Burnaby Updates

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Vin

Again, more progressive news coming out of Burnaby. Three cheers!

p.s. And did I hear more "malls"?

No, literally the exact opposite. The plan would clear the way for redevelopment of malls into mixed use development.

Also, the progressive news mainly involves realigning much of the street to a grid similar in size and layout to Vancouver's and promoting more Vancouver style mixed use development.

Three cheers indeed!

[officedweller]

In a way, the "problem" with Metrotown is that there isn't enough surface parking lot to subdivide and build on.

Here's what you could do with the mall buildings in place.
for expanding the "downtown" north of Kingsway, it doesn't help that most condo towers on that side are "towers in the park"

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Ideally Metropolis should be redeveloped piecemeal and given a shape more like Brentwood (or even Station Square next door) and become a mall but focused on high streets. It would be great if all the high streets were pedestrian only and covered in a big glass canopy. That would make the area so much more walkable and also quite iconic.

I'm more fond of the "covered shopping mall", as Metro Vancouver's climate is wet, and people don't like to be outside when it's wet and/or windy outside. But I'm not opposed to how Brentwood is developing (it actually looks like one of the 1977 Metrotown plan sketches (see below.) But it's also TINY. The main thing is that the Metropolis covered mall is "now" actually considered one mall even though it's actually 3 properties (Metropolis (West), Metrotown (South East), and Sears (North East))


( https://www.burnaby.ca/Assets/city+s...d+Original.pdf page 46, "mixed use")

The trend has been to not build large covered malls in favor of the ugly big-box stores with massive parking lots. Because, like with residential and office space "hallways" are a waste of space, but unlike a residential property, you need that space for the pedestrian flow. Like I really appreciate the 1977 Metrotown plan's far thinking, even though we didn't really end up with what was planned.



Had we kept a little closer to what was planned, there would have been residential and hotel towers on the core property or an underground shopping concourse to the residential towers on the south side of the Skytrain station, north of Kingsway, and east on Bennet to connect to the community center and towers there. Metro Tower I/II/III are connected by the underground parking lots and the surface open area on the south side of Metropolis.

Also on the news earlier with the Vancouver Giants moving from Pacific Coliseum to Langley, apparently Metro Vancouver has a shortage of event/convention space if an anchor tenant can move and the operator isn't even worried (in fact events are worth more than the sports events.)

[officedweller]

As a side note, here are a couple pics of the Langley Events Cnetre:


http://www.enercorp.ca/Langley%20Events%20Centre.html


http://www.nightelect.com/

[logan5]

It's stunning that the City of Burnaby thinks that building tower after tower is the right course to take towards creating a diverse and pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. The more towers they build, the more homogenized Metrotown becomes, and incredibly their plan is to continue to tear down walk-ups and replace them with towers. If you look at any vibrant, walk-able neighbourhood in Vancouver, you will find that they all have a large supply of affordable walk-ups. Metrotown is becoming some out-of-control Frankenstein.

This is both hilarious and sad...

In the blocks behind Kingsway, it would allow for a swath of low-rise apartment blocks to be replaced by four-to-12-storey towers (that process has already begun) and make the area more pedestrian friendly with new plazas and the like. The goal, the plan states, is “to establish an exciting, inclusive, and sustainable downtown for Burnaby; one comprised of well-connected neighbourhoods that provide a sense of place and community identity."

[GilmoreStation]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's stunning that the City of Burnaby thinks that building tower after tower is the right course to take towards creating a diverse and pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. The more towers they build, the more homogenized Metrotown becomes, and incredibly their plan is to continue to tear down walk-ups and replace them with towers. If you look at any vibrant, walk-able neighbourhood in Vancouver, you will find that they all have a large supply of affordable walk-ups. Metrotown is becoming some out-of-control Frankenstein.

This is both hilarious and sad...

This will help to speed up the beautification of Kingsway

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by TourOdeon

This is the Concord Pacific's way of selling their developments. In fact, MET 1 & MET 2's sales centre had been located in Downtown the entire time.
http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/1...-in-vancouver/

That's before they were kicked out for doing that and forced to take them down after people complained as the article notes.

Vancouver has a law against doing that sort of thing (advertising in Vancouver for properties not actually located in Vancouver).

Burnaby on the other hand doesn't.

Hence the reason they can put their sales center for the Concord Brentwood project all the way in Metrotown at the Sears storefront.

It makes more sense to put it there anyway since Metrotown gets way higher people traffic than anywhere else in Burnaby.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by urbancanadian

I'm really having a hard time picturing where a convention centre could go in the Metrotown area...

Convention centres are extremely pedestrian-unfriendly and should be kept to the "edge" of the town centre if possible. In most cities, the area around a convention centre is pretty dead - they usually create a bit of a void of activity. Our convention centre downtown is an oddball in that it hasn't created the same problems that others do......

That's because of its location.

It's more or less centrally located, and being at the Waterfront adjacent to a couple of high end hotels means with lots of tourists means it's always going to have high people traffic.

The Los Angeles Convention center is also in a similar situation since it's situated right next door to Staples Center and not that far from Nokia Center and the Grammy museum - between all the LA Lakers and Kings games at Staples and the concerts at the Nokia center and the Grammy museum, and being located on Figueroa ave. - they are virtually guaranteed always having people and activity around even when there's no big event happening at the convention center itself.
Traffic on game days is a bitch, though.
As you would expect.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's stunning that the City of Burnaby thinks that building tower after tower is the right course to take towards creating a diverse and pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. The more towers they build, the more homogenized Metrotown becomes, and incredibly their plan is to continue to tear down walk-ups and replace them with towers. If you look at any vibrant, walk-able neighbourhood in Vancouver, you will find that they all have a large supply of affordable walk-ups. Metrotown is becoming some out-of-control Frankenstein.

This is both hilarious and sad...

Towers are not necessarily the enemy of walkability and pedestrian friendly neighbourhoods though; it's all about the design at street level. I think that an important element that Burnaby is missing is a stronger scene for small businesses, as those add life to the street. And those can be incorporated at ground level if the highrises allow for it.

Then again, it's pretty hard to compete against metrotown in terms of sale of goods. So it depends...

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

No, literally the exact opposite. The plan would clear the way for redevelopment of malls into mixed use development.

Also, the progressive news mainly involves realigning much of the street to a grid similar in size and layout to Vancouver's and promoting more Vancouver style mixed use development.

Three cheers indeed!

I think we have a totally different definition of malls. I don't mean strip malls. I mean multi-storeyed covered retail centres and malls, with hotels, condos or office buildings above them. That would be inclusive of the mixed-use developments that I love to see.

Vancouver started out with lots of mixed use developments until the 80s - Bentall Centre, Oakridge mall, Pacific Centre, etc. Since then, there have not been too many mixed-use developments until recent years, which has seen a little resurgence in the likes of Vancouver House and Burrard Place: before that, 2 whole decades of wasted opportunities.

When they say turning Kingsway into the likes of Vancouver or New-Westminster, I don't imagine they actually meant town home podiums and street only retail right? Many of such developments are borderline failures when it comes to transforming streets into lively gathering places. Vancouver's liveliest neighbourhoods today are all carved out from the 80s and before (Granville St, Robson St, Gastown, etc), when there were fewer restrictions to land usage, heights of buildings, types of businesses, etc.

I'm hoping Burnaby can be way more innovative.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's stunning that the City of Burnaby thinks that building tower after tower is the right course to take towards creating a diverse and pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. The more towers they build, the more homogenized Metrotown becomes, and incredibly their plan is to continue to tear down walk-ups and replace them with towers. If you look at any vibrant, walk-able neighbourhood in Vancouver, you will find that they all have a large supply of affordable walk-ups. Metrotown is becoming some out-of-control Frankenstein.

This is both hilarious and sad...

Towers after towers with mixed use developments have turned downtown Vancouver (except West End) into one of the most liveable and liveliest downtowns in North America.

Generic residential-only towers have turned Joyce-Collingwood area into a rather dead zone.

So yeah, it really depends on how high-rises are designed and used.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

It's stunning that the City of Burnaby thinks that building tower after tower is the right course to take towards creating a diverse and pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. The more towers they build, the more homogenized Metrotown becomes, and incredibly their plan is to continue to tear down walk-ups and replace them with towers. If you look at any vibrant, walk-able neighbourhood in Vancouver, you will find that they all have a large supply of affordable walk-ups. Metrotown is becoming some out-of-control Frankenstein.

This is both hilarious and sad...

That's why I prefer the Brentwood-to Be. Metrotown, despite some impressive high rises and the like, has a "harshness" to it that I don't find at Brentwood.
Skytrain cuts Metrotown at an angle, kind of taking away any pleasant symmetry. Kingsway seems to remain ugly, somehow. It was always a piece of grotesque trash
and has a hard, slow, moulting, and recontructing process to undergo.
Metrotown, already with green space at one end I admit, could use a bit more, even pathways and lit grass and trees between buildings to soften it.
Brentwood has a planned major plaza, a more even symmetry, equally, if not taller buildings, and just a"pleasanter" feel to it IMHO.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That's why I prefer the Brentwood-to Be. Metrotown, despite some impressive high rises and the like, has a "harshness" to it that I don't find at Brentwood.
Skytrain cuts Metrotown at an angle, kind of taking away any pleasant symmetry. Kingsway seems to remain ugly, somehow. It was always a piece of grotesque trash
and has a hard, slow, moulting, and recontructing process to undergo.
Metrotown, already with green space at one end I admit, could use a bit more, even pathways and lit grass and trees between buildings to soften it.
Brentwood has a planned major plaza, a more even symmetry, equally, if not taller buildings, and just a"pleasanter" feel to it IMHO.

I think what they are talking about is:

1) Zoning for retail and mixed use not only on Kingsway, but also on Central Boulevard (partially there) and on Grange (no retail there now). Given that Grange is almost all developed on the south side I am guessing that they might zone the first block north of Grange for higher density. You don't need retail on every side street. It is enough to have retail and office of major streets and some intersections.

2) Slowly converting mall surface parking lots into "streets" very similar to what is being done to Station Square (although Station Square still IMHO suffers from connectivity issues to the rest of the metrotown complex) and Sears parking lots.

Unfortunately I do not see how there are going to solve north-south connectivity with the mall being there, especially since the latest mall addition has effectively fused the two parts of the mall into one entity.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

Towers after towers with mixed use developments have turned downtown Vancouver (except West End) into one of the most liveable and liveliest downtowns in North America.

Generic residential-only towers have turned Joyce-Collingwood area into a rather dead zone.

So yeah, it really depends on how high-rises are designed and used.

Name one vibrant street in downtown Vancouver that is lined with towers. Name 1 street in Canada.

Kits, South Granville, Mt. Pleasant, Commercial Dr., Kerrisdale, Lonsdale all have affordable walk-ups and other forms of lower cost housing. That's not a coincidence.

If you think that the generic retail that comes with towers will somehow slowly evolve into something more colourful and vibrant, it doesn't happen. There are sections of generic retail along Main St that have been around for close to 30 years now, and these sections are still dead zones.

The best case scenario for Metrotown is becoming another North York City Centre.

[Klazu]

I have now been driving Willington Avenue for few days and it is really busy during rush hour! Considering that it is the main arterial in and out of Metrotown, it is pretty ridiculous how half of the street is four lanes + "HOV lanes" (basically just bus lanes - haven't seen 6-person HOV lanes anywhere else). Rest of the route is just four lanes with lots of traffic lights and no left-turn bays.

That street is by no means suitable for its job and will get even worse as the population and traffic grows. Brentwood has it much better with Willington Avenue being 3+3 lanes all the way from Highway 1 (yes, two of the lanes are currently bus lanes, but can be converted if later needed).

I don't really see any big event space going in Metrotown due to the poor road connections. Skytrain isn't everything and Brentwood has it as well.

[BobLoblawsLawBlog]

Originally Posted by logan5

The best case scenario for Metrotown is becoming another North York City Centre.

Okay, I actually see Brentwood becoming a North York. Metrotown doesn't have any highways, big box stores or industrial parks both North York and Brentwood share. Metrotown has other nice neighbourhoods around it like Royal Oak and Central Park around it that Brentwood lacks.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

Name one vibrant street in downtown Vancouver that is lined with towers. Name 1 street in Canada.

Kits, South Granville, Mt. Pleasant, Commercial Dr., Kerrisdale, Lonsdale all have affordable walk-ups and other forms of lower cost housing. That's not a coincidence.

If you think that the generic retail that comes with towers will somehow slowly evolve into something more colourful and vibrant, it doesn't happen. There are sections of generic retail along Main St that have been around for close to 30 years now, and these sections are still dead zones.

The best case scenario for Metrotown is becoming another North York City Centre.

Yes.

1. West Georgia street with mixed use structures from Thurlow to the Library Square. It's lined with towers and always very busy.

2. Burrard Street from Scotia Bank theatre all the way down to the CBD. Again extremely busy with many mixed-use high rise office towers, condos and hotels.

3. Granville Street from Robson down to Dunsmuir. You got it, mixed-used again.


Like you pointed out, sections of Main are dead because they are in low-density neighbourhoods (ie. no towers) and the structures there are hardly mixed-use. However, closer to Broadway and Kingsway neighbourhood, where there are a lot more mixed-use high-density taller structures, the scenery changes dramatically.

[Sheba]

Burnaby has a bunch of public hearings on May 31:

Rezoning Reference #15-30
High Rise Apartment Tower With Street-Oriented Townhouses
Brentwood Town Centre Plan

Rezoning Reference #14-44
High Rise Strata Apartment, High Rise Rental Apartment And Low Rise Church
(this is the Metrotown area one we've talked about)

Rezoning Reference #15-22
Expansion To Existing Light Industrial Development
Big Bend Development Plan

Rezoning Reference #15-10
Four-Storey Mixed-Use Development
Sixth Street Community Plan

Rezoning Reference #14-12
Five-Storey Mixed-Use Development
Hastings Street Area Plan

Rezoning Reference #14-21
Conceptual Master Plan Gilmore Station Area
Brentwood Town Centre Development Plan

Rezoning Reference #15-15
Two High Rise Apartment Buildings With Low Rise Commercial Podium

[hotwheels]

Brentwood one plus two seems to be quite the big development :S (via SRC)

[Sheba]

A bit more info on these:

Rezoning Reference #14-21
Conceptual Master Plan Gilmore Station Area
Brentwood Town Centre Development Plan

4161/71 Dawson and 4120/60/70/80 Lougheed
Conceptual Master Plan and detailed Phase I development plan for multi-phased high-density mixed-use development

Rezoning Reference #15-30
High Rise Apartment Tower With Street-Oriented Townhouses
Brentwood Town Centre Plan

2242 Alpha Avenue
Multi-family residential building with above and below grade structured parking

Rezoning Reference #15-15
Two High Rise Apartment Buildings With Low Rise Commercial Podium

2085 and 2088 Skyline Court (SOLO District)
The proposed amendment rezoning is to permit changes to the architectural treatment of the buildings, allow for the reconfiguration of unit types, and allow for additional commercial floor area within Phases 3 and 4 to permit a new fitness facility, larger restaurant and patio space and 1,937.03 m2 (20,850 sq.ft.) of office floor area.

Rezoning Reference #14-12
Five-Storey Mixed-Use Development
Hastings Street Area Plan

3700 Hastings Street
Four storey mixed-use building and two levels of underground parking

Rezoning Reference #14-44
High Rise Strata Apartment, High Rise Rental Apartment And Low Rise Church

6050 Sussex Avenue, ptn of McKercher Avenue ROW, 4769 Hazel Street and 4758 Grange Street
Construction of a high-rise residential building and a new church facility for the West Burnaby United Church at 6050 Sussex Avenue, as well as an infill, market rental project comprised of a high-rise tower at 4769 Hazel Street and townhomes at 4758 Grange Street

Rezoning Reference #15-10
Four-Storey Mixed-Use Development
Sixth Street Community Plan

7911/15/23 Edmonds Street and 7908 Wedgewood Street
Four store mixed-use commercial/residential development

I couldn't find anything on:
Rezoning Reference #15-22
Expansion To Existing Light Industrial Development
Big Bend Development Plan