Salt Lake:Official development news thread

[arkhitektor]

How about this instead:



This preserves most of what is already existing. I realized that my original "Liberty Park" scheme needlesly destroyed a lot of existing homes that could simply be re-incorporated into the newly reconnected neighborhood.

[arkhitektor]

Here's an even cheaper scheme that I came up with just for you Urbanboy.
It would look much like the plan above to bury the freeway, but instead of dealing with the complexities of covering I-15 through the north end of downtown, just get rid of it altogether.

Through traffic would be routed around downtown via I-80 and the current I-215 alignment.
Traffic coming into the city from the north would enter downtown via Beck St., and traffic coming in from the south would use the existing 500 S./600 S. viaducts or a new set of ramps at 700 W. and 800 W.:

[shakman]

Although the tunnel(s) may cost over a billion dollars, not bad at all.

[Future Mayor]

I REALLY like that vision. I doesn't destroy any existing neighborhoods and it does a great deal to connect downtown to the west and northwest neighborhoods.

Since the plan involves placing Front Runner below grade can we utilize either of the two depots as the intermodal hub rather than the one just built? Yes the new hub is nice but just imagine entering either depot with the magnificent old lobbies and catching your Front Runner north, south, east or west or Trax to the airport, university, bountiful, or any points south, in a state of the art boarding platform in the basement. (some Trax access could remain on the surface.

Since Gateway already exists it obviously would be difficult in that area but, I'm sure it would be manageable under 400 W, Triad SW parking lot and the north end of the ESA block(only when ESA needs to be replaced of course).

It could also be accomplished at the Rio Grande Depot with the highly underutilized area behind the depot.

You could also bring amtrak or a new regional or national HSR into the same station.

My grand vision would be to have a magnificent historic depot as the central hub of all rail travel into and out of SLC and Utah.

Yes I know it would be expensive, but I will enlist my favorite quote to assist me. "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood...." Daniel Burnham.

[zmaj101]

Seeing that baseball stadium in your mock up, it reminds me how much Rocky screwed things up by not getting the Real Soccer stadium built in SLC. What was he thinking? Now we have an attractive, modern stadium in . . . Sandy. Not building that stadium either just west of the Gateway or at least at the state fairgrounds has got to be one of the biggest city planning blunders in Salt Lake history.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by zmaj101

Seeing that baseball stadium in your mock up, it reminds me how much Rocky screwed things up by not getting the Real Soccer stadium built in SLC. What was he thinking? Now we have an attractive, modern stadium in . . . Sandy. Not building that stadium either just west of the Gateway or at least at the state fairgrounds has got to be one of the biggest city planning blunders in Salt Lake history.

We had similar blunder here in Richmond. Hence why the AAA Braves Minor League franchise left town at the end of this past season. The previous Mayor knew of his screw-up and suddenly started pointing fingers at the Atlanta Braves orginization. Eventually he indicated some support for a Downtown (close to it) stadium... Too late...

The developers of the then proposed stadium would have also developed the surrounding blocks. All of this WITHOUT tax payer dollars... and the previous Mayor said... no... The surrounding blocks were nothing but mostly parking lots and abandoned structures.

Most recently, there is a proposal from a different developer but there is no team. The current developer's plan is quite aggressive yet very intriguing. As the previous developer, it includes development of the surrounding blocks and in addition, the area of the current baseball stadium and soccer complex which is a couple of miles from Downtown. The current Mayor appears supportive of this new proposal. (It also includes a possible highrise in Downtown.) $800 million for the entire development and once again no tax payer dollars are being sought.

Downtown stadiums have done wonders for many urban cores across the Country (i.e. Baltimore (2), Louisville, Memphis, Washington, DC and countless other cities.)

If only people would do their homework...

Hopefully SLC will not repeat the same blunder. I do not know much about the City's Government, but hopefully they will look at the other successful downtown stadiums and repeat the success.

[T-Mac]

Sugar House developers say they're prepared to break ground immediately

By Barbara Rattle
The Enterprise

Santa Ana, Calif.-based Red Mountain Retail Group Inc. is scheduled to go before the Salt Lake City Planning Commission this Wednesday for building and site design approval for The Streets of Sugar House project on the so-called Granite Furniture Block in downtown Sugar House.

Eric Nelson, vice president, said Red Mountain has been working on the development for nearly two years, is prepared to break ground "immediately" and has added a boutique hotel to the product mix.

Red Mountain Retail Group owns virtually all of the remaining buildings on the Granite Furniture Block, bordered by 2100 South on the north, McClelland Street on the west, Highland Drive on the east and Sugarmont Drive on the south. Those structures include the former Granite Furniture showroom and associated loading dock areas and the former Leisure Living building. The firm also owns the former Granite Furniture parking lot just west of the former furniture company structure.

"One of the most significant differences between where we were last year to where we are today is that we've added some additional land uses to the project, including a hotel, with the idea that this is going to be a unique, mixed-use project/area, so you need uses that are complimentary, that actually support each other and bring in not only locals but visitors as well," Nelson said. "When we looked at that this time around we really thought what would make sense would be to try to bring in some type of transitory use, i.e., a hotel or something else that would bring people not only from distant local places but also from far, far away, and have them maybe start looking at Sugar House as a destination."

The hotel, for which an operator has been chosen but no brand selected, will be located just south of the former Granite Furniture store, where the retailer once operated its loading area. Nelson said the hotel will be boutique in nature and will have between 150 and 188 rooms.

Plans for the remainder of the Red Mountain's portion of the block remain largely unchanged from a year ago. They call for 100,000-plus square feet of ground-level retail with 300 units of living quarters -- both apartments and condominiums -- above, plus office space. The tallest building will rise to six stories.

Nelson said Red Mountain has already begun "peeling back some of the layers" in the former Granite Furniture building, whose iconic sign will be retained, and has found that the existing building is "actually intact. It cosmetically needs a little bit of work, but we were even able to find some of the old glazing with lead stenciling still on it from back in the 1800's. So we're going to be doing a restoration on that building and pulling it back into the past, so to speak, in what would be a marriage of old versus new. We'll be preserving as much of the history as possible because it makes sense and it's a much better project with that type of a element included in it."

Red Mountain has in hand "tons of letters of intent" from potential tenants, but Nelson could not reveal details. He did say, however, that the developers plan to have a mix of both national and local retailers in The Streets of Sugar House.

"We believe that the fabric of Sugar House is in its locally bred retailers. Any successful development project within Sugar House is going to have to incorporate them into the project," Nelson said. "I don't think it will all be local. Formula retailing does have its place. Some say it's got to be all formula retailing and the other side says you've got to support your local, neighborhood retailers. We think the answer is a little bit of both. You need those neighborhood retailers, the mom and pops that live locally that really invest their time and energy into their businesses, as well as some of the corporate retailers, because they strengthen and tie down and anchor some of these less popular neighborhood retailers. It will be a mixture of all that. We could figure out a way to do a big box, but we don't think this is the area for a big box."

The Streets of Sugar House will be phased, Nelson said.

"Sugar House, unfortunately has borne the brunt of the removal of a bunch of structures, and vacancy. Our goal isn't to make it worse, it's to try to stop the bleeding, so to speak. Get more tenants in there, get the retailers up and running. And then as interest comes back and the area becomes what it used to be, we can start layering in our residential used and our hotel," he said. "I think it would take a lot to lose the charm of Sugar House and the eclectic nature that it brings. But I think you can destroy it by bringing too much on at once, which is what we don't do. It will be a controlled redevelopment project where we're essentially bringing in uses and tenants and residences when it's appropriate."

Red Mountain hopes to get approvals from the city this week and "from there, to start moving toward breaking ground immediately. That's our goal," Nelson said. "Can we pull that off in today's economic climate? Today, the answer is we can. Tomorrow? We're dealing with things today that didn't exist 30 days ago, and bankruptcies with tenants that everybody thought were going to be fine. So today it looks good but it's very hard to predict."

[shakman]

To my understanding this has been in the workings for a while? What was the hold-up?

(As some of you can tell I have nothing else to do tonight but surf skyscraperpage.com . I get to babysit a construction site until tomorrow (Wed) morning. My relieve comes around 7am EST.)

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Since the plan involves placing Front Runner below grade can we utilize either of the two depots as the intermodal hub rather than the one just built? Yes the new hub is nice but just imagine entering either depot with the magnificent old lobbies and catching your Front Runner north, south, east or west or Trax to the airport, university, bountiful, or any points south, in a state of the art boarding platform in the basement. (some Trax access could remain on the surface.

Since Gateway already exists it obviously would be difficult in that area but, I'm sure it would be manageable under 400 W, Triad SW parking lot and the north end of the ESA block(only when ESA needs to be replaced of course).

It could also be accomplished at the Rio Grande Depot with the highly underutilized area behind the depot.

You could also bring amtrak or a new regional or national HSR into the same station.

My grand vision would be to have a magnificent historic depot as the central hub of all rail travel into and out of SLC and Utah.

Yes I know it would be expensive, but I will enlist my favorite quote to assist me. "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood...." Daniel Burnham.

Hey, as long as we're spending untold billions of dollars on an imaginary project, we may as well go for broke.
I've added transit lines to the plan, including a re-routed Airport line, a new line to Bountiful and S. Davis Co., and I'm using the Rio Grande depot as the central station. The current Intermodal Hub building would be kept and would continue being used as a Greyhound bus terminal:

[cololi]

Originally Posted by shakman

To my understanding this has been in the workings for a while? What was the hold-up?

They were smart and decided to revamp their proposal to be economically viable and to fit into the community. The difference between Red Mt. and Mecham are striking. Red Mt. worked with the City upfront, Mecham didn't. Red Mt. told the City they were going to revamp over a year ago, mecham insisted on moving forward without any clue whether he could actually pull off what he was proposing.

I like the concept of burying the freeway and commuter rail through the west side of downtown. Wish we had the money to do it.

Arkitektor: You forgot the University extension on 400 South west to the hub.

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

Originally Posted by cololi

They were smart and decided to revamp their proposal to be economically viable and to fit into the community. The difference between Red Mt. and Mecham are striking. Red Mt. worked with the City upfront, Mecham didn't. Red Mt. told the City they were going to revamp over a year ago, mecham insisted on moving forward without any clue whether he could actually pull off what he was proposing.

I like the concept of burying the freeway and commuter rail through the west side of downtown. Wish we had the money to do it.

Arkitektor: You forgot the University extension on 400 South west to the hub.

MMmmm I would be hesitant to put anything underground due to earthquake concerns....

[shakman]

Originally Posted by Justnslcsugarhood.

MMmmm I would be hesitant to put anything underground due to earthquake concerns....

I was thinking the same thing, especially with putting FrontRunner that close to a major structure - the baseball stadium.

Although, other seimic active areas of the West do have tunnels. It can be done.

[MetroFanatic]

Hey everybody.

I don't want to get us too far off topic (or at least, not for very long), but if any of you happened to watch the Governors state of the state address and saw the little video afterwards of the democrats response, I did the lighting and partial camera work for that.

Here is a set photo I took:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennethhoratio/3213645823/

If you missed it:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=5438578

[TANGELD_SLC]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Tangled, I must comment on your avatar. You know the Library System is Socialist right?

The Library System isn't running the country.

[urbanboy]

Some great ideas arkhitektor, however, I'm sad that you would suggest demolishing the Salt Lake Hardware Building for a Stadium, and a baseball stadium none the less, which we already have.




Also, zmaj101, Rocky Anderson tried very hard to get the Real Stadium in either downtown or at the Utah State Fair Grounds. Here is his proposal:





It was our State legislators who prevented Salt Lake City from getting the Real stadium.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by TANGELD_SLC

The Library System isn't running the country.

Luv your avatar.

Thanks for the laugh.

What was the reasoning for the State to block the proposal?

[WASDEN]

I was hoping when I-15 was rebuilt that they might at least put it below grade through downtown(much like the East side belt near 2000 East). That would have allowed East/West cross streets to be rejoined for a downtown continuous with Rose Park and Glendale neighborhods. But cost is certainly a limiting factor, and I also believe its more of a water table issue than a seismic issue. I think this is why the parking garages at gateway are not underground, but above ground hidden behind lame stucco facades.

[urbanboy]

Gateway parking is also below grade.

[WASDEN]

ya but just like a single deck right? Seems like most of it is above ground, and what is below ground is only a couple feet deep.

BTW- I think it woud have been awesome to have the Real Stadium on NorthTemple (not in the middle of the Fairpark though). Lame Utah politics..

[shakman]

Originally Posted by WASDEN

I was hoping when I-15 was rebuilt that they might at least put it below grade through downtown(much like the East side belt near 2000 East). That would have allowed East/West cross streets to be rejoined for a downtown continuous with Rose Park and Glendale neighborhods. But cost is certainly a limiting factor, and I also believe its more of a water table issue than a seismic issue. I think this is why the parking garages at gateway are not underground, but above ground hidden behind lame stucco facades.

Underground parking is also much more expensive than above grade. From experience, when it comes to "value engineering" of a project, aka cost cutting to get a better financial deal from investors, bringing parking from below to above grade is one of the first things on the list; as well as, unfortunately, the quality of materials used on a facade.

I did not know the SLC area had a high water table. CCC seems to have a deep hole. I believe the entire parking for CCC is below grade. Correct?