Canadian Retail Thread

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Doady

Death of the department store is sad, and it also means the death of the mall. No more anchor tenants for the mall. Without anchors, the mall dies.

From department stores to big box. From malls to power centres. I don't know about you guys, but I think power centres are just horrible places.

And generally power centres are located in industrial areas rather than residential areas too. We get lower prices, but at what cost?

Thanks all those sitting on their ass in their condo ordering crap off Amazon’s and DoorDash. Is it any wonder society is gettymore divided as people interact less in person.

[Loco101]

I wonder what the Americans in charge of HBC have been up to? Probably made quick big bucks while at the same time destroyed the company.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I wonder what the Americans in charge of HBC have been up to? Probably made quick big bucks while at the same time destroyed the company.

Yup, those damned leveraged buyouts by AMERICAN private equity firms.

American businessman Richard Baker and a group of shareholders took the company private in March 2020.

On 14 March 2025, after 355 years in business, Hudson's Bay announced that it would be liquidating and shuttering all 80 of its locations, as well as 3 Saks Fifth Avenue and 13 Saks OFF 5TH locations in Canada, for a combined total of 96 locations to be shuttered. Liquidation sales are set to begin as soon as the following week, with locations to be permanently shuttered by June 2025.

[le calmar]

My local Rona appears to underperform big time compared to Home Depot. I can't say I've been to many Rona around the country, but if it's a widespread thing, I wonder how long it's going to take before the NY equity firm in charge will decide to shut down the locations that are underperforming.

[hipster duck]

So unrelated to actual retail, but if Trump actually does slap a 200% tarriff on European alcohol, then I could see Americans hitting up our provincial liquor stores to buy Scotch and French wine at "cheap" prices.

Now that's something I didn't have on my 2025 bingo card!

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

So unrelated to actual retail, but if Trump actually does slap a 200% tarriff on European alcohol, then I could see Americans hitting up our provincial liquor stores to buy Scotch and French wine at "cheap" prices.

Now that's something I didn't have on my 2025 bingo card!

They would still have to pay it at the border, unless they smuggle it.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

They would still have to pay it at the border, unless they smuggle it.

I thought de minimis exceptions still applied?

[Hecate]

Honestly heartbroken by the HBC news. What do you think the chances are of the bay surviving this, can the government intervene?

I love shopping at the bay, just bought some stripe stuff this morning and it’s slim pickings. This really sucks.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jamincan

I thought de minimis exceptions still applied?

Nope. Drumpf is getting rid of this.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Yup, those damned leveraged buyouts by AMERICAN private equity firms.

American businessman Richard Baker and a group of shareholders took the company private in March 2020.

On 14 March 2025, after 355 years in business, Hudson's Bay announced that it would be liquidating and shuttering all 80 of its locations, as well as 3 Saks Fifth Avenue and 13 Saks OFF 5TH locations in Canada, for a combined total of 96 locations to be shuttered. Liquidation sales are set to begin as soon as the following week, with locations to be permanently shuttered by June 2025.

Rather than blaming Americans for the demise of Hudson's Bay, where were the Canadians who chose not to invest in the company. Where were the Westons; the Thomsons; the Bronfmans; Jean Coutu; Jim Pattison? and others. Likely The Bay would have failed in the early 2000s without the American investment.

[Harrison]

What I find ineresting is that department stores seems to be alive in well in Australia (was just there for 5 weeks). It's a smaller country then here yet has a variety of department stores that all seem to be busy and expanding:

- Kmart (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- Target (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- David Jones
- Myer
- Big W
- Harvey Norman

My favorite of them all is Kmart - it's what Target Canada should've been: stylish, affordable, current and all in a well laid-out store. Almost everything they sell is their store brand 'Anko', which is actually the brand that the Zellers reboot here stocks, however Anko is owned by Kmart Australia so they have a much wider selection of goods there than at Zellers here.

I am not sure why Aussies love department stores more than here, perhaps a lot less of them get things online through Amazon due to their remoteness from the rest of the world? I also noticed that there are a lot less power centres / big box developments there and many more shops on main streets, which was great to see.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Rather than blaming Americans for the demise of Hudson's Bay, where were the Canadians who chose not to invest in the company. Where were the Westons; the Thomsons; the Bronfmans; Jean Coutu; Jim Pattison? and others. Likely The Bay would have failed in the early 2000s without the American investment.

American leadership ran the company into the ground (something that we are seeing now on the world stage). Why wouldn't I blame them? Why wouldn't you?

Yeah, sure, Canadians weren't in the room, but it is hard to prevent Americans who want to take a position on a Canadian company from acquiring stock.

Dating back to 1670, it has been deeply entrenched in Canadian history, but has been led by Americans for several decades now.

The architect behind most of the Bay's modern history is Richard Baker, an American real estate titan whose National Realty and Development Corp. Equity Partners bought the company in 2008 from the widow of late South Carolina businessman Jerry Zucker for $1.1 billion.

Baker took it public in 2012, only to reverse course through a takeover bid that had to be sweetened twice before shareholders accepted it in early 2020, ahead of the COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hudsons-bay-court-1.7485365

[MolsonExport]

Hudson's Bay goes to court to seek approval to begin liquidating its business

Given its financial situation it wants to conclude the liquidation process by June 15

[IRT_BMT_IND]

Originally Posted by Harrison

What I find ineresting is that department stores seems to be alive in well in Australia (was just there for 5 weeks). It's a smaller country then here yet has a variety of department stores that all seem to be busy and expanding:

- Kmart (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- Target (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- David Jones
- Myer
- Big W
- Harvey Norman

My favorite of them all is Kmart - it's what Target Canada should've been: stylish, affordable, current and all in a well laid-out store. Almost everything they sell is their store brand 'Anko', which is actually the brand that the Zellers reboot here stocks, however Anko is owned by Kmart Australia so they have a much wider selection of goods there than at Zellers here.

I am not sure why Aussies love department stores more than here, perhaps a lot less of them get things online through Amazon due to their remoteness from the rest of the world? I also noticed that there are a lot less power centres / big box developments there and many more shops on main streets, which was great to see.

Honestly the answer is probably the lack of the huge American retailers especially Walmart in Australia. Walmart's immense market power has crowded everyone else out. Australia does have Amazon and Costco, but their operations there are substantially smaller compared to Canada (for instance there are 15 Costcos in Australia, if they had as many per capita as Canada they'd have around 70).

I believe Kresge did own the Australian K-Marts at one point (there were lawsuits in Australia in the 70s and 80s when they tried to import products from their global supply chain and bypass the Australian distributor).

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Hudson's Bay goes to court to seek approval to begin liquidating its business

Given its financial situation it wants to conclude the liquidation process by June 15

This really is sad. No commercial enterprise is more intertwined with Canada's history.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Thanks all those sitting on their ass in their condo ordering crap off Amazon’s and DoorDash. Is it any wonder society is gettymore divided as people interact less in person.

People say this a lot but I'm not sure. I think people actually appreciate going out even more after being depressed and confined to home during COVID. All that retail is still there, but the format and location is different compared to 30 years ago. People might be lazy to go outside, but they might also be too lazy to wash the dishes.

It's kind of like the recent revival of physical media like CDs, vinyl, DVDs, games among young people lately. People still desire closer more tangible connection.

And perhaps most importantly, it's entirely in the retailer's and producer's and manufacturer's best interest to have a physical presence. People are more likely to buy something if they see it and feel it in person. This especially true for clothes. A physical presence is like a form of advertisement.

You can see some retailers have "loss leaders", like Costco their chicken and hot dogs. They sell something at a loss merely to get people inside the store. Once the people enter the store, they can't resist the temptation to buy something else. Profit.

Amazon is different because it sells a huge range of products that even a department store cannot match. And it can sell higher quantities of a particular product than even the big box or category killers which helps keep the prices down that is hard to compete with.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Harrison

What I find ineresting is that department stores seems to be alive in well in Australia (was just there for 5 weeks). It's a smaller country then here yet has a variety of department stores that all seem to be busy and expanding:

- Kmart (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- Target (not affiliated with the U.S. company)
- David Jones
- Myer
- Big W
- Harvey Norman

My favorite of them all is Kmart - it's what Target Canada should've been: stylish, affordable, current and all in a well laid-out store. Almost everything they sell is their store brand 'Anko', which is actually the brand that the Zellers reboot here stocks, however Anko is owned by Kmart Australia so they have a much wider selection of goods there than at Zellers here.

I am not sure why Aussies love department stores more than here, perhaps a lot less of them get things online through Amazon due to their remoteness from the rest of the world? I also noticed that there are a lot less power centres / big box developments there and many more shops on main streets, which was great to see.

I have also noticed this in Mexico. I actually went into a Sears in Mexico City’s downtown when I was there a few weeks ago. The store is about 8 stories and it was decently busy. A much nicer store than the downtown Vancouver Hudson’s Bay. I’ve also seen other department store chains in that country, and some of the malls there have only been built in the past 10-15 years.

Sears Mexico is not owned by Sears, having been spun off from its parent in 1997 and now owned by a company owned by billionaire Carlos Slim.

[theman23]

Australian malls generally don’t have boutique fashion stores that Canadian malls do, which I think has hurt the Bay just as much as online shopping.

With that being said, I don’t think Meyers or David Jones are doing particularly well either. The low end of the market is the part that seems to be thriving, which is dominated by Walmart here.

[samne]

A department store selling couches and dress shirts time may have passed. Sucks but probably the case. They have been down this road too many times.

I do think the HBC brand will live on though. I can see the multi coloured stripe merchandise in smaller boutique stores or HBC sections in other larger format stores. I think there is still alot of brand value in it.

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by samne

A department store selling couches and dress shirts time may have passed. Sucks but probably the case. They have been down this road too many times.

I do think the HBC brand will live on though. I can see the multi coloured stripe merchandise in smaller boutique stores or HBC sections in other larger format stores. I think there is still alot of brand value in it.

Agreed on the brand, that reminds me of their tourist-focused store in Banff (that closed within the last few years) where the focus was on the HBC Stripes merchandise as that is really a symbol of Canadiana.