West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Some are, sure. That's a design choice or constraint. It's also something that says nothing about whether the technology is "outdated". The wheel is thousands of years old - does that make all transit outdated?

The wheel is thousands of years old, yet we can't even get that right!

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There are too few doors? Too few for what or whom?

Have you ever taken the Confederation Line at rush hour? I once missed my stop because the door was too far down the narrow aisle and crowds of people, and almost missed my stop a few other times. Now they've overcompensated by increasing the dwell times to ridiculous levels.

Look at the Mark III in Vancouver: 68 meters, 12 doors. We have 100 meter trains with 14 oddly spaced doors. Both trains have roughly the same capacity. Embarking and disembarking is much more fluid in Vancouver than it is here. The platform space in Ottawa is poorly utilized because of the door spacing.

That's more of a low-floor light-rail issue, and I guess that's my biggest complaint. Using low-floor lrt vehicles along a high capacity transit line makes little sense. Had we gone with a high floor model, might as well go all the way and build the most modern system available. The City loves to use the term "world-class", but it's shortsightedness and cheapness always results in mediocre at best.

Now I'm not quite sure why you're defending the system so much. Could you explain your position on the matter? Do you believe the Confederation Line, if ever functional, will be as good as the Skytrain or REM? Do you believe it's the absolute best system for Ottawa.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The C-Line probably would still not have opened if we added full automation and platform screens into the mix. More possibilities for failure.

We will see how REM launches.

It might not have been launched, but Confed was over a year late and still nowhere near reliable after two years from the original anticipated opening.

[OCCheetos]

I still think that if we took out any aisle seat that wasn't above a wheel well, it would really open up the inside of the trains. Same goes for our buses. But y'know, seats for suburbs...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I still think that if we took out any aisle seat that wasn't above a wheel well, it would really open up the inside of the trains. Same goes for our buses. But y'know, seats for suburbs...

I'm sure there are ways to improve the configuration, and the shit-show that we currently have might force the City's hand at some point.

[J.OT13]

A refreshingly pro-transit piece from Randall Denley.

Greg Fergus making his case for the Interprovincial Transit Loop with much more elegance than Mackinnon's sloppy campaign for a new road bridge in the east-end (which I agree is needed, but he's incapable of selling the project to municipal leaders).

Denley: With future of public transit in doubt, there's still value in an interprovincial system

Randall Denley
Publishing date:Aug 18, 2020


Alexandra-Bridge - May 5, 2011. DARREN BROWN / DARREN BROWN

These are challenging times for public transit in our region. Ottawa’s new LRT system has been an operational nightmare of almost unimaginable proportions. The pandemic has slashed city transit revenue by $123 million, calling into question the financial viability of public transit. Uncertainty about future office demand downtown has further destabilized transit’s future.

In the face of all of that, Gatineau’s public transit agency, the Société de transport de l’Outaouais (STO), is planning to build a $2.1-billion LRT service to carry Quebec commuters into downtown Ottawa. The plan will rely either on running trains down Wellington Street or digging another disruptive transit tunnel downtown.

Given the challenges transit faces, it might seem counterintuitive to argue that the problem with Gatineau’s plan is that it doesn’t go far enough. And yet, Hull-Aylmer MP Greg Fergus is doing just that. Fergus believes the plan to dump commuters off in downtown Ottawa is “a lovely start,” but the real goal should be to extend the proposed line to create a transit loop that would run past the Canadian Museum of History.

Such a connection is not a new idea, but it’s a good one. For too long, Ottawa and Gatineau planned transit in an un-coordinated way. That has made it more difficult than it needs to be for people to cross from one city to the other and we have collectively failed to create the kind of convenient tourist transit service that links major attractions in most cities of any consequence.

Fergus argues that a new rail line should cross the Ottawa River on the Alexandra Bridge, a 119-year-old link that is due for replacement sometime in this decade. It makes sense. If the bridge is being rebuilt anyway, it should be designed for transit.

The idea of a loop is on the radar of the STO, whose plan refers to “a potential future interprovincial loop with the Alexandra Bridge,” while noting technical issues where Wellington intersects with Mackenzie and Sussex.

“Sometimes I think we don’t do things because we don’t think it’s possible,” Fergus says. It’s a statement that summarizes the can’t-do attitude that has delayed the integration of what is really one, interprovincial city.


Museum of Canadian History. ANDRE FORGET/QMI AGENCY/ANDRE FORGET/QMI AGENCY

Fergus is starting to organize support among his political colleagues and civic leaders, with a more public presence expected in the fall. It’s good to see a local MP actively engaged with municipal issues, especially a tricky cross-border challenge of the sort that calls out for local federal political leadership. It’s a welcome contrast to the recent history of federal members ignoring the connection problem between the cities or actively working to prevent its improvement by fighting every bridge plan.

Fergus is starting to organize support among his political colleagues and civic leaders, with a more public presence expected in the fall. It’s good to see a local MP actively engaged with municipal issues, especially a tricky cross-border challenge of the sort that calls out for local federal political leadership. It’s a welcome contrast to the recent history of federal members ignoring the connection problem between the cities or actively working to prevent its improvement by fighting every bridge plan.

But with all the new challenges public transit is facing, is it still a good long-term investment? Fergus thinks so, and his take on it is a little different than the traditional rationale for public transit here. For both cities, the prime purpose of transit is getting workers from the suburbs to downtown. While that seems likely to be less of a priority in the future, Fergus says the real goal should be to enable people to live in the core without a car, and better transit is a key to that.

From an Ottawa perspective, the STO transit plan has some advantages. It will benefit the city by reducing STO buses on Wellington. Extending the rail line would make a car-free life downtown easier and potentially boost our tourism sector.

Plus, the longer rail line wouldn’t cost city taxpayers anything. The Quebec and federal governments are expected to pay the whole bill. That’s certainly a far cry from the “deal” that Ottawa got, with the city picking up more than one-third of the LRT cost.

At the very least, it would make sense to weigh the costs and benefits of a more complete interprovincial transit system now, while the Gatineau project is in its formative stages. That should be an easy decision for the federal government to make.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa political commentator and author of the new mystery Payback, available at randalldenley.com Contact him at [email protected].

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/de...box=1597795407

[lrt's friend]

An interprovincial transit loop needs to consider using it to develop an improved urban transit network on both sides of the river.

Yes, we need to make it possible for downtown residents to live without a car, but ultimately we need to dream more broadly than that.

We can no longer depend on commuters therefore, we need to have a bigger vision for both downtown and the city as a whole. To design a better city and to allow more people to move around to various destinations efficiently without the only real choice being a car.

[DEWLine]

We all need to be able to move around both sides of the river freely.

[The Conductor]

We NEED a line built under Bank Street!!! It will align with the denser parts of the "urban" areas.

If a Bank St O-Train tunnel line is built they should bring The Boring Company of Elon Musk, at $10 million a mile makes sense. The financial and political investments need to be made to have a couple more stations along Bank between Parliament and Glebe.

Connecting to the Stadium and Billings Bridge make sense.

Relocating the bus station to Tremblay/Via Rail may render the current bus station a site for high-rise redevelopment which is NEEDED!

[The Conductor]

We also NEED a Rideau St through Montreal Rd to Montreal Station spur line and this would actually cause a gentrification of Montreal Rd with a lot of new development which is really the one part of Ottawa that is in desperate need of this

[caboose]

The Boring Company tunnel option is an interesting idea - the subway would have to be smaller though - more like a deep tube London Underground train. Boring company tunnels are designed to be 12 foot internal diameter. deep tube tunnels have an 11'10 internal diameter.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

We also NEED a Rideau St through Montreal Rd to Montreal Station spur line and this would actually cause a gentrification of Montreal Rd with a lot of new development which is really the one part of Ottawa that is in desperate need of this

Gentrification isn't always a good thing. Look at Eglinton West, aka Little Jamaica, in Toronto. Now that they're building LRT and condo builders are coming in, the Black/Caribbean businesses are getting priced out of the area and the character of the street is going with it. I wouldn't want to see Montreal Road attract a Starbucks and other big chain businesses.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Gentrification isn't always a good thing. Look at Eglinton West, aka Little Jamaica, in Toronto. Now that they're building LRT and condo builders are coming in, the Black/Caribbean businesses are getting priced out of the area and the character of the street is going with it. I wouldn't want to see Montreal Road attract a Starbucks and other big chain businesses.

It could be a positive gentrification like Hintonburg, which has some corporate cafes but also lots of local restaurants and stores, if done right.

[The Conductor]

Possible stations on Bank St

[The Conductor]

Originally Posted by caboose

It could be a positive gentrification like Hintonburg, which has some corporate cafes but also lots of local restaurants and stores, if done right.

I agree, having the O-Train through Rideau and Montreal Rd would help boost development in a positive way and would actually move a ton of people around via O-Train

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by caboose

It could be a positive gentrification like Hintonburg, which has some corporate cafes but also lots of local restaurants and stores, if done right.

Gentrification necessarily involves displacement. It's really not a good thing. Pricing out the existing, poor, politically marginalized residents via property speculation, etc etc., to make way for people who have capital, and the interests they pursue with their capital.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

Gentrification necessarily involves displacement. It's really not a good thing. Pricing out the existing, poor, politically marginalized residents via property speculation, etc etc., to make way for people who have capital, and the interests they pursue with their capital.

A requirement for builders could be to have a minimum of 20% of affordable units in any of the properties they build.

[caboose]

Originally Posted by The Conductor

Possible stations on Bank St

I like the idea of having an intermodal station at Billings Bridge. It could take some of the Southeast Transitway passengers to downtown.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

Gentrification necessarily involves displacement. It's really not a good thing. Pricing out the existing, poor, politically marginalized residents via property speculation, etc etc., to make way for people who have capital, and the interests they pursue with their capital.

Well the whole city was more or less poor at one point. The Francophone population in the east was not necessarily politically marginalized and in Ottawa at least in many areas they owned their homes so are still in New Edinburgh and especially Vanier.

You can argue Capitalism sucks but compared to what? Regardless what is a solution to prevent gentrification that doesn't do more damage? Strong rent control is one option but like all regulation this has other effects.

The key is a good equal education system that allows people to "gentrify"
their own neighbourhood as they get good jobs. I think again the Francophone population of Ottawa is a good example of this.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

You can argue Capitalism sucks but compared to what? Regardless what is a solution to prevent gentrification that doesn't do more damage?

Economic and social justice for all? Capitalism is literally the cause of this phenomenon. It is land speculation at the expense of those who cannot compete in terms of capital investment. People are currently being displaced because their homes are geographically well situated. This happens if you rent or own, as property tax is tied to home value, which rises as gentrification runs its course. Capital improvements come along after as a result of the new, monied residents attracting a greater variety of services. Capital improvements alone does not constitute gentrification. We could achieve the same result by improving the economic standing of the existing residents.

We could guarantee housing to all, invest in our cities and build housing rather then letting the market throttle supply at the expense of everyone. Prevent speculation in the property market. Reject the commodity status of a basic necessity.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by caboose

A requirement for builders could be to have a minimum of 20% of affordable units in any of the properties they build.

This could be a good 'moderate' demand. I prefer to aim big

[caboose]

Originally Posted by JayBuoy

This could be a good 'moderate' demand. I prefer to aim big

I think 20% is a good balance. It makes it so that there is a meaningful number of spaces without making it unattractive for the builder.