Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Spelled that way?

Yes! Benoit isn't quite as terrifying lol

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

In any event, Quebec sovereignty is not at all imminent, and very likely will not come to pass in the foreseeable future (beyond which, who knows what will happen in any given place?). The "winning conditions" are not in place.

True, though a PQ government is almost as imminent as a Poilievre one federally.

If they govern well (in contrast with the last two who had their shot: Libs and CAQ) then the effects could be... interesting.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interesting webpage.

The graph at the bottom of the page doesn't really show what you say. What is visible is a rise in the OUI vote intentions (and decline in the NO vote intentions) until the beginning of Spring 2023, and then essentially no change in voting intentions since Spring 2023, with just a modest uptick for the NON vote intentions in the most recent polls that doesn't seem statistically significant. From Spring 2023 to now the big picture is essentially a flat line, no change in voting intentions.

Obviously it's high enough that the issue is unarguably an "active" one. Unlike (among tons of possible examples) Breton independence, Saskatchewan independence, California independence, or Newfoundland independence (regardless of what SSH may be dreaming about ).

In the Western world, AFAIK the only 3 places with an alive, credible movement are Quebec, Scotland, and Catalonia.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Will it be any consolation to Weston when they lose a quarter of their market

If Quebec ever leaves then at least that exact thought would be a nice silver lining for MolsonExport

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Yes! Benoit isn't quite as terrifying lol

Never seen Benwah, have to say.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Yes! Benoit isn't quite as terrifying lol

In fact it's Benoît.

It was the name of the former pope: Benoît XVI.

From Latin Benedictus, hence the ^ over the i.

We even have an adverb based on it (because benedictus literally means "blessed"), which is "benoîtement", not that much used today, but I quite like it (don't know if people in Québec use it all that much).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

In the Western world, AFAIK the only 3 places with an alive, credible movement are Quebec, Scotland, and Catalonia.

+ Flanders of course. The secessionists have just resoundingly won the Flemish elections in Belgium (last Sunday).

(orange and yellow: the Flemish secessionists, with yellow being the super hardcore and racist secessionist far-right party, and orange being the hardcore secessionist hard-right party)
(blue: the Francophone center-right; red: the Francophone Socialists)

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by lio45

I would draw the line where "Manitoba gets substantial per capita equalization, and that amount is on the rise too" is not hate speech, but yeah, you're correct, point taken, I'll consider Hecate got enough of his "eye for an eye" from me at this point, and I'll pivot to being more professional from this point on.

lol why are you the mod now

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The UK chose to leave a common market. That's completely different from the secession from a country. The EU is not a country and the UK was not a province of that country. You can secede from a country and maintain a customs union with that country. There are several historical examples: Norway after seceding from Sweden, Luxembourg after seceding from Belgium, Ireland after seceding from the UK. Luxembourg even kept the same currency as Belgium.

"Maintain" could mislead. "Negotiate" or "enter into" might be better.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interesting webpage.

The graph at the bottom of the page doesn't really show what you say. What is visible is a rise in the OUI vote intentions (and decline in the NO vote intentions) until the beginning of Spring 2023, and then essentially no change in voting intentions since Spring 2023, with just a modest uptick for the NON vote intentions in the most recent polls that doesn't seem statistically significant. From Spring 2023 to now the big picture is essentially a flat line, no change in voting intentions.

It would be interesting to seen how Boomers and Gen Z compare in this regard. It might tell something about what the future holds.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In fact it's Benoît.

It was the name of the former pope: Benoît XVI.

From Latin Benedictus, hence the ^ over the i.

We even have an adverb based on it (because benedictus literally means "blessed"), which is "benoîtement", not that much used today, but I quite like it (don't know if people in Québec use it all that much).

I know benoîtement but it's rarely used here.

Quebec spelling is Benoît as well.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Interacted today with someone from the francophone region of western Newfoundland whose surname was Benwah and I'm still not recovered.

Surname? First Nations?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec spelling is Benoît as well.

With the spelling reform of the 1990s you can now write all these words without the circumflex accent, but I don't quite like it and I prefer to write them with the accent (maître instead of maitre, s'il-vous-plaît instead of s'il-vous-plait, connaît instead of connait, etc).

The circumflex accent is usually an accent that shows a "s" that stopped being pronounced at the end of the Middle Ages, and was latter removed from the spelling altogether, and replaced by the ^ on the preceding vowel. English, which is even more conservative than French in its spelling, has preserved those ancient "s", hence forêt, from forest in the Middle Ages (still spelled like that in English), or bête, from beste, spelled beast in English, or fête, from feste, spelled feast in English, etc.

Sometimes the circumflex is entirely artificial and was placed there for no good reason (i.e. there was no "s" in the Middle Ages after that vowel), but the spelling reform from the 1990s decided to remove all circumflex accents, even those which really indicated an ancien "s". This is too extreme.

In the case of Benoît, it really indicates the presence of an ancient "s". That given name was spelled (and pronounced) Benoist during the Middle Ages. That old Medieval spelling is still found in the family name "Benoist".

[lio45]

Worth mentioning (well, not to you, obviously) that that ancient “s” often survives to this day in some variants (forestier, bestial, festin, festif, festival…)

[New Brisavoine]

But not always: benoîtement, aoûtats, îliens, prêteur (although prestement). The idiosyncrasies of a language...

Do you guys have aoûtats in Québec by the way? I was bitten in April... and it was just very early Spring, not even late summer!!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Worth mentioning (well, not to you, obviously) that that ancient “s” often survives to this day in some variants (forestier, bestial, festin, festif, festival…)

It also lives on in certain Québécois surnames:

Lévesque
Courchesne
Dufresne
Duchesne
Beauchesne

[YOWetal]

With Quebec making better and better economic decisions and Quebec arguably having more economic drivers with better future prospects combined with much lower levels of immigration it seems like the possiblity of Quebec having higher GDP per capita than Canadian average could emerge which eventually would make Quebec a net contributor.

Would this make independance inevetiable? Are there substantial numbers of actual Francophone federalists or just pragmatists that think it's too costly? I guess UK example shows the transition costs can easily overwhelm the outgoing subsidy but that's a rational argument.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

But not always: benoîtement, aoûtats, îliens, prêteur (although prestement). The idiosyncrasies of a language...

Do you guys have aoûtats in Québec by the way? I was bitten in April... and it was just very early Spring, not even late summer!!

Apparently we have them but I never hear about them.

No shortage of other bugs though.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by Hecate

lol is manitoba threatening to separate every five years or so because they didn’t get their way?

Québec doesn't threat to separate every five years, it is the PQ that wants to separate, and they want that all the time. The Liberals never want to separate and the CAQ doesn't want to talk about it ether way. ROC media love to talk about the ramblings of the PQ because it helps to boost ratings.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well the Quebec government has little say but Quebec has a near veto on federal policy as the normal kingmaker in federal elections.

Of course, this is why we are having a Bloc Québécois government in the last few elections...

And Ontario has no impact at all on who is running the country...