Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by shakman

Underground parking is also much more expensive than above grade. From experience, when it comes to "value engineering" of a project, aka cost cutting to get a better financial deal from investors, bringing parking from below to above grade is one of the first things on the list; as well as, unfortunately, the quality of materials used on a facade.

I did not know the SLC area had a high water table. CCC seems to have a deep hole. I believe the entire parking for CCC is below grade. Correct?

Well most of Salt Lake doesn't have watertable issues. Its my understanding that its just the Gateway area- near the river. Anyone know for certain? I could imagine that getting out towards the airport there might be similar problems.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by cololi

They were smart and decided to revamp their proposal to be economically viable and to fit into the community. The difference between Red Mt. and Mecham are striking. Red Mt. worked with the City upfront, Mecham didn't. Red Mt. told the City they were going to revamp over a year ago, mecham insisted on moving forward without any clue whether he could actually pull off what he was proposing.

If I remember correctly Red Mt. is a developer with a long list of experience in California. More specifically the Pasadena area. I remember thinking "Pasadena, that's a good omen." Pasadena has to be one of the most attractively developed and maintained communities in the country.

[Future Mayor]

The issues facing putting the soccer stadium in the CBD were for the most part due to our buddy Earl Holding. The city wanted to anchor the south end of DT with the soccer stadium and place it on the block bordered by 600 S 700 S Main St and W. Temple. Earl Holding owns that block as well as the block that is on the other side of Little America.

This block already has a Trax platform planned for and is mostly occupied by vacant car lots. Earl simply refused to even work with the city and Checketts to sell the property. I know legal issues come into play, but I think the city should have Eminent Domained the property, after all they did eminent domain on the entire Grand America block (less Flower Patch, because they fought it) so I figure it was time for the city to get it's back scratched.

Once the city realized they couldn't find a suitable location with a willing land owner in downtown, they developed the Fairpark concept. Yes it would have done a lot toward revitalizing the area, however Checketts also wasn't a big supporter of it being there. I think had the airport Trax line already been complete or close to completion that he may have considered it.

[cololi]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

Well most of Salt Lake doesn't have watertable issues. Its my understanding that its just the Gateway area- near the river. Anyone know for certain? I could imagine that getting out towards the airport there might be similar problems.

Most of Salt lake actually has ground water issues. The Judge Memorial High School football field is located on a fairly steep slope with a huge retaining wall to level it. It collapsed due to ground water. At Trolley Square the water table is anywhere from 9 to 20 feet. All of downtown has a high water table. The universe project at the U has the same issue.

I believe (a geologist told me one day, but not 100% sure I am remembering it correctly) the issue is primarily that the clay that is predominant in our soil holds a ton of water and water has a difficult time passing through it, so it just kind of sits there. even in our dry climate, water cannot percolate through the clay quick enough before being reloaded. The water travels through fissures where it can and it flows basically to the low spot of the valley. So it isn't a true water table issue, but a ground water issues that acts a lot like a water table issue. Luckily, in most cases we don't get enough water to saturate the clay and cause collapsing/sliding.

You can design around it by building what amounts to a giant bathtub to put your parking in and then pump the water out. It is expensive and has long term operating expenses. It is also one of the reasons why there are so many above grade parking structures in SLC.

Gateway parking has anywhere from 2-3 levels of parking. they pump water out pipes under the lowest parking level.

[shakman]

Thanks for the explanation. I have definitely learned something new that I can take to work.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

I was watching this video on youtube about an earthquake proof building in Mexico city and how they constructed it today with a friend. We should really look into that stuff as a state. I guess in nineteen eighty five they had a huge seven point eight earthquake and the employees in this building didn't even realize it.

[Urban_logic]

Murray Central TRAX??

I was riding TRAX into town this morning and noticed a train that said "Murray Central" as its end destination. This is something that I was just saying TRAX should do not too long ago on the SLC Transit News thread - have more trains running during peak-times that don't go the full route to alleviate train congestion. Looks like they are doing just that. Great thinking UTA!!



Here are a couple pics I snapped of CCC:

[cololi]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

I was watching this video on youtube about an earthquake proof building in Mexico city and how they constructed it today with a friend. We should really look into that stuff as a state. I guess in nineteen eighty five they had a huge seven point eight earthquake and the employees in this building didn't even realize it.

A lot of seismic codes in the US are as a result of that quake and the technology is built into buildings built since the mid 80's. While some areas of the state are almost entirely built after this time, the majority of structures in SLC were built before this time and have very little seismic capabilities. There are lots of little things you can do to your house to improve it's capabilities.

The City and County building and now the capitol are built on seismic isolators so the whole building is essentially separated from the ground during an event. Last year when there was the large earthquake in Nevada, I was in teh City and county buildign and you could certainly feel it move in a very slow, controlled manner. Pretty cool.

[jmonkey]

I'm glad Red Mountain revamped their Sugarhouse project; the first version was completely generic and unassuming, and I thought it was unfortunate use of space that they initially were only going to build retail on that site. I think the mixed-use concept will work fantastically here, while replacing a blighted patch, and giving the the whole community a boost from the Mecham fiasco. We'll have to see what the Sugarhouse NIMBY's say next--they are really smarting and ready for a fight--though, legitimately, I can't imagine how the residents on Elm Ave. and 1000 East will feel about being surrounded by a five story building.

But...
100,000 sq. feet of ground level retail.
300 residential units
150-188 hotel rooms

I think this project looks good--anything in this economy looks good. It's dense, mixed use, and well planned. I think those residences facing Fairmont Park would be prime units. I say build it!!


"Nelson said Red Mountain has already begun "peeling back some of the layers" in the former Granite Furniture building, whose iconic sign will be retained, and has found that the existing building is "actually intact. It cosmetically needs a little bit of work, but we were even able to find some of the old glazing with lead stenciling still on it from back in the 1800's. So we're going to be doing a restoration on that building and pulling it back into the past, so to speak, in what would be a marriage of old versus new. We'll be preserving as much of the history as possible because it makes sense and it's a much better project with that type of a element included in it."

Very cool. Mecham should have tried something like that, instead of being an asshat.

[nickfreakingrules]

[QUOTE=Urban_logic;4054442]Murray Central TRAX??

I was riding TRAX into town this morning and noticed a train that said "Murray Central" as its end destination. This is something that I was just saying TRAX should do not too long ago on the SLC Transit News thread - have more trains running during peak-times that don't go the full route to alleviate train congestion. Looks like they are doing just that. Great thinking UTA!!


UTA has always had Murray Central trains, Murray Central is just the last stop before the switch-off that leads to the current depot/shop for the trains. That train you saw probably just consisted of extra cars that were used to lengthen trains during rush hour, and were just being taken back to the depot. They are "extra" trains, but they don't really help much with rush hour because they head back to Murray Central at the end of peak hours, so they normally don't have that many people on them. They do run a couple trains that go directly from the U to Sandy (and vice versa) a couple times a day during peak hours, though.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

The issues facing putting the soccer stadium in the CBD were for the most part due to our buddy Earl Holding. The city wanted to anchor the south end of DT with the soccer stadium and place it on the block bordered by 600 S 700 S Main St and W. Temple. Earl Holding owns that block as well as the block that is on the other side of Little America.

This block already has a Trax platform planned for and is mostly occupied by vacant car lots. Earl simply refused to even work with the city and Checketts to sell the property. I know legal issues come into play, but I think the city should have Eminent Domained the property, after all they did eminent domain on the entire Grand America block (less Flower Patch, because they fought it) so I figure it was time for the city to get it's back scratched.

Once the city realized they couldn't find a suitable location with a willing land owner in downtown, they developed the Fairpark concept. Yes it would have done a lot toward revitalizing the area, however Checketts also wasn't a big supporter of it being there. I think had the airport Trax line already been complete or close to completion that he may have considered it.

That isn't the entire story. The reason the city had trouble buying land on Main Street was because the state legislature ruled against using RDA funds for sports projects. Once that happened, Salt Lake knew it couldn't afford any land downtown, so that is when they looked to the Fair park.

A funny thing happened when Sandy won the stadium, though, the legislature reversed its ban on RDA funding, paving the way for Sandy to use their money to help build the stadium.

Let's be clear here: No one wanted the stadium in Salt Lake, except Rocky Anderson and the city council. RSL didn't, Sandy didn't and the state legislature didn't. They did everything in their power to stomp on Salt Lake's chances and it was bullshit.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by nickfreakingrules

UTA has always had Murray Central trains, Murray Central is just the last stop before the switch-off that leads to the current depot/shop for the trains. That train you saw probably just consisted of extra cars that were used to lengthen trains during rush hour, and were just being taken back to the depot. They are "extra" trains, but they don't really help much with rush hour because they head back to Murray Central at the end of peak hours, so they normally don't have that many people on them. They do run a couple trains that go directly from the U to Sandy (and vice versa) a couple times a day during peak hours, though.

Oh, ok. I take back my praises then.

[Urban_logic]

I must say that I was disappointed that Utah got only $1 billion worth of the $14 billion stimulus it requested. It would have been nice to get even $3-5 billion, but I guess we can't complain - that's $1 billion more than what we have now!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705280951,00.html

Stimulus package includes $1 billion-plus for Utah

The economic stimulus bill, which the House passed 244-188 on Wednesday, contains more than $1 billion in spending targeted for Utah — much less than state leaders hoped, and less per person than all but nine other states.

Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah, voted for the bill saying, "The core of this bill deals with job creation and cutting taxes, and those are my primary concerns for Utah families right now… Doing nothing is a risk I am unwilling to take."

All House Republicans voted against the bill, including Utah Reps. Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz. While Bishop said some of the package is good, Chaffetz was less gentle.

"There's a lot of crap," Chaffetz said, "I don't think the previous so-called stimulus packages have worked, nor do I have confidence that this new one will."

An analysis by the Wall Street Journal figured that Utah would receive at least $1 billion in the package, or nearly $400 per person in the state. Still, Utah ranks only No. 41 among the 50 states for the amount of such spending it would receive per person.

The Wall Street Journal said Utah spending includes: $617.4 million in aid to states; $310.1 million for transportation and infrastructure projects; $61 million for modernization of schools for grades K-12; $73 million for renovation of colleges; and $15 million for job training.

That $1 billion for Utah is much less than the $14.4 billion that Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. ealier requested through a long list of projects. Also, Salt Lake City had sought $780 million, and Salt Lake County had sought $173 million.

Matheson also released a list of some specifics in the bill he said that would help Utah. They include:

$221 million for highways and bridges, which he said will advance 136 projects the state says are "shovel ready" for quick action.

$53 million for transit grants for Utah.

$4.5 million for fixed guideway modernization for Utah.

$32 million to help build or repair wastewater systems.

$20 million for culinary water systems.

$293.5 million in extra Medicaid aid (for the poor and disabled) to Utah over nine quarters.

Besides that, Matheson listed other benefits that may not have specific amounts identified for Utah. For example, he said hundreds of millions of dollars are targeted for radioactive waste cleanup, which may help clean an infamous tailings pile near Moab.

Another example, he said, is that it contains $6.9 billion nationally for energy efficiency grants to state and local governments. Residents also would benefit from tax cuts and extended unemployment benefits in the package, he said.


Here is a list of the projects that will be able to begin within 30-90 days after the enactment of the bill from UDOT (I noticed that the Mountain View Corridor IS listed on there under "preservation and construction"):

http://www.udot.utah.gov/main/f?p=100:pg:3573483168344798:::1:T,V:2288,

[TANGELD_SLC]

I can't believe that bill actually passed in the House.

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by TANGELD_SLC

I can't believe that bill actually passed in the House.

I can't believe that not even one Republican voted for it despite Obama compromising on top of compromises. He cut out so much - billions of infrastructure spending for tax cuts to satisfy GOP leaders. Then he spoke to GOP leaders much more than he did Democrat leaders and even held discussions for them to express their concerns. He could of gone the Bush route and touted "I've got 'political capital' and I'm gonna spend it!" and just flat out ignored the Republican's requests altogether. He could have steam-rolled his original bill right through congress and still got it to pass. My interpritation is that the Republicans just want to keep all hands off so that if it doesn't work they can say, "Don't look at us, we didn't vote for it." Of course this could back-fire if the bill does work - in which case the Democrats can take full credit. Politics tend to make an interesting dance that is amusing to watch. That's what I love about this country - I can come home, turn on the news, and laugh myself to sleep. Hopefully Americans will eventually come to their political senses and form more parties than just two. It's like choosing between chocolate or vanilla - what if I want strawberry for a change?

Politics asside, and back to the point, the thing Utahns can all be greatful for at the end of the day is that we got $1 billion worth of money we wouldn't have otherwise had - which will multiply through the economy when the workers paid this money spend it at stores, those stores use the revenue to order from manufacturers, those manufactorers order from suppliers, federal and local governments collect taxes every step of the way, etc, etc. Then there's the added plus that we all have a new bridge or freeway to drive on

PS: I enjoyed your Palin picture better - She's a lot easier on the eyes than a dude's butt! Now I get mooned every time I read your posts lol

[Comrade]

I don't understand how you get upset over this, yet you weren't complaining when your own favorite female politician supported the corporate bailout? Or does she get a pass on that one because she's easy on the eyes?

I fail to grasp the logic there. Obama is a socialist and Palin is...socialist-light?

Anyway, let's not turn this into a debate on politics.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

I must say that I was disappointed that Utah got only $1 billion worth of the $14 billion stimulus it requested. It would have been nice to get even $3-5 billion, but I guess we can't complain - that's $1 billion more than what we have now!

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705280951,00.html

Stimulus package includes $1 billion-plus for Utah

The economic stimulus bill, which the House passed 244-188 on Wednesday, contains more than $1 billion in spending targeted for Utah — much less than state leaders hoped, and less per person than all but nine other states.

Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah, voted for the bill saying, "The core of this bill deals with job creation and cutting taxes, and those are my primary concerns for Utah families right now… Doing nothing is a risk I am unwilling to take."

All House Republicans voted against the bill, including Utah Reps. Rob Bishop and Jason Chaffetz. While Bishop said some of the package is good, Chaffetz was less gentle.

"There's a lot of crap," Chaffetz said, "I don't think the previous so-called stimulus packages have worked, nor do I have confidence that this new one will."

An analysis by the Wall Street Journal figured that Utah would receive at least $1 billion in the package, or nearly $400 per person in the state. Still, Utah ranks only No. 41 among the 50 states for the amount of such spending it would receive per person.

The Wall Street Journal said Utah spending includes: $617.4 million in aid to states; $310.1 million for transportation and infrastructure projects; $61 million for modernization of schools for grades K-12; $73 million for renovation of colleges; and $15 million for job training.

That $1 billion for Utah is much less than the $14.4 billion that Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. ealier requested through a long list of projects. Also, Salt Lake City had sought $780 million, and Salt Lake County had sought $173 million.

Matheson also released a list of some specifics in the bill he said that would help Utah. They include:

$221 million for highways and bridges, which he said will advance 136 projects the state says are "shovel ready" for quick action.

$53 million for transit grants for Utah.

$4.5 million for fixed guideway modernization for Utah.

$32 million to help build or repair wastewater systems.

$20 million for culinary water systems.

$293.5 million in extra Medicaid aid (for the poor and disabled) to Utah over nine quarters.

Besides that, Matheson listed other benefits that may not have specific amounts identified for Utah. For example, he said hundreds of millions of dollars are targeted for radioactive waste cleanup, which may help clean an infamous tailings pile near Moab.

Another example, he said, is that it contains $6.9 billion nationally for energy efficiency grants to state and local governments. Residents also would benefit from tax cuts and extended unemployment benefits in the package, he said.


Here is a list of the projects that will be able to begin within 30-90 days after the enactment of the bill from UDOT (I noticed that the Mountain View Corridor IS listed on there under "preservation and construction"):

http://www.udot.utah.gov/main/f?p=100:pg:3573483168344798:::1:T,V:2288,

Wow, bottom 18th percentile..... he must not like us....

[T-Mac]

Marmalade

[Urban_logic]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

Wow, bottom 18th percentile..... he must not like us....

Possibly...but I'm not going to make assumptions. Considering Utah is faring better than most states in the nation, I can see how money can be better spent elsewhere. We really don't need it as much as a lot of states do - Michigan and Road Island with their +10% unemployment rates, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida with their foreclosure issues, California with its budget problems and foreclosure issues, etc. Like I said, I am disappointed but I'm not going to complain. $1 billion is a very substantial chunk of money to be given and I am grateful for it!

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by Urban_logic

Possibly...but I'm not going to make assumptions. Considering Utah is faring better than most states in the nation, I can see how money can be better spent elsewhere. We really don't need it as much as a lot of states do - Michigan and Road Island with their +10% unemployment rates, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida with their foreclosure issues, California with its budget problems and foreclosure issues, etc. Like I said, I am disappointed but I'm not going to complain. $1 billion is a very substantial chunk of money to be given and I am grateful for it!

Yeah, you're right. I should have thought twice about that one, it was given....