Canadian Retail Thread

[MolsonExport]

Been there numerous times (well, the flagship Lotte in Seoul). Yes, I would put it up with the Japanese Dept. Stores.

[Loco101]

It's very hard to find classy shopping in North America today. Up until the late 2000s you could find it even in smaller cities like where I live. We used to have Bucovetsky's which was started by an immigrant Russian-Jewish family. It had three floors and had formal and casual clothing, footwear, housewares, food products, kitchenware and other things. The employees were top-notch, always dressed up and friendly. It was just so nice to have the store as a local option.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It's very hard to find classy shopping in North America today. Up until the late 2000s you could find it even in smaller cities like where I live. We used to have Bucovetsky's which was started by an immigrant Russian-Jewish family. It had three floors and had formal and casual clothing, footwear, housewares, food products, kitchenware and other things. The employees were top-notch, always dressed up and friendly. It was just so nice to have the store as a local option.

It depends what you mean by a "classy shopping experience". In smaller cities, I definitely agree that things are worse. It's not just online shopping, but deindustrialization and the collapse of medium-sized family-run companies based out of small towns. Those companies usually supported a few dozen, very well-paid senior managers and their families who, when combined with the low cost of living in these towns, had a lot of disposable income on their hands and they shopped locally.

In big cities, I think that upscale shopping options have never been better. Bloor-Yorkville and Yorkdale mall have all the luxury brands you'd expect in New York or Paris, and there's a lot of independent boutiques selling upscale clothes along Queen West and Ossington that didn't exist a generation ago.

Some things have changed just because both tastes and business models have changed. A tailored suit is not something everyone needs to have in their wardrobe anymore, but if you want one, you can get one made fairly cheaply by visiting a showroom like Indochino or Suit Supply where they take your measurements and have the suit made-to-measure in Asia. There are also traveling suit salesmen based out of Hong Kong that rent conference rooms in hotels in major cities across Canada for about a week a year where they show you fabric swatches, take your measurements and, make the suit somewhere in Asia to ship to you directly.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Whether the Bay is one of the oldest companies in the world that was part of our history is somewhat irrelevant, though. The government should step in if an important sector of the economy is under threat of being monopolized or is getting taken over by foreign interests. You can't make that case for the Bay, which is foreign owned, and in a sector like fashion retail, which is not strategically important, and where Canadians don't exactly lack for choice.

I would change the "don't" to "didn't". We do lack department store choices now.

With that said, the Canadian government should've stopped foreigners from owning it in the first place. Greed for the "easy" greenback results in what Canada is experiencing right now, and in a much broader sense.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Vin

I would change the "don't" to "didn't". We do lack department store choices now.

With that said, the Canadian government should've stopped foreigners from owning it in the first place. Greed for the "easy" greenback results in what Canada is experiencing right now, and in a much broader sense.

I don't disagree.

But the management of major department stores in Canada has largely not adapted to current consumer trends. We only bail out poor decision-making when it comes to sectors like auto.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I don't disagree.

But the management of major department stores in Canada has largely not adapted to current consumer trends. We only bail out poor decision-making when it comes to sectors like auto.

There was no path forward for these department stores for 2 reasons:

Department stores were doomed when the middle class begun eroding in the 90's. You just cannot compete with fast fashion retailers (Old Navy, H&M) or big box stores (Walmart, Lowblaws, Costco) unless you massively skimp on quality, especially considering most people nowadays are carrying less disposable income. Having access to cheap labour (Temporary Foreign Workers) is a massive plus for many apparel retailers).

What doomed the Bay specifically was the fact an equity group purchased it with the sole intent of taking the real estate. The fact the stores were not renovated or maintained the past 10-15 years is damning evidence that this was the intended plan from the equity group. The retail portion of Hudson Bay Company did try to modernize their product range in the late 2000's to appeal to Millennials but were unable to get the price point down to a reasonable level.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

In big cities, I think that upscale shopping options have never been better. Bloor-Yorkville and Yorkdale mall have all the luxury brands you'd expect in New York or Paris, and there's a lot of independent boutiques selling upscale clothes along Queen West and Ossington that didn't exist a generation ago.

I don't consider myself knowledgeable about shopping and I am open to any conclusion but I wonder if Vancouver really is doing better than a few years ago. Nordstrom is gone now and the Bay is closing. Pacific Centre doesn't really seem to have that much new stuff and I'm not sure other areas like 4th or Main Street are that great for shopping. I don't really like MetroTown and I avoid it. Simons is unfortunately in North Van and it's a nightmare to get out there. It feels like downtown retail is in the doldrums a bit and the neighbourhood commercial areas mostly have new restaurants with a lot of it being Asian fast food.

I sort of wonder if any of Vancouver is improving that much these days, with the exception of the Main Street area. There was an earlier era, maybe the 1990's to 2010's, when it felt like Vancouver was far ahead of other Canadian cities and was changing quickly.

[someone123]

I'm even less in touch with the retail situation in Halifax but I feel like it has improved hugely since the era when I lived there. It had almost no higher end stores to speak of back in the 2000's and areas that used to be upscale had turned into low end mom and pop operations, pool halls, etc. Now there is a clearly upscale mall (HSC which has Simons) and upscale storefront area (with relatively new stores like Lululemon; I don't care for them but they are major brands that didn't exist previously), with more shops sprinkled around a wider area beyond that. Halifax is in sort of a strange small-to-medium retail category and being a regional centre tends to get similar stores as Winnipeg or Quebec City.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't consider myself knowledgeable about shopping and I am open to any conclusion but I wonder if Vancouver really is doing better than a few years ago. Nordstrom is gone now and the Bay is closing. Pacific Centre doesn't really seem to have that much new stuff and I'm not sure other areas like 4th or Main Street are that great for shopping. I don't really like MetroTown and I avoid it. Simons is unfortunately in North Van and it's a nightmare to get out there. It feels like downtown retail is in the doldrums a bit and the neighbourhood commercial areas mostly have new restaurants with a lot of it being Asian fast food.

I sort of wonder if any of Vancouver is improving that much these days, with the exception of the Main Street area. There was an earlier era, maybe the 1990's to 2010's, when it felt like Vancouver was far ahead of other Canadian cities and was changing quickly.

Feels like Downtown Vancouver peaked between 2009-2012. Robson had many more higher end retail and boutique shops along with diverse food options. Granville and Gastown was massively better as well. You always had elements

The homelessness, drug crisis and then COVID really destroyed the downtown retail and restaurant scene. Businesses have to put up with some ridiculous nonsense including constant thefts and vandalism. Non chain restaurants and smaller retailers cannot handle increasing rents along with insurance costs and are moving out of the downtown core.

I also feel like the region has shifted away from the concentric city model. You are seeing many hubs popping along the major transit lines which are incorporating restaurants and retail outlets. There's less of an appeal of commuting to the core of downtown to experience the scene.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Feels like Downtown Vancouver peaked between 2009-2012. Robson had many more higher end retail and boutique shops along with diverse food options. Granville and Gastown was massively better as well. You always had elements

The homelessness, drug crisis and then COVID really destroyed the downtown retail and restaurant scene. Businesses have to put up with some ridiculous nonsense including constant thefts and vandalism. Non chain restaurants and smaller retailers cannot handle increasing rents along with insurance costs and are moving out of the downtown core.

I also feel like the region has shifted away from the concentric city model. You are seeing many hubs popping along the major transit lines which are incorporating restaurants and retail outlets. There's less of an appeal of commuting to the core of downtown to experience the scene.

All true.

I think this suburban hub model isn't that great. A lot of them just have the same old stuff and it is almost like people are living in smaller, more suburban cities. If Vancouver had developed more along the fringes of downtown (e.g. East Van density in place of Burnaby or Surrey) it might have been more interesting. It would be one thing if Vancouver were some megacity that needed these hubs but they're being built mainly because people didn't want density and infrastructure in the areas where it would have grown organically.

The drug and street disorder problem is just bad and will cause damage as it persists. Even in nice areas you see brand new developments and if there's a seating area there will be homeless people on drugs there with puke all around them. I hesitated to go to one place near where I lived a while ago because every second or third time a woman would start screaming at me. I feel bad for the TFWs who got hired to work in these places.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'm even less in touch with the retail situation in Halifax but I feel like it has improved hugely since the era when I lived there. It had almost no higher end stores to speak of back in the 2000's and areas that used to be upscale had turned into low end mom and pop operations, pool halls, etc. Now there is a clearly upscale mall (HSC which has Simons) and upscale storefront area (with relatively new stores like Lululemon; I don't care for them but they are major brands that didn't exist previously), with more shops sprinkled around a wider area beyond that. Halifax is in sort of a strange small-to-medium retail category and being a regional centre tends to get similar stores as Winnipeg or Quebec City.

I'm personally not an upscale shopper but from my outside observation it seems like the HSC went upscale and and is very nice and fancy after the big reno while the SGR area went slightly downscale with the loss of the Mills Brothers. But SGR got it's own littke reno to offset some of the loss so it changed less than HSC.

Mic Mac still seems pretty middle of the road but we'll see how the closure of HBC affects it.

[Acajack]

Large department stores on main downtown shopping streets are a classic feature of big city grandeur around the world. You know the feeling you get you walk in and the first thing you see is a large shiny perfume and makeup section staffed by attractive women?

I realize that perhaps the business case for this type of thing no longer works in Canada's cities, but it's going to be really tough to fill the void left by this retail transition. (It also seems that they're faring a bit better in other parts of the world.)

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Large department stores on main downtown shopping streets are a classic feature of big city grandeur around the world. You know the feeling you get you walk in and the first thing you see is a large shiny perfume and makeup section staffed by attractive women?

I realize that perhaps the business case for this type of thing no longer works in Canada's cities, but it's going to be really tough to fill the void left by this retail transition. (It also seems that they're faring a bit better in other parts of the world.)

Yes absolutely. That's why I was upset at the idea of them disappearing completely but not at just having a few store in prime locations like major city centres. In fact, having a bunch of stores in random suburban malls actually makes a chain seem less special to me. The main reason is that they're obviously less rare when there's more of them. But it also means that the store location doesn't say much about the location in terms of it being prime or desirable if they'll stick one in practically any old place.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'm personally not an upscale shopper but from my outside observation it seems like the HSC went upscale and and is very nice and fancy after the big reno while the SGR area went slightly downscale with the loss of the Mills Brothers. But SGR got it's own littke reno to offset some of the loss so it changed less than HSC.

Mills was pretty small though and got replaced by an upscale mixed use building which I'd guess has more space available at higher rents. Across the street there was another similar building with more retail space (and stores like Fjallraven). I liked the older buildings more, but the new ones probably have more high end retail, and the ability to add larger and more valuable storefronts is part of why this turnover happened. The little row of colourful wood rowhouses got torn down nearby too which is another loss but again likely will have high end shops. I wish the new buildings would have some character like the old ones, and somehow relate to the locality they are built in. In an alternative universe all of these developments could have been very distinctive, character-filled, and attractive instead of embodying monochromatic 2020's mall aesthetics.

Not sure about these days but SGR used to be a big outlier for commercial storefront rents in Canada; one of the more expensive streets in the country. It was not on par with high end streets in major cities but most medium-sized North American cities don't have a street that expensive or vibrant.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Been there numerous times (well, the flagship Lotte in Seoul). Yes, I would put it up with the Japanese Dept. Stores.

Yes so helpful and courteous, they find your size, and package it well and hand it to you and make you feel like you've had an experience. Shinsegae was also amazing, even in the high-end spots within the dept stores like LV or Dior etc they will answer your questions and offer you samples or whatever they can, even when you tell them you're just looking. But they treat you as they would those buying.

Compared to the Bay, ugh, so many items didn't have the proper prices or the signage was not properly placed or written so the item you like and go to purchase is not part of the promotion, so then you gotta put it back, and you feel like they are looking down on you. Thats assuming you could find someone who worked there, staff was seriously lacking. the downtown Van store had in the men's dept brands that staffed their own sections and I remember there was a cashier desk and the only with an actual person at it and I said can I get this here and he looked at it and said no, this is only for whatever brand it was, which I understand but there was no helpfulness or him simply saying you can take it to that desk there or whatever, just a bad experience.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by someone123

All true.

I think this suburban hub model isn't that great. A lot of them just have the same old stuff and it is almost like people are living in smaller, more suburban cities. If Vancouver had developed more along the fringes of downtown (e.g. East Van density in place of Burnaby or Surrey) it might have been more interesting. It would be one thing if Vancouver were some megacity that needed these hubs but they're being built mainly because people didn't want density and infrastructure in the areas where it would have grown organically.

The drug and street disorder problem is just bad and will cause damage as it persists. Even in nice areas you see brand new developments and if there's a seating area there will be homeless people on drugs there with puke all around them. I hesitated to go to one place near where I lived a while ago because every second or third time a woman would start screaming at me. I feel bad for the TFWs who got hired to work in these places.

Really bad enforcement all around, contributing to the deterioration. Folks pretending to have bleeding hearts make the situation way worse.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Vin

I would change the "don't" to "didn't". We do lack department store choices now.

With that said, the Canadian government should've stopped foreigners from owning it in the first place. Greed for the "easy" greenback results in what Canada is experiencing right now, and in a much broader sense.

The owners failed HBC. One only needs to look at our sheltered banks to see that a Canadian ownership group wouldn't have done any better or been more patriotic in their financial decisions.

A department store is antithesis of boutiques on a high street. The loss of the department store is the loose connection to the business that monopolised Canadian fur trade. Will anyone miss The Bay store 5 years from now?

[Loco101]

Very few people will miss The Bay. It had been in decline for quite a long time. It wasn't somewhere people wanted to go anymore. I was in the store in Barrie earlier this month and the clothing was really just Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren. I could just go to the outlet stores of those brands. They could have made their exclusive items more interesting but no, there just wasn't very much of that. Whoever has been running the company knows very little about retail.

[casper]

Well we may have a Vancouver Island company looking at taking over some of the HBC stores.

Island billionaire says she wants to acquire ‘dozens’ of Hudson’s Bay stores

The billionaire owner of two Vancouver Island shopping malls has declared her intent to purchase the ailing Hudson’s Bay department store chain, outlining her plan in a series of videos posted on a Chinese social network. Weihong Liu is chair of Central Walk, a Nanaimo-based company that owns Mayfair shopping centre in Victoria and Woodgrove Centre in Nanaimo.

In a video posted Thursday by Qin on Chinese social network RedNote, Liu said she feels the sadness of Canadians who are witnessing the crumbling of one of the country’s oldest businesses and has decided to make a bid for the business.

“Everyone has a ­responsibility to unite and invigorate the retail industry, invigorate ­Canada and to solve the employment issues that are coming,” she said in Mandarin, adding that an economic crisis is coming for ­Canada. “If the Bay closes, we’ll be like Detroit — just ruins.

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...tores-10483825

[SpongeG]

Woodgrove Centre for sale after billionaire owner announced intention to buy Hudson's Bay stores
The listing comes a little more than a week after Woodgrove Centre’s billionaire owner, Weihong Liu, announced on social media her intention to buy “dozens” of Hudson’s Bay stores.
Darron Klosterr
April 10, 2025



Vancouver Island’s largest ­shopping mall is up for sale.

The listing for Nanaimo’s Woodgrove Centre was posted by Colliers International on Tuesday, a little more than a week after the mall’s billionaire owner, Weihong Liu, announced on social media her intention to buy “dozens” of Hudson’s Bay stores.

Liu is chair of Nanaimo-based company Central Walk, which also owns Mayfair Shopping Centre in Victoria, Tsawwassen Mills outlet mall on the Lower Mainland and Arbutus Ridge Golf Club in Cobble Hill.

Colliers senior vice-president Morgan Dyer, based in Vancouver, said the asking price for Woodgrove is not being made public.

B.C. Assessment records show the value of Woodgrove properties along Island Highway North at about $230 million.

The 775,000-square-foot Woodgrove Centre is spread out over 62 acres in Nanaimo’s north end. It has more than 140 stores — including one of the Hudson’s Bay locations being liquidated across the country.

Colliers said the offering process to potential buyers requires a confidentiality agreement where qualified parties will be provided with information and documents on the property.

Dyer did not provide any specifics, but called the sale “a rare opportunity” and said that there has been interest from potential buyers.

The Times Colonist reached out to Central Walk for comment but did not immediately hear back.

Woodgrove opened in 1981 and is anchored by a Walmart Supercentre, Save-On-Foods, Avalon Cinema, Toys R Us, Sport Chek, Winners and Indigo along with the Bay.

Colliers said in its sales brochure that nearly six million shoppers visit the mall every year.

Central Walk acquired Woodgrove in 2020. The following year, Central Walk acquired Mayfair Shopping Centre.

Liu outlined her plan to buy Hudson’s Bay stores in a series of videos posted on Chinese social network RedNote, and indicated plans to hold a news conference on April 18.

The Bay filed for creditor protection in March with debts at more than $1 billion.

...

https://www.timescolonist.com/busine...tores-10503386