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  #841  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong but what we're seeing is a possible delay in funding towards the last year or two of the 5 year budget. They already committed to rapid transit in Hamilton for the 5 year budget.
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  #842  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 6:43 PM
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They've already committed for rapid transit in Hamilton for the first 15 years, not 5 years.

The city is hoping and praying Metrolinx will fund construction within the first 5 years of the 15 year plan.
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  #843  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2008, 11:55 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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this is kind of a joke. metrolinx says "We will fund capital costs, give us your proposals". we give them a proposal and they say "well you better have some money on the table". Which is it, are you funding it or not? not to mention this came out in a "Spectator editorial board meeting" - is that how metrolinx makes their policies official?

another thing - does metrolinx want to actively squelch the momentum we've built? why throw arround all this pessimism - especially to hamilton media which loves to leap on this king of thing. now we are going to hae to work twice as hard to keep public interest up, and anyone who was on the fence is going to read this simply as "higher taxes to cover our share of the funds". if they are still reviewing the budget then they should keep their yaps shut until they have real answers -- and maybe go behind the scenes and help the city figure out what it needs to do to get higher on the list before announcing this kind of crap

What makes me tired is that Hamilton, with limited assessment growth and limited tax income, bears the brunt of the social service costs for southern ontario - while many other s.on. communities pretty much have a social service budget that just about covers bus tickets to hamilton, where we take care of it for them. york region - a true bedroom community to toronto, has huge tax assessments and no real downtown core infrastructure to spend it on - and limited social service issues - so it's a bit easier for them to go ahead and spend money on assessments and such, where we have to pinch every single penny.

Call me cynical but this looks like the beginning of the same old hamilton shaft that we always get from the higher gov't - just from a different arm of the gov't this time. too bad they had to tease us first. ugh.
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  #844  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2008, 12:10 AM
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There have been hints that Hamilton could be required to pay for the streetscape design related to LRT. Which I think is reasonable, King St W (James to Bay) is worth around $3 million. So we're probably talking about $50 million.

Increase the HSR levy tax, perhaps 3%.
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  #845  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2008, 2:14 AM
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no way they'll get the deadbeat suburban councillors to pony up any real money for transit.
If it doesn't involve paving over greenspace or building concrete interchanges, they aren't interested in funding it.
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  #846  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 11:10 AM
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Last call for light rail
If the city doesn't act now, Metrolinx will fund other areas

October 20, 2008
Rob Faulkner; Andrew Dreschel
The Hamilton Spectator

Today the city's public works committee will decide if it wants staff to keep pushing for light rail transit (LRT) in talks with Metrolinx, the provincial transportation agency. Staff say that if Hamilton bows out of the bid, Metrolinx will fund rapid transit in other parts of the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area. Here's how thinking on LRT continues to evolve:

What does LRT look like?

Most systems run light, steel-wheeled vehicles on steel rails, powered by overhead electrical wires. A third rail line is a possible power source. LRT is usually at street level in mixed traffic, boarded by steps and guided by rails so drivers don't steer in traffic. Vehicles are often called trams, trolleys or streetcars.

How many lines are planned?

The city's February 2007 transportation master plan plotted three bus rapid transit lines: east-west in the lower city (B line), north-south on James (A line) and east-west, likely on the Linc.

In June 2007, MoveOntario 2020 plans cited rapid transit for Hamilton's A and B lines. But city plans have since grown to serve growth areas, hence the BLAST system.

The city concept now involves a B line, A line, T line (from near Centre Mall across Mohawk Road to Ancaster Meadowlands), the S line (Eastgate Square up Centennial to Rymal to the Ancaster Business Park), and a future L line (from downtown to Waterdown) creating an inter-regional link.

Metrolinx, in its draft regional transportation plan, identified the B line (a top 15 priority for the first 15 years), the A line (within the first 15 years), the T line (within 25 years) and the S line (beyond 25 years).

The city may ask Metrolinx to plan the S line ahead of the T line, due to road work planned on Centennial and Rymal in the next five years.

Why the focus on the B line?

Metrolinx shortlisted the B line, and the city has also focused on it. The HSR already runs an express B line bus route, which doesn't climb the Mountain, so it's thought to be able to deliver the best ridership in an affordable way. A line express buses start in fall 2009.

What structures will we see?

The city sees the Stuart Street CN rail yard as a possible LRT maintenance site. There is talk of a downtown transit hub; the B and A lines will intersect. LRT station locations are not determined.

What is the city doing next?

If authorized today, city staff will want to see the B line's analysis, functional design, detailed design and construction appear in Metrolinx's 2009-13 budget.

The city wants to start immediately on Phase 3 of its feasibility study before picking a route for the A line. This involves whether to build a $100-million tunnel so LRT can stay on steep James Mountain Road, or detour 3.5 km to the Claremont Access and miss hubs like St. Joseph's Hospital and the Hunter Street GO station. Phase 3 will look at technology, ridership, costs, etc.

What is the timeline?

Metrolinx releases its 2009-13 budget in November and says a benefits case analysis of Hamilton's B line could be done in 2009. The city says shovels could be in the ground in 2011.

What about environmental assessments?

Hamilton has not done environmental assessments but says some of its work so far, like public consultation, will fulfil part of the EA process. The city still has to study archaeology, alternate routes, and more.

Hold onto your transit expectations

Rob MacIsaac has always been a pretty good friend to Hamilton.

As mayor of Burlington, he backed this city's push for fair social-services funding from the province.

As chair of Metrolinx, the high-powered transportation authority for Hamilton and Toronto, he says we'll always have a pal at the table as long as he's at its head.

One of the responsibilities of friendship is, of course, to tell hard truths, even if the other person doesn't necessarily want to hear them.

That's what MacIsaac did during last week's discussion with The Spec's editorial board about Hamilton's rapid transit ambitions.

In the face of this community's escalating excitement about light rail, MacIsaac tried to manage expectations without dashing cold water on our enthusiasm.

Frankly, it was a timely intervention.

Let's back up a touch.

We all know that Hamilton is on deck to receive provincial funding for either a new bus or light-rail transit system.

And we all know that a light-rail system for an east-west and north-south route seems to be this community's runaway preference.

Inner city rail has fired the hopes and imagination of both public and politicians, with Mayor Fred Eisenberger avidly advocating it as a silver bullet economic development tool.

Whether we end up getting fancy new bus or sexy light-rail lines will be decided after Metrolinx studies the two alternatives.

But next month, the transportation authority is expected to release its first five-year budget, identifying which projects across its jurisdiction will be funded first.

Hamilton is confidently hoping there's going to be money in it enabling us to start putting shovels in the ground by 2011.

The message from MacIsaac is that's not likely to happen.

Quite simply, he told The Spec that since planning for projects in communities such as Toronto and York Region is ahead of Hamilton, they'll go to the front of the line.

Yes, Hamilton has been identified as a priority by Metrolinx. And, yes, Metrolinx is impressed with the work the city has already done and the level of public engagement.

But MacIsaac evidently is worried our expectations have soared to the point where people will be disappointed when the capital budget comes out and we're not included in the first round of handouts.

True, in a subsequent interview, MacIsaac, straining to be tactful, did suggest funding for 2011 wasn't impossible.

But you'd have to be wilfully blind not to see that once again he was plainly signalling that 2012 or 2013 is a much more realistic timeline
.

Clearly the early years of Metrolinx's budget are going to be tight.

At the moment, it only has available $11.5 billion to fund a $50-billion regional transportation plan that is supposed to stretch over 25 years.

And, bear in mind, whatever Metrolinx recommends has to be approved by the provincial government, which is facing budget challenges of its own.

That goes a long way in explaining both MacIsaac's attempt to tamp down unrealistic expectations and his suggestion Hamilton should start putting money aside for the project.

As he told The Spec, Metrolinx will only be funding "bare bones" rapid-transit lines.

There was no mistaking his meaning: If this or any other city wants things like gold-plated transit stops or plush seating, they'd better be prepared to pay for the upgrades themselves.

In other words, if Hamilton wants to put its own value-added stamp on the project, then it has to use its money to shape its dreams.

None of this should be cause for hand-wringing. It's still very good news that rapid transit is coming our way.

All MacIsaac has done is give us a little reality check, the kind you might expect from a friend.
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  #847  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
What makes me tired is that Hamilton, with limited assessment growth
Limited? Try ZERO assessment growth for 2008, according to the city's own projections.
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  #848  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 2:28 PM
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good thing the east end and east mountain are 'booming' with growth contributing to that stellar assessment rate this year. Red Hill is finally saving us as predicted.
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  #849  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 7:59 PM
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  #850  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 8:42 PM
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Hamilton to push for LRT


October 20, 2008
By Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator

The city’s public works committee voted unanimously today to have staff push for light rail transit in the Metrolinx 2009-13 budget.


Councillors backed a staff recommendation, considered a move toward implementation, only after being assured that Hamilton will not pay for the cost of building what could become a $1.1 billion light rail transit (LRT) project.


It was a vote of support for a system staff say is crucial to solve future gridlock, helping the city’s image and environment, and insuring economic growth.


The most pressing priority for the city, and a shortlisted project for Metrolinx, is LRT along the east-west B line between Eastgate Square and McMaster University.


Staff also want planning and design of the north-south A line — which requires study due to its climb up the Mountain — in the Metrolinx budget due out this fall.

http://www.thespec.com/News/article/453050
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  #851  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Awesome....1 year ago, who would have thought that we'd be endorsing LRT within 5 years?? great stuff.
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  #852  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2008, 11:13 PM
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Has anyone figured out how many busses will be eliminated even just the B Line Route regardless which route they put this?

And I wonder if they would be able to do the Parkdale route due to the lift bridge.
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  #853  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 1:59 AM
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Has anyone figured out how many busses will be eliminated even just the B Line Route regardless which route they put this?

And I wonder if they would be able to do the Parkdale route due to the lift bridge.
as far as I understand the only buses eliminated will be the B-Line buses. Local service on King, Delaware etc....will continue.
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  #854  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 2:07 AM
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It's possible in the future they might start doing other routes though. Maybe not all routes, probably just the busier routes. I guess time will tell.
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  #855  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 3:39 AM
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It's possible in the future they might start doing other routes though. Maybe not all routes, probably just the busier routes. I guess time will tell.
Hopefully they replace all of the buses with LRT...and subways (not the restaurant) Lol heres to dreaming...
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  #856  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 11:10 AM
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All on board for light rail line
Committee wants city staff to chase funding from first Metrolinx budget

October 21, 2008
Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator

Hamilton has taken a united, symbolic step to show its support for light rail transit -- as long as Metrolinx pays for a new system.

The city's public works committee voted unanimously yesterday to let staff push Metrolinx to include an east-west light rail transit (LRT) line in the provincial Crown agency's 2009-13 budget.

It came amid concern from several councillors that the city should not pay for LRT, and that city staff must report back if Metrolinx will not be paying all capital costs.

"It represents a commitment by this council to light rail. That's clear. Our focus is not going to be bus rapid transit on the A and B line," said Mayor Fred Eisenberger, Hamilton's representative on the Metrolinx board.

Councillors backed a six-point recommendation that staff view as a shift from a focus on feasibility studies to a focus on implementation. Its main points include:

* Staff to work with Metrolinx to get functional design, detail design and construction of LRT on the east-west B line in the agency's 2009-13 budget. (Functional design looks at whether a project can be built; detail design looks at how to build, with enough detail that a job can go out for tender.)

* Staff to work with Metrolinx to get planning and design of the north-south A line LRT, up the Mountain, done in conjunction with construction of LRT on the B line.

* Staff to report back after the release of Metrolinx's final regional transportation plan, investment strategy and 2009-13 budget.

Staff say LRT is a system that can resolve expected gridlock in the years to 2031, improve the city's image and environment, and inspire the kind of economic growth that Hamilton craves.

"We keep saying we are ready to move forward. Today's unanimous vote really is one more step in proving our readiness, and moving to get shovels in the ground," said Jill Stephen, the manager of strategic planning who presented the report.

The priority for the city, and a shortlisted project for Metrolinx, is LRT along the east-west B-line between Eastgate Square and McMaster University. Staff estimate it will cost $650 million.

Staff plan to do a feasibility study of the A line, to run north-south, due to questions about which route it will take and which technology will suit the escarpment climb.

So far, the city has spent $270,000 of the $500,000 set aside for studies and outreach on rapid transit in the 2008 budget. The work has involved about one year of combined work by three staff.

Hamilton says it can have shovels in the ground for LRT by 2011; Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac has hinted that Hamilton funding will surface in the latter years of the 2009-13 budget, coming this fall.

In response to east-end Councillor Sam Merulla's question about Hamilton's future costs, public works general manager Scott Stewart said he expects Metrolinx to fund all of LRT's capital costs.

Details must be firmed up, Stewart said, to understand Metrolinx's reference to funding the "lion's share" or a "bare bones" system.
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  #857  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 6:25 PM
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Hopefully they replace all of the buses with LRT...and subways (not the restaurant) Lol heres to dreaming...
Not likely. I would be extremely happy if there where 4 lines in 25 years. The 2 to 3 billion it would cost for 4 lines could by a lot of buses.

I think you will see more bus routes not less. The only ones that will disappear are the BRT lines that the LRT’s replaces. I think you will see more routes like the #12 Wentworth route. The routes in the area of the LRT will loop around the LRT stops or transportation nodes feeding the LRT. This would make sense. You would get on your local bus and transfer to the LRT. You would then go to your destination or transfer to another LRT/BRT route or another local bus to your final destination.
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  #858  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2008, 7:17 PM
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If the first two LRT lines are an unparallelled success, the chances of more LRT, rather than BRT, lines being built will increase. Were all the improvements to Vancouver's Skytrain all part of the original plan? Unlikely, the first lines were probably all they intended to build, but their success paved the way for the expansion.
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  #859  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2008, 5:45 PM
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They're discussing funding for light rail over on the Spec blog. Mostly sane comments so far, but could always use more sanity in this town.

My favourite: "If the residents and politicians in Hamilton don't believe the City is worth investing in, why should anybody else??? Penny wise, pound foolish seems to be a civic mantra right now and it's easy to see the results."

http://thespec.typepad.com/specthrea...mentsiscussing
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  #860  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2008, 3:49 PM
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Am I reading the route map right? Is the 41 the only bus that goes from downtown to Limeridge Mall and I have to go all the way to bloomin' Ottawa to catch it?? Nothing closer to Wentworth/Victoria at all? What about from the centre of town?
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