[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[jonny golden]

I almost salivate when I envision the potential - not only the building proper, but the adjacent empty land, and the decrepit looking telegraph building.

I really hope the new owner is a developer with a big vision.

[benvui]

I was looking at SNB this morning to see if the sale had been inputed yet and it was interesting to see that Crombie owned the two terminal buildings, the parking lot and the train station building. The vacant land is part of the Avenir Center and the telegraph building is it's own lot. I wonder if the sale included the train station or if the lots were subdivided.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by benvui

I was looking at SNB this morning to see if the sale had been inputed yet and it was interesting to see that Crombie owned the two terminal buildings, the parking lot and the train station building. The vacant land is part of the Avenir Center and the telegraph building is it's own lot. I wonder if the sale included the train station or if the lots were subdivided.

The Telegraph Building remains the fly in the ointment regarding any massive redevelopment proposal. Rumour is that the owners think they can make a killing on any potential sale and are holding out for top dollar.

Of course, the new owners of Terminal Plaza could cooperate with the city (Owners of the Avenir Centre) for a somewhat less overarching redevelopment not including the Telegraph Building. This is still a good sized parcel there which could accommodate something nice.

Just think what this segment of Main could look like in 15-20 years! There has already been substantial change on Main Street between the subway and Vaughan Harvey. Just think if Terminal Plaza and the property to the east next to the Avenir Centre were redeveloped. Ashford also has plans for the property across the street where Auto Indulgence is located. Then there is also the property on the SW corner of Main & Vaughan Harvey in the Junction Village.

This whole section of Main could look fantastic!

[jonny golden]

The Telegraph Building remains the fly in the ointment regarding any massive redevelopment proposal.

The owner holds all the cards too, because there is a right of way through to Main Street from the Telegraph Building. If the new developer wants to expand the 1222 footprint to do something really special, that could be an issue.

Also it'll be interesting to see if the whole parcel was sold, or if they subdivided 1222 by itself.

In any event, you're right about this segment of Main Street. I'd really love to see the Junction developers come back to life with something substantial along Main Street too.

[Taeolas]

Now I realize what you mean by the Telegraph Building.

Over in the Avenir Thread when I described my trip to see Come from Away, I mentioned how it seemed a missing link that they didn't have a proper pedestrian walkway from the 1222 parking lots to the Avenir Entrance, I now realize it's the Telegraph Building (and its Right of Way to Main Street) that is blocking just that, and forcing people to blaze goat trails through there.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

The owner holds all the cards too, because there is a right of way through to Main Street from the Telegraph Building.

I was actually unaware of this. This is horrible. I wonder if anything could be done legally to circumvent this? With Highfield Square gone, there is access to this building from the rear. The ROW to Main Street isn't absolutely necessary any more.

I would hate to think that a simple ROW could put the kibosh to a major redevelopment that would define the downtown west end.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The whole "traffic calming/active transportation" thing seems to be getting a little out of hand. It's almost as if planners and traffic engineers are creating designs based on ideology rather than what is practical and functional to serve the needs/wants of the majority.

"Practical and functional to serve the needs/wants of the majority" - keep in mind we're talking about downtown Moncton here, not Quispamsis.

The urban areas of Moncton and Dieppe have gained tens of thousands of new residents recently who mainly come from large cities, not transplants from deep rural NB who have only ever known car dependency. A combination of transit/walking/cycling is very much the norm among a rapidly growing share of the core's population, and the city is finally starting to adapt to this new reality with vastly improved bus frequency on urban routes, and long-overdue bike infrastructure in urban areas, rather than just in the suburbs where few people use them.

A bike lane on a few downtown streets is not going to create gridlock or *checks notes* threaten the existence of cars as some seem to suggest. The concerns I've seen on social media are eerily reminiscent of the Avenir Centre parking hysteria back in 2016.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was actually unaware of this. This is horrible. I wonder if anything could be done legally to circumvent this? With Highfield Square gone, there is access to this building from the rear. The ROW to Main Street isn't absolutely necessary any more.

I would hate to think that a simple ROW could put the kibosh to a major redevelopment that would define the downtown west end.

We'll see how it all plays out. Maybe the new developer is only interested in 1222, and not anything else. We're just speculating really.

It would be a shame if the more ambitious option was passed up though.

[Monctoncore]

Something small, but I noticed downtown, and even on some of the trails like bore park, they have updated the lighting to the brighter LED’s. It looks so much better and makes the areas even on Main Street feel safer because it feels brighter at night.

[Monctoncore]

I have a pretty reliable source who told me that Ashford intends on having a parking garage on or close to the old city jail next to the courthouse. They said that they have seen the planned layout for the development as it was shown to the courthouse management and upper staff.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I have a pretty reliable source who told me that Ashford intends on having a parking garage on or close to the old city jail next to the courthouse. They said that they have seen the planned layout for the development as it was shown to the courthouse management and upper staff.

Well, if the Ashford/Downing project proceeds as planned, this will displace a lot of surface parking, and, a parking structure would make a lot of sense.

In fact, it would be reasonable to build a parking structure before any other parts of the development in order to minimize disruption as much as possible.

[Leroy321]

So far with all the rumours combined we have:
-parking garage over by the old jail
-40~ mixed used residential structure
-21~ residential tower
-farmers market
-convention center
I hope we see some plans soon.

[jonny golden]

In fact, it would be reasonable to build a parking structure before any other parts of the development in order to minimize disruption as much as possible.

Good point. The parking structure and the new E-W street. I'm thinking that Ashford will start next year, as the city was scheduled to finish the infrastructure work in 2025.

Here's the original work schedule:
The city's capital budget forecasts spending $7.9 million related to "Ashford's downtown development plan" in 2022. A further $10.2 million is scheduled in 2023, with $8.1 million in 2024 and $5.7 million in 2025.

There's something else concerning Ashford that puzzles me. Why are they offering such large rental discounts on their Lorentz Drive units?

2- & 3-Bedroom Units: $200 off each month’s rent for an entire year (12 months).
1 Bedroom Units: $300 off each month’s rent for an entire year (12 months).

I thought the Moncton rental market was supposed to be strong ?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Good point. The parking structure and the new E-W street. I'm thinking that Ashford will start next year, as the city was scheduled to finish the infrastructure work in 2025.

Here's the original work schedule:
The city's capital budget forecasts spending $7.9 million related to "Ashford's downtown development plan" in 2022. A further $10.2 million is scheduled in 2023, with $8.1 million in 2024 and $5.7 million in 2025.

Has this schedule changed? I have been thinking about that when I look at the scope of work they are doing on Main Street. The Infinity development seems to have taken priority for the city.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Has this schedule changed? I have been thinking about that when I look at the scope of work they are doing on Main Street. The Infinity development seems to have taken priority for the city.

No, I don't think the timeline has changed. They are doing more work on Westmorland this year as a precondition for the Ashford/Downing project. I don't foresee any work being done on the actual project per se until next summer (at the earliest). I think the most we can expect this year is a rendering.

I am becoming less sanguine about the stature of the Ashford tower. Economic conditions have worsened and immigration levels have been reduced. I think we will see a reduction in the approval and construction of new residential buildings over the next few years.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

No, I don't think the timeline has changed. They are doing more work on Westmorland this year as a precondition for the Ashford/Downing project. I don't foresee any work being done on the actual project per se until next summer (at the earliest). I think the most we can expect this year is a rendering.

I am becoming less sanguine about the stature of the Ashford tower. Economic conditions have worsened and immigration levels have been reduced. I think we will see a reduction in the approval and construction of new residential buildings over the next few years.

I agree. I think the conditions that caused the boom are waning.

[Mud]

Not to be a downer, but I think the only hope south of Main in the near future is whichever Ashford development has a large public component and maybe Lafford's riverfront development just based off how unusually aggressive he seems to be. I simply don't see enough pre-existing momentum for that area too be filled out in current conditions.

[jonny golden]

I think we will see a reduction in the approval and construction of new residential buildings over the next few years.

I've been thinking the same thing. Hence my question about Ashford Living offering significant rental incentives on their new buildings on Lorentz & Gordon - and how this could affect their downtown plans.

Then again, if we look at the CMHC vacancy rates for Moncton, they're noticeably low. I think the good news is that Moncton's economy is strong and we'll continue to see some exciting projects materialize. The purchase of 1222 Main leads me to believe that developers still have confidence in the Moncton market.

I just wish that the St. Bernard's project would get off the ground. It would make a major impact on our downtown.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

I've been thinking the same thing. Hence my question about Ashford Living offering significant rental incentives on their new buildings on Lorentz & Gordon - and how this could affect their downtown plans.

Then again, if we look at the CMHC vacancy rates for Moncton, they're noticeably low. I think the good news is that Moncton's economy is strong and we'll continue to see some exciting projects materialize. The purchase of 1222 Main leads me to believe that developers still have confidence in the Moncton market.

I just wish that the St. Bernard's project would get off the ground. It would make a major impact on our downtown.

MU has taken over property management for Ashford residential properties. I don't know how significant a news item this is, but it does make you wonder how enthusiastic Ashford remains regarding their residential portfolio. It's also interesting they have not started construction of the second Lorentz building either.

[Monctoncore]

Every one of us just needs to take a deep breath. I think the quietness of the past 6 months has us all a bit stir crazy. I’m sure developments will change their heights, or be delayed, but I still have a lot of belief they will be built. Immigration is going to continue, people will continue to move in and out of the city. At the rate of the past 6 years, probably not, but they will still be coming.

One thing is for sure, people still need a place to live and these developments will be rented and filled. I remember the first census data I looked at at was 2006, I was 16 at the time.. this city has been growing at a steady pace for going on 20 years now, development has been steady.. let’s all breath and watch the city change, the skyline change over the next 10 years!