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  #801  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 4:55 AM
Paul305 Paul305 is offline
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I feel bad for the architect that designed 900 Biscayne. The developers completely butchered it by cost-engineering the crown out of the design. I can't even look at those four buildings anymore without cringing at the sight of 900...
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  #802  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 9:58 AM
EAINMIAMI EAINMIAMI is offline
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[QUOTE=VisionMIA;3437262]to ease your mind...900 Biscayne was scaled down to 649 feet...the older rendering was 712..would've been taller. Marquis from what I was told on SSC went back to it's original plans to reach 698' feet.

Thank you very much for answering my question !
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  #803  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 4:22 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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This doesn't look good. I like the Empire World Towers, though.

Woes in Condo Market Build As New Supply Floods Cities

By Jennifer S. Forsyth and Jonathan Karp
From The Wall Street Journal Online

The condominium market is about to get worse as many cities brace for a flood of new supply this year -- the result of construction started at the height of the housing boom.

More than 4,000 new units will be completed in both Atlanta and Phoenix by the end of the year. Developers in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, Fla., are readying nearly 10,000 total new units in a market already struggling with canyons of unsold condos. San Diego, another hard-hit region, will add 2,500 units, according to estimates provided by Reis Inc., a New York-based real-estate-research firm.


Artist's rendering of the Onyx on the Bay complex in Miami.
The new building comes on top of unprecedented supply. The U.S. finished 2007 with a supply of condos large enough to absorb 10 months of demand, the highest level since the National Association of Realtors began the tally in 1999.

The deluge means bad news for developers and potentially lower prices, including in cities such as Atlanta and Dallas that have avoided the worst of the housing bust. If defaults and foreclosures rise, lenders will feel the pain too.

Regulators have been sounding the alarm for weeks about the exposure of small and mid-size banks to commercial real estate, which mostly means construction loans to developers of condos and single-family housing.

Lenders of all sizes have $42 billion of condominium debt on their books, according to Foresight Analytics. In just three months -- between the third and fourth quarters of last year -- the delinquency rate rose to 10% from 5.9%, says the Oakland, Calif., research firm.

The news isn't bad for everyone. Vulture buyers have started to circle, hoping to take advantage of foreclosed properties that banks may start dumping at fire-sale prices. Also, some condos are being converted to rental units, increasing supply for renters and putting downward pressure on prices.

It may seem surprising that anyone would want to add supply to a market whose troubles have been well-publicized for many months. But the economics of condo building encourage developers to bring half-finished projects to completion, even when prices and demand are plunging.

Developers usually put up their own money for a project first, then spend borrowed funds. Once developers have spent their money and have commitments from lenders, they have a strong incentive to keep building to finish the project.

"These developers had millions of dollars tied up and they had them financed so they just moved forward," says J. Ronald Terwilliger, chief executive of Trammell Crow Residential, which builds many rental apartment buildings and also a few condos. "What they hope is that by the time the project is finished the market comes back."

Shelving Projects

However, developers and lenders can more easily shelve projects that are still in the early stages. Many developments nationwide are being canceled, suggesting that by next year or 2010, the number of new condos coming onto the market may slow to a trickle.

One big question hanging over the market is how many of the buyers who have put down deposits during construction will show up to close the deal. Some deposits were as little as 3% of the purchase price. The price of a condo has frequently fallen more than the amount of the deposit, giving the buyer an incentive to forfeit the deposit.

For example, if a buyer put down $50,000 for a unit priced at $500,000, and the value falls to $400,000, the buyer is apt to walk away -- or find some fault with the unit and sue the developer to get the deposit back. Furthermore, some buyers who still want to move in are finding that they no longer qualify for mortgage loans.

In Miami, only 57 units in the 118-unit Onyx on the Bay have closed since August 2007, leaving the remaining 61 units in the possession of the developer, according to Miami-Dade County records. Willy Bermello, the Onyx's developer, could not be reached.

The deteriorating economy isn't helping. "When the world goes to hell in a handbasket, the last thing anyone wants to buy is a condo," says Cathy Schlegel, a mortgage-loan broker in Fort Worth, Texas, whose condo in a high-rise called The Tower sat on the market for 14 months before she finally sold it at a loss in February.

The rising supply is a reflection of the picture in 2004 through 2006 -- a time of huge demand for condos. Speculation was rampant as investors believed empty nesters and young professionals seeking an urban experience akin to what they watched on "Friends" would prop up the condo market for years.

Most projects take about three years from the time they are marketed to potential buyers to the time they are ready to be moved into. Deposits help developers get a construction loan that is to be paid off when the buyers close on their new condos years later.

However, cancellations are rising, meaning developers may not be able to pay back their banks. Peter Zalewski, founder of Condo Vultures Realty LLC in Miami, says condo developers he is working with are expecting 20% to 40% of buyers who put down deposits to walk away from the deal. In some areas, such as inland buildings and new projects along the river in Miami "walkaways" are expected to be even higher.

Unlike single-family housing, condos tend to be concentrated in certain areas, meaning the pain is limited to pockets of the country.

In Jacksonville, Fla., developer Cameron Kuhn had planned to redevelop the SunTrust office tower into office condos as part of a larger complex that included residential condos. Now the housing condo tower is on hold, dashing city officials' hopes that the project would help to bring parking, residents and more life to the downtown.

Prices of condos have been steady in some areas and fallen elsewhere. The median condo sales price in the Cape Coral-Fort Myers area of Florida fell 26% to $202,300 in the fourth quarter of 2007 from $273,400 a year earlier.

Prices dropped nearly 20% in Tucson, Ariz., and 12% in the Atlanta area during that time, according to National Association of Realtors data. Inside the newly minted Quantum on the Bay in Miami, prices for two-bedroom units have fallen from the high $700,000s to around $500,000.

One option for a developer is to convert the condos to apartments. However, these projects are usually financed with the presumption that sales of individual condos pay off more than rents from a comparably sized apartment building. Also, lenders typically expect developers to pay off condo construction loans with the millions of dollars they receive when closing on the sales. Such a quick payout isn't possible if the developer is only receiving monthly rental payments.

Mr. Terwilliger says Trammell Crow plans its condo developments with an eye towards converting them into rentals if necessary. But its profits are cut when it does that because the company typically spends more for land and amenities when developing condos, he says.

A project called ATLofts at the mammoth Atlantic Station project in downtown Atlanta presold about 80% of its 303 units in a mixed-use building that had condos above retail space. But the project ran into water-infiltration problems. That gave buyers an out.

The developer, Lane Co., ended up turning about half the units into rentals. The developer of the retail space, Atlantic Town Center, bought the remaining 156 units as condos. Today, only 52 of those have sold, according to Haddow & Co., an Atlanta-based real-estate consulting company. An Atlantic Town Center spokesman predicted the remaining condos will sell "considering the prime location."

As more condominium projects get into trouble, investors are looking to pounce. Some 700 people showed up for a distressed-real-estate conference this past week in Miami where the condo glut was the dominant discussion subject.

Valet parking attendants had to wave participants away from the hotel and toward a parking lot at a shopping center, and attendees overwhelmed the conference halls, forcing many to watch the proceedings on screens in adjoining rooms.

-- Peter Grant contributed to this article.

Email your comments to [email protected].
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  #804  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 4:25 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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Originally Posted by gelu1123 View Post
The United States economy remains the strongest in the world!


Where have you been this past decade?!

I think you're referring to actual size of the U.S. economy. According to the statistics, the GDP stands at around $14 Trillion. Yet growth is expected to be less than 1.5% this year......

But in growth %? Tch, please.....I wish that were the case. China is growing at an anual rate of at least 9 or 10% EACH YEAR. Last year I think it was close to 12%!
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Last edited by JDRCRASH; Mar 25, 2008 at 5:40 PM.
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  #805  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 5:30 PM
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JDRCRASH thanks for the article ( I think JamesBond posted this somewhere already) but even though Miami has an oversupply of condos now the market will absorb it eventually. Over half of the sales in Greater Miami are condos & multi family units. The only single family homes being built are in the extreme edges of Dade county in places like Homestead which is 30+ miles southwest of downtown.
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  #806  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2008, 5:42 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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@Bobdreamz-Yeah, its just a matter of how long it will take to absorb the units.

Mulit-Family units? Interesting. I guess more and more people want to have their kids grow up in the city.
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  #807  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 12:09 AM
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Man I know what they're saying but I don't know what housing woes that article is refering too. I work for a Home furnishing company and it's everyday I'm meeting people buying for their new condo's in downtown..especially 50 Biscayne, Quantum, and Plaza
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  #808  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 2:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRCRASH View Post


Where have you been this past decade?!

I think you're referring to actual size of the U.S. economy. According to the statistics, the GDP stands at around $14 Trillion. Yet growth is expected to be less than 1.5% this year......

But in growth %? Tch, please.....I wish that were the case. China is growing at an anual rate of at least 9 or 10% EACH YEAR. Last year I think it was close to 12%!
It is normal that China will grow faster than the United States, the United States remains the world's leading economy for many years.
Things are not going well for the United States, I hope that with the change of president change things.
The business empire of the United States will fall not ever
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  #809  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 4:15 AM
NorthJersey NorthJersey is offline
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Originally Posted by gelu1123 View Post
It is normal that China will grow faster than the United States, the United States remains the world's leading economy for many years.
Things are not going well for the United States, I hope that with the change of president change things.
The business empire of the United States will fall not ever
Hey everyone. I have been a long time reader but this is my first post.
The US economy is in a cyclical downturn which will not last longer than halfway through 2008. Changing political structure has very little impact on growth rates so when the economy comes out of its downturn it will not be because of President Obama/Clinton/McCain. Miami is overdeveloped in the residential market but I believe its commercial market is in good shape. The only way I see the proposed supertalls going up is if they are more commercial than residential. I think the world towers would better serve Miami as commercial buildings. Their look and name just sounds commercial.
I have not been to Miami in years and am realizing that I need to make a trip down.
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  #810  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
Hey everyone. I have been a long time reader but this is my first post.
The US economy is in a cyclical downturn which will not last longer than halfway through 2008. Changing political structure has very little impact on growth rates so when the economy comes out of its downturn it will not be because of President Obama/Clinton/McCain. Miami is overdeveloped in the residential market but I believe its commercial market is in good shape. The only way I see the proposed supertalls going up is if they are more commercial than residential. I think the world towers would better serve Miami as commercial buildings. Their look and name just sounds commercial.
I have not been to Miami in years and am realizing that I need to make a trip down.
A downturn not lasting longer than halfway through 2008 is better than the most optimisitc projections I've been hearing.

I do hope you're right.
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  #811  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 4:54 AM
NewAtlantisMiami NewAtlantisMiami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
Hey everyone. I have been a long time reader but this is my first post.
The US economy is in a cyclical downturn which will not last longer than halfway through 2008. Changing political structure has very little impact on growth rates so when the economy comes out of its downturn it will not be because of President Obama/Clinton/McCain. Miami is overdeveloped in the residential market but I believe its commercial market is in good shape. The only way I see the proposed supertalls going up is if they are more commercial than residential. I think the world towers would better serve Miami as commercial buildings. Their look and name just sounds commercial.
I have not been to Miami in years and am realizing that I need to make a trip down.
Many originally strictly residental projects reconfigured their plans to mixed-use once they experienced a downturn in the residential market because the office market was still strong. I'm a big proponent of large mixed-use projects where skyscrapers become almost indepedent cities within themselves as being the wave of the future for Miami with our limited highway and mass transit system. The downsliding U.S. dollar and the feds cutting interest rates again this month could lead to a new influx of foreign investors in 2008 and a market turnaround just that soon. In my Analysis of the "Boom" on SkyscraperCity. com, I credit our significantly war-torn economy and weak dollar as leading to Miami's boom being as big as it was with property becoming a bargain to foreign investors. In addition to this, Miami has had two consecutive hurricane seasons with Florida nowhere on the radar screen.

The Empire World Towers originally had one of them being strictly residential and at the time would have been the tallest residential structure in the world if it had been built, but developers spent 2 years duking it out with the FAA about height restrictions with MIA in the middle of the city. Finally, they agreed on 1,010 bringing the towers down 190 feet. By that time, a strictly residential supertall had become unfeasible. The developer of the Empire World Towers had to reconfigure it to a mixed-use project to meet the demands of a changing market. He said he will build it in the next 5 years, if the market wants it, and will reconfigure the project before it is built to meet changes in market demand. We already have the 3rd biggest skyline in the country based on what has made it to construction thus far. You won't believe the place when you come down again. The city is totally unrecognizable from just 5 years ago.

Last edited by NewAtlantisMiami; Mar 27, 2008 at 9:31 AM.
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  #812  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 10:30 AM
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We need to build more hotels and more offices, and above all, make a lot of publicity in the city to attract more tourism, especially in Europe.
The city of New York made a publicity campaign in the city in Europe that has worked fairly well, as it is the first tourist destination chosen by the Europeans in 2007. In fact, I myself travelled to the United States and 2 times last year, and I think do it again in May this year.
The construction of new buildings and new tourist attractions (museums, parks, malls) achieved much more tourism to Miami, and tourism gives a lot of money to a city.
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  #813  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 5:34 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
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I hope that with the change of president change things.
The business empire of the United States will fall not ever
As much as I would like to believe that will be the case; quite frankly, that theory is a little naive.
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  #814  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 10:32 PM
NewAtlantisMiami NewAtlantisMiami is offline
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As much as I would like to believe that will be the case; quite frankly, that theory is a little naive.
Yes, I would think so with the current state of affairs.
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  #815  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2008, 10:41 PM
NewAtlantisMiami NewAtlantisMiami is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul305 View Post
I feel bad for the architect that designed 900 Biscayne. The developers completely butchered it by cost-engineering the crown out of the design. I can't even look at those four buildings anymore without cringing at the sight of 900...
It was also chopped down by 50 feet so that we didn't get another 700 footer, which was the biggest disappointment to me about it.
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  #816  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 1:16 AM
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Some photos from yesterday







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  #817  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 5:01 AM
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Nice shots. Where did you take this from?
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  #818  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 5:16 AM
lviz lviz is offline
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Nice shots. Where did you take this from?
The first two were from the top of Axis.
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  #819  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 7:23 PM
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Looks like they have taken the cranes down from the Logik project for financial reasons,this does not bode well for Miami's office market if this is the case.
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  #820  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2008, 8:10 PM
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^ Miami's in a funk.
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