The future of Hamilton's public transit - Page 41

SteelTown · #**801** Posted **Apr 13, 2008, 3:54 PM**

"In fact, a feasibility study done in 2006 estimates GO Transit bus service linking Niagara with Hamilton would carry roughly 2,800 passengers a day."

hamiltonguy · #**802** Posted **Apr 13, 2008, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Why does Niagara want GO service when they have much faster VIA RAIL?
I don't understand this. People do not want to sit on a GO TRAN for over two hours to get to Toronto, when VIA RAIL does it in like just over an hour.

GO TRAINS from Hamilton are already very slow, and the car and GO BUS can easily beat the train, except during peak traffic conditions.

If I was Niagara, I would stick with VIA. Niagara is just getting to far out, for commuter rail to serve.

1) Go Train wouldn't take 2 hours to most of Niagara(unless you were comming from the falls as opposed to Grimsby), as it barely takes 1 from Hamilton

2)VIA fares are not targeted towards everyday commuters.

3)Not all commuters from Niagara are going to Toronto. Some might be going to Hamilton (Afterall Grimsby is part of Hamilton's CMA), Halton or Peel, which are closer.

4) The Trains are not that much slower off-peak, and "peak hours" are expanding every year. Plus the trains provide many intermediate stops which can't be offered by bus service.

SteelTown · #**803** Posted **Apr 13, 2008, 5:21 PM**

From all indication if there where GO Train service to the Niagara Region it would start in Niagara Falls and end in Hamilton.

If Niagara commuters wish to continue on and go to the GTA and TO they would have to hop on another GO Train in Hamilton heading towards the GTA. But that's probably 5 to 10 years away from now.

Its likely GO Bus to the Niagara Region will happen within the short term to Hamilton and than Niagara commuters could take the Toronto Express GO Bus or the GO Train to the GTA.

SteelTown · #**804** Posted **Apr 13, 2008, 8:54 PM**

As I mentioned in the Ontario thread, the streetcar that used to go along Barton was called the Belt Line. Wouldn't it be perfect it we could re-lunch the Belt Line with replica streetcars for Barton? Would be symbolic and awesome.

markbarbera · #**805** Posted **Apr 13, 2008, 11:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

You're assuming noone from Niagara wants/needs to come to Hamilton, or vice-versa.

I just looked up on the Via Rail website and they state that it'll take 1h 50m for a VIA trip from NF to Toronto, and a one-way ticket costs almost $35. VIA has stop-overs that add to the commuting time.

With GO service it would probably take only 20 minutes longer to go from NF to Toronto (compared to VIA) and the cost would probably be around 2x the price of a trip from Hamilton to Toronto ($9 x 2 = $18). It's worth an extra 20 minutes commute to save $15+. Imagine the amount of money being saved only a monthly basis.

I can easily forsee weekday rush hour service from Niagara in the mornings making local stops in Grimsby, Winona, Stoney Creek/East Hamilton and Hamilton Bayfront, then running express from Bayfront to Union. Off-peak, the Niagara line could run hourly between Niagara Falls and Hamilton, timed to connect with the hourly Lakeshore West line.

SteelTown · #**806** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 12:44 AM**

So lets say there's a vote for approval for the Rapid Transit Office to officially endorse LRT for the B-Line which councillors do you think would support it?

For sure definitely.....
Bob Bratina (DUH!)
Brian McHattie (again DUH!)
Sam Merulla
Mayor Fred

Likely support LRT for B-Line
Chad Collins (maybe should be a definitely)

Unsure
Bernie Morelli (probably supports it)
Tom Jackson (during the CHML interview with Bill Kelly he seemed positive)
Scott Duvall
Terry Whitehead
Brad Clark (was Minster of Transportation so he should know the benefits of LRT)
Maria Pearson
David L. Mitchell
Lloyd Ferguson
Russ Powers
Robert Pasuta

Likely against LRT
Margaret McCarthy

Need 8 votes to pass a majority.

We gotta email these councillors to hear their opinions. I'll email Whitehead. The ones unsure we gotta do mass emailing like we did during the transit rate increase.

markbarbera · #**807** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 1:07 AM**

I have a fear that this may turn into a classic old Hamilton vs. the former municipalities making up the new city's outer rim. Unfortunately, if it does turn that way, the disproportionate representation of the suburbs and exurbs could kill something that a clear majority of Hamilton's citizens want, and a project this city desperately needs as a catalyst to kickstart urban redevelopment.

hamiltonguy · #**808** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 1:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

So lets say there's a vote for approval for the Rapid Transit Office to officially endorse LRT for the B-Line which councillors do you think would support it?

For sure definitely.....
Bob Bratina (DUH!)
Brian McHattie (again DUH!)
Sam Merulla
Mayor Fred

Likely support LRT for B-Line
Chad Collins (maybe should be a definitely)

Unsure
Bernie Morelli (probably supports it)
Tom Jackson (during the CHML interview with Bill Kelly he seemed positive)
Scott Duvall
Terry Whitehead
Brad Clark (was Minster of Transportation so he should know the benefits of LRT)
Maria Pearson
David L. Mitchell
Lloyd Ferguson
Russ Powers
Robert Pasuta

Likely against LRT
Margaret McCarthy

Need 8 votes to pass a majority.

We gotta email these councillors to hear their opinions. I'll email Whitehead. The ones unsure we gotta do mass emailing like we did during the transit rate increase.

I think we can move Duvall and Clark into the Likely column as they've been fairly consistantly pro-transit with a few exceptions.

Bernie Morelli can probably be moved up there too seeing as the line would run through his ward.

I'd move Mitchell down to Likely against, unless he's given LRT to the Airport as well.

hamiltonguy · #**809** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 1:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

I think we can move Duvall and Clark into the Likely column as they've been fairly consistantly pro-transit with a few exceptions.

Bernie Morelli can probably be moved up there too seeing as the line would run through his ward.

I'd move Mitchell down to Likely against, unless he's given LRT to the Airport as well.

I just realized that you'd have 8 if I'm correct.

Excellent...

FairHamilton · #**810** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 2:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

Express from Hamilton to Union Station with no stops in between? That wouldn't be an effecient use of a train. The best case scenario would be doing only the major stops... Hamilton -- Burlington -- Oakville -- Toronto (and back the other way in the evening).

I didn't mean Hamilton - Union only, but rather GO's definition of express. Which does a few stops (i.e. Hamilton Centre, Aldershot, Burlington - maybe Appleby) along the way and then bypasses other stops on it's way to final destination.

Pretty much as you describe, though the stops would be grouped to provide a longer distance uninterrupted by stops leaving more time at top speed.

raisethehammer · #**811** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 2:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamiltonguy

I just realized that you'd have 8 if I'm correct.

Excellent...

Ferguson, Mitchell and McCarthy will be against....as they always are with anything that benefits the city.
I don't see any reason why the rest of them wouldn't support it other than good old fashioned politics - some of them are slowly banding around Clark and Jackson as possible mayoral candidates in the next election and it's starting to affect voting. People voting based on how Fred, Brad and Tom all vote.

Lets hope we can avoid that usual Hamilton bullcrap for once and just do the right thing for the ENTIRE city. If the suburbanites want to see their taxes lowered there's only one way to do that - increase the tax base. LRT benefits them even though they'll never use it.

SteelTown · #**812** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 2:50 AM**

I can see Brad and Tom voting for LRT for the B-Line.

Just hope some councillors wont use this vote as a way to demostrate their disregard for Mayor Fred leadership style, or complete lack off.

I hope Russ Powers supports LRT for B-Line as itll go to parts of Dundas. The same for Pearson with Eastgate.

raisethehammer · #**813** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 2:51 AM**

I doubt phase 1 will take LRT to dundas. probably Mac to Eastgate.

SteelTown · #**814** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 2:54 AM**

Actually I would think LRT for B-Line will have two phases, Phase 1 Mac to Downtown and Phase 2 Downtown to Eastgate.

hamiltonguy · #**815** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 3:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Ferguson, Mitchell and McCarthy will be against....as they always are with anything that benefits the city.
I don't see any reason why the rest of them wouldn't support it other than good old fashioned politics - some of them are slowly banding around Clark and Jackson as possible mayoral candidates in the next election and it's starting to affect voting. People voting based on how Fred, Brad and Tom all vote.

Lets hope we can avoid that usual Hamilton bullcrap for once and just do the right thing for the ENTIRE city. If the suburbanites want to see their taxes lowered there's only one way to do that - increase the tax base. LRT benefits them even though they'll never use it.

I generally wouldn't mind Brad as a Mayor. Jackson I would. I still prefer Bratina, McHattie or Eisenberger over both of them (take a pick)

I don't think Brad will run for mayor next election if he's smart. Conservative on Conservative feuds never end well...

On numbers.

So we've got it estimated at

4 Sure things: (Bratina, McHattie, Eisenberger, and Merulla)

5 Probable: (Morelli, Duvall, Jackson, Collins, Clark)

4 Maybes: (Whitehead, Powers, Pearson, Pasuta)

3 No-Ways: (Ferguson, Mitchell, McCarthy)

Things look pretty good. I think we should focus lobbying on the probables, and to a lesser extent the maybes and the sure things.

As long as the probables vote our way we're safe.

HAMRetrofit · #**816** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 3:50 AM**

Lobby them all.

JT Jacobs · #**817** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 4:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I can easily forsee weekday rush hour service from Niagara in the mornings making local stops in Grimsby, Winona, Stoney Creek/East Hamilton and Hamilton Bayfront, then running express from Bayfront to Union. Off-peak, the Niagara line could run hourly between Niagara Falls and Hamilton, timed to connect with the hourly Lakeshore West line.

I agree. Southern Ontario has an enormous population that is constantly surgint into Toronto and environs. Ontario's rail system is twenty years behind the demographic needs. We should have high speed rail from Windsor to Quebec City. GO service from Niagara through Hamilton to Toronto shouldn't be a problem.

SteelTown · #**818** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 11:33 AM**

LOL, probably would increase ridership in this city.

Jon Dalton · #**819** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 1:23 PM**

RE: Hunter St.

Having thought they had canned this whole idea, it was a very pleasant surprise to open up the Spec to this news! I'd seriously thought all the money was going to James North and Hunter would be left where it is.

This gives us some reassurance that the province is investing in Hunter St and ultimately it will serve as more than a commuter station.

That one additional outbound train mentioned in the Spec was within GO's capability even without the layover facility. With that in place, they should be able to run twice as many trains in the future.

markbarbera · #**820** Posted **Apr 14, 2008, 4:10 PM**

And the layover facility is being built not a moment too soon. Cancellations of AM rush hour trains out of Hamilton GO Centre are becoming a daily occurrence.