a helmet on a bike, but only if I'm shore riding or at Whistler on a mountain bike. If I am hopping on a bike from Yaletown to see my friend in the West End I'm not wearing a helmet. Either way, seeing this move forward is excellent.

Full Article here:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Van...#ixzz0rVQrtw7I

[IanS]

Originally Posted by awvan

First of all I want to say YES! to the BIXI! Glad to see this moving forward. However, I'm not sure how this helmet thing is going to work out. I think lobbying the province for an exclusion to the helmet law would be a better idea. Even if a helmet were attached to each bike (let's forget about how that would be done) I don't see as many people using them if they needed helmets. I'll wear a helmet on a bike, but only if I'm shore riding or at Whistler on a mountain bike. If I am hopping on a bike from Yaletown to see my friend in the West End I'm not wearing a helmet. Either way, seeing this move forward is excellent.

Full Article here:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Van...#ixzz0rVQrtw7I

A specific waiver for the BIXI might work, but, if I was the responsible party, I'd want a pretty strong, well marked exclusion clause and waiver of liability to be signed by anyone using the bikes.

[twoNeurons]

Easy solution. Amend the bike law. Any travel on separated bike lanes or roads 20km/h or less don't need helmets.

Central Valley Greenway
Seawall
Dunsmuir bike lanes
Burrard bike lanes
Any alleys/lanes (speed limit is 20km/h)

The All-of-BC Bike helmet law is silly when taken into context of a 15-year old kid in some small town riding in front of his house on the sidewalk ( gasp! ) requiring a helmet by law.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Easy solution. Amend the bike law. Any travel on separated bike lanes or roads 20km/h or less don't need helmets.

Speaking as someone who thinks helmets are a sensible thing and doesn't quite get why some folks are so vehemently against them, this idea makes a lot of sense to me. But they should go for 30km/h since that's the speed limit Vancouver seems to be applying to many of the non-arterial bike routes.

[WarrenC12]

Sorry, but helmets save lives. I'm fine with no helmet law if these people are also exempt from public health care.

I wasn't sure I'd like wearing a helmet to commute on my bike when I started doing it about 4 years ago. Now I don't think twice about putting it on even for a 10 min ride through town.

[twoNeurons]

Warren: Do you wear bicycle shorts on your commute? A funny question, perhaps... but it illustrates that there are different kinds of bicycles, different kinds of bicycle trips.

A helmet DOES make sense in the context of commuting along busy roads, but for the same reason that seatbelts aren't required in all situations in a vehicle, helmets shouldn't be a blanket requirement for all bicycle trips.

Tractors, motorbike sidecars, school buses, greyhound buses, vehicles driven in reverse, children under 16 [driving in town], garbage trucks, parking meter drivers and the like (if driven regularly under 40 km/h) all don't require seatbelts.

In the same manner, a one-size-fits all is a silly restriction to put on bikes.

Why should you have to wear a helmet along the seawall? Even along some traffic-calmed street which sees one car every 5-minutes... these are streets that have cars moving no faster than 30 km/h anyhow.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Warren: Do you wear bicycle shorts on your commute? A funny question, perhaps... but it illustrates that there are different kinds of bicycles, different kinds of bicycle trips.

Sure but not spandex. Believe me I've thought about wearing pants after a couple of wipeouts, but they've happened in the winter when I was already wearing longer pants.

We can agree to disagree I guess. I don't support any exceptions to the law.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

...A helmet DOES make sense in the context of commuting along busy roads, but for the same reason that seatbelts aren't required in all situations in a vehicle, helmets shouldn't be a blanket requirement for all bicycle trips...

...Why should you have to wear a helmet along the seawall? Even along some traffic-calmed street which sees one car every 5-minutes... these are streets that have cars moving no faster than 30 km/h anyhow.

Untrue. Indeed our beloved Councillor Meggs was cycling along a quiet residential street when he blew through a stop sign and had his life saved by his helmet.

[waterloowarrior]

In reality many times more deaths and serious injuries in Canada are from accidental falls than from crashing your bike... wearing helmets around the house and on icy sidewalks would save far more lives than mandatory bike helmets, especially for seniors. Head injuries are the most common cause of death in crashes with pedestrians too, so might as well just have a mandatory helmet at all times of the day except when you are sleeping (they would still be mandatory for bunk beds)