ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[sunking1056]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I'm sure a few go to Edgewood, but "all" is a complete joke.

Well, I was making a joke, so i'm glad that was clear....

For what it's worth, though, people from Buckhead absolutely do flood the Edgewood bars on weekends. Of course they go other places too and many stay in Buckhead but they flock to Edgewood too.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by Alfred E Neuman

HA! That would give them more franchises than McDonalds

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by scania

I would LOVE to see 50 Allen Plaza get built.

And TWELVE Centennial Park, North Tower, FTW!

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by sunking1056

For what it's worth, though, people from Buckhead absolutely do flood the Edgewood bars on weekends. Of course they go other places too and many stay in Buckhead but they flock to Edgewood too.

Hallelujah, we certainly don't need another party scene up here. I hope they have enough sense to take MARTA.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Hallelujah, we certainly don't need another party scene up here. I hope they have enough sense to take MARTA.

Oh yeah... buckhead residents are known for their fervent support and usage of public transportation.

[BunkyWay]

Originally Posted by briantech

Oh yeah... buckhead residents are known for their fervent support and usage of public transportation.

This may be so, but we should be clear as to the cause of that lack of support and usage. Buckhead housing costs are (for now) at a premium and, as a result, most of its residents have higher incomes. When one has a higher income, his time is worth too much to deal with the inefficiencies and incompetence of MARTA.

[scania]

Originally Posted by BunkyWay

This may be so, but we should be clear as to the cause of that lack of support and usage. Buckhead housing costs are (for now) at a premium and, as a result, most of its residents have higher incomes. When one has a higher income, his time is worth too much to deal with the inefficiencies and incompetence of MARTA.

This VERY TRUE!

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by sunking1056

Well, I was making a joke, so i'm glad that was clear....

For what it's worth, though, people from Buckhead absolutely do flood the Edgewood bars on weekends. Of course they go other places too and many stay in Buckhead but they flock to Edgewood too.

"People" "flood" "they" "flock"

amusing

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by RudyJK

It's well under way. Last week they ripped off the porte cochere and scaffolding now surrounds the whole building. Looks like a massive overhaul as they promised. They also cut down a few trees on Williams Street along the sidewalk. Too bad they are not bringing any of it closer to any of the streets. I think it will still be surrounded by the parking lot.

Thanks! I certainly hope they replace the trees, though.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by briantech

Oh yeah... buckhead residents are known for their fervent support and usage of public transportation.

Point taken. To be honest I don't think too many Atlantans use transit to go out for social occasions. When we're going to dinner with another couple I'll suggest MARTA and people act like I'm crazy. "Why go through all that when we can drive there in 10 minutes and get out right at the front door?"

However, if I go to some place like the Earl on my own I usually take MARTA. Still, I am often the only person getting on or off the bus in EAV.

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Point taken. To be honest I don't think too many Atlantans use transit to go out for social occasions. When we're going to dinner with another couple I'll suggest MARTA and people act like I'm crazy. "Why go through all that when we can drive there in 10 minutes and get out right at the front door?"

It's a valid point at all times of the day.

When I lived in Midtown near a Marta station, I would take the train sometimes Downtown to work or to Lenox. But if where I wanted to go required switching onto a bus - forget it.

I live off Peachtree Battle now. To take Marta downtown would take at least an hour + (that's generous) including walking to the bus stop, waiting on the bus, busing to Lindbergh, waiting on the train, riding the train to Peachtree Center and walking to the office.

I can drive, park in the building and be in my office in an average of 25 minutes. The cost difference is negligible. Until Marta can improve those times - or the driving times get worse - it doesn't stand a chance with many people.

[Tuckerman]

Using public transit, especially for higher income persons, has a lot to do with convenience. When I am in Paris, where I was until recently involved in a business that took me there a few weeks every year, I would rarely take a taxi - it was time consuming, expensive and unreliable. On the other hand the Paris Metro, while always packed, was convenient (even with transfers), very timely (would always get you anywhere in metro Paris at 1/2 the time of a taxi or car), and very reliable. Unfortunately with Marta that cannot be said; even if one commutes on one of the main lines, say midtown to buckhead or perimeter, it is often irregular and time consuming. For some time in the 90's I took Marta to work every day, but had to give it up - I could not depend on it for getting me to the office on time.

There are those who argue that Atlanta is not laid out well for mass transit. This is IMO nonsense. Most transit oriented big cities sprawl in various directions and in response the developed transit systems sprawl with them. That is, the transit follows the ridership. Perhaps the only, or one of the few, that does this in the US is the D.C. Metro which curiously enough is supported heavily by all those politicians who give virtually no support to mass transit in the rest of the US. As we discuss this, London is busy adding yet another line to its highly integrated system and they have added new lines most every decade or so.

Mass transit does not need to be a system that is class bound as it has become in the US (Atlanta in this case), but unless the majority of potential commuters across all the income classes provide political and financial support for a comprehensive system and use it, we will get nowhere in producing a usable system. It is, IMO, important not to see this as just an Atlanta problem; this issue has to do with fundamental cultural and social attitudes of most Americans.

What does this have to do with the construction of high rise buildings and skyscrapers? As long as the majority of people who work in such buildings commute to them primarily by car there is little reason to locate them close together or bundle them. In fact to build a high rise in the suburbs or along a major highway makes perfect sense; you can have the advantage of your work staff in one building, in a park like setting, with a place for everyone to park their car. It is amusing to me that most often the average office worker has a much smaller office or cubicle than the space given over to their car. But, apparently most Americans like this arrangement and it is easy to predict that this pattern will be dominant for some time to come.

[delarosa]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

There are those who argue that Atlanta is not laid out well for mass transit. This is IMO nonsense. Most transit oriented big cities sprawl in various directions and in response the developed transit systems sprawl with them.

I think there are a few issues here. Of course public transit enjoys more support in European and other cultures and public policy, thus contributing to a market for public transit that works a little differently in less dense areas. But mostly I think the reason those systems have expanded is rooted in network economies of scale. In Paris, there is/was an extant, substantial investment in these systems in dense areas developed before autos and with an infrastructure that makes automobiles. And so expansion of these systems occurs due to a very different set of conditions and costs.

It's difficult to say the same about US cities. For example, though a little dates since it's 2008 data, it's very difficult to argue that there isn't an association...and certainly difficult to think of it as nonsensical.

http://austinzoning.typepad.com/austinco...tween-density-and-mode-of-commuting.html

To be sure, there's something to some variations in the cases of a few of the newer cities that didn't enjoy extant systems and more dense cores here in the US. But even still there the slightly higher than perhaps expected usage is just that...slightly higher. And think this would likewise translate into the extent of expansion in these cities as well.

[Blueiguy84]

Ok once upon a time I really liked coming to this forum. When did this thread go down the tubes. I can see the occasional off topic rant but it seems everything is off topic from construction. May I offer these other threads that are more on topic than a construction thread.

Atlanta transit
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=120809

Atlanta community discussion thread
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=152281

Atlanta PROJECT thread
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=180909

Do we have a moderator?

[Tuckerman]

[QUOTE=Blueiguy84;6234866]Ok once upon a time I really liked coming to this forum. When did this thread go down the tubes. I can see the occasional off topic rant but it seems everything is off topic from construction. May I offer these other threads that are more on topic than a construction thread.

While I agree that we should largely stick to construction, a case that I have made as well, these other threads have no life. In any case, my point was that our high rise construction is highly related to the use of mass transit. The proliferation of low density high rise building in suburban areas stems largely from the dependence on the car and the value of convenience.

In any case, once we start having a proliferation of high rise construction in the central city area we will not have to talk about these other co-dependent things.

[Zanarkand A East]

Mount Vernon lowers asking price to $15.5 million for new stadium (AJC)

Pending GWCCA approval and finding around $8M in private funding, Mayor Reed is a step closer to having more land for the south site. He also spent much of the press conference pointing fingers at Vincent Fort, Derrick Boazman, Family Dollar, and to a degree Morris Brown College. I wonder how the Falcons are enjoying the fireworks The Mayor says this will either happen or not within 10 days. Time will tell!

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by scania

Clearly you don't comprehend. Therefore don't respond to my replies.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Your original reply was better

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

Your original reply was better

I have to just laugh at comments like his...responding to something like that is useless. I think he forbade me from responding anyway.

[scania]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

I have to just laugh at comments like his...responding to something like that is useless. I think he forbade me from responding anyway.

Lets move on.