Phoenix Development News (3)

[exit2lef]

More bellyaching about parking as the city tries to find another use for a building it may no longer need:

http://downtowndevil.com/2015/09/17/...ncertain-fate/

[nickw252]

Looks like things are moving forward - "Technically the Muse is under construction."

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...tments-at.html

Lennar Corp. says it's still moving forward with its plans for a 367-unit apartment development on a vacant lot at Central Avenue and McDowell Road in Phoenix.

The property has been empty for years. Nathan Stum, development manager for Lennar’s multifamily division, previously said the Miami-based residential builder hoped to start construction in July.

There hasn’t been much activity at the much-watched property near the Phoenix Art Museum and Heard Museum. Stum said Friday the project is moving forward with some construction action expected later this month.

“Physical utility relocation and site work is scheduled to begin the week of Sept. 28, “ he said in an email.

Lennar is calling the Central Avenue project The Muse. It also sits on the Metro light rail line.

“We recently finalized financing for The Muse (at) Central and McDowell. The general contractor LMI Construction Services, our in house GC, has received their notice to proceed, so technically we are under construction,” Stum said.

Lennar (NYSE: LEN) is traditionally known for home-building but has made some major pushes into the post-recession apartment development space.

The company already developed a luxury complex in Tempe and is building another complex in Tempe and another in Chandler.

Stum said construction on the 399-unit complex dubbed The Motley near Apache Boulevard and Terrace Road in Tempe started last month. Whiting-Turner Contracting is the general contractor for that project.

“The existing Days Inn Motel and Sonoran Ridge Apartments have been demolished and site work is underway,” he said.

Another Lennar 283-unit complex slated for Chandler Avenue and McClintock Road is still scheduled to start construction later this year, he said.

The project may start ahead of schedule. Lennar previously was plotting an early 2016 construction start date.

[dtnphx]

Ultimately I believe they will break ground, but for some reason this site has been dragging. They first mentioned they were going to build there in May of 2014. Seems everywhere else apartment complexes are blowin' and goin' while that corner still stays empty. Argh, it get's me crazy. But if they break ground, I'll be OK.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Ultimately I believe they will break ground, but for some reason this site has been dragging. They first mentioned they were going to build there in May of 2014. Seems everywhere else apartment complexes are blowin' and goin' while that corner still stays empty. Argh, it get's me crazy. But if they break ground, I'll be OK.

I can't seem to find the rendering. Anyone have the link handy? Was it 4 or 6 stories, I can't recall...

[combusean]

Originally Posted by crwhiteinaz

I've wanted to post on Indian School happenings, but wasn't sure if this forum channel was the right place. I live just north of Indian School/28th street and I'm loving all the great stuff going on.

Most (all?) things that are infill are fair game for this forum.

[combusean]

I must say I'm shocked at how much Central Phoenix is developing lately. 16th St between Highland and Colter and the northern ends of downtown will begin to look significantly different and the population effects will be noticeable, especially to retail that could definitely use it. Rather than being highrise condos that didn't get built that had no market, these will be injections of thousands of units all over the city to meet a pent up demand and beget later highrises early on when the neighborhoods begin to prove themselves.

I had also never heard of the 320-unit development on 44th St and Camelback which is wrapping up. It and the 16th St and Highland project seem also unique for being mixed use outside of downtown and demolishing single-family homes, marking a turning point in how Phoenix is growing.

All of this also appears to be flying under the radar, and not generating near the controversy and excitement as the last boom. And altho I'm somewhat lamenting the lack of high rises in a lot of these proposals, I'm happy to see projects that will put warm bodies on the ground as they actually come out of it.

[combusean]

A look at 16th St projects which are adding 1,500 new units on 31 acres across a short strip of Phoenix. At 50 units an acre on average, these apartments are up to twice as dense as previous multifamily projects in the corridor with the complication of new-found mixed use...

@51: SEC 16th and Georgia: Renting now. 183 units on 3.28 acres, includes restaurant
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...48-12_pudn.pdf

Replaces dilapidated single story office building.

Scape Modern Living: NWC 16th st and Highland: Nearing completion: 244 units on 6.18 acres
http://vizzdanews.blogspot.com/2013/...th-street.html

Replaced a row of single-story crummy commercial buildings and an excess of parking.

Arbour Court: SEC 16th and Colter: Submitted July 6, 2015. 234 units on 4.26 acres.
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-38-15n.pdf

Replaces two vacant one- and two- story office buildings.

Crescent Highland: SWC 16th and Highland: Final Submittal June 18, 2015. 350 units on 5 acres, 8,000 square feet retail.

https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-127-14n.pdf

Replaces a once-ramshackle neighborhood, 2 newer townhouses, older apartments, a couple commercial buildings.

Liv Biltmore: SWC 16th St and Colter: 3 acres acquired, 10 to go (the largest 10 acre site in 5 miles). "500+", "several hundred" units of multifamily and senior living units on 13 acres, possible mixed use

http://azbex.com/phx-infill-project-tops-500-units/
http://azbigmedia.com/featured/colli...family-complex
http://www.colliers.com/-/media/file...old-9-1-15.pdf

Replaces the 2-story occupied Willowick Square office building and the 395-unit Sienna Springs complex behind it.


None of these projects are going to have remarkable architecture, mosly a lot of EIFS in articulated swaths between 50 and 70 feet tall.

[combusean]

In a bizarre twist of events, Cornish Pasty Co is on track for a 2015 opening downtown 3 years after the initial announcement.

https://www.facebook.com/Cornish-Pas...2567/timeline/

Funny things happen when you go back 3 years into these posts and follow up...

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

In a bizarre twist of events, Cornish Pasty Co is on track for a 2015 opening downtown 3 years after the initial announcement.

https://www.facebook.com/Cornish-Pas...2567/timeline/

Funny things happen when you go back 3 years into these posts and follow up...

I've watched this project move at a glacial pace. Sometimes there have been one or two workers inside the space. At other times, weeks have gone by without any sign of activity. It's been a bit more steady lately, but the pace is still slow. I'm trying to understand the logic of paying rent on this space for up to three years without operating a restaurant and generating revenue.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by combusean

A look at 16th St projects which are adding 1,500 new units on 31 acres across a short strip of Phoenix. At 50 units an acre on average, these apartments are up to twice as dense as previous multifamily projects in the corridor with the complication of new-found mixed use...

@51: SEC 16th and Georgia: Renting now. 183 units on 3.28 acres, includes restaurant
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Docu...48-12_pudn.pdf

Replaces dilapidated single story office building.

Scape Modern Living: NWC 16th st and Highland: Nearing completion: 244 units on 6.18 acres
http://vizzdanews.blogspot.com/2013/...th-street.html

Replaced a row of single-story crummy commercial buildings and an excess of parking.

Arbour Court: SEC 16th and Colter: Submitted July 6, 2015. 234 units on 4.26 acres.
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-38-15n.pdf

Replaces two vacant one- and two- story office buildings.

Crescent Highland: SWC 16th and Highland: Final Submittal June 18, 2015. 350 units on 5 acres, 8,000 square feet retail.

https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-127-14n.pdf

Replaces a once-ramshackle neighborhood, 2 newer townhouses, older apartments, a couple commercial buildings.

Liv Biltmore: SWC 16th St and Colter: 3 acres acquired, 10 to go (the largest 10 acre site in 5 miles). "500+", "several hundred" units of multifamily and senior living units on 13 acres, possible mixed use

http://azbex.com/phx-infill-project-tops-500-units/
http://azbigmedia.com/featured/colli...family-complex
http://www.colliers.com/-/media/file...old-9-1-15.pdf

Replaces the 2-story occupied Willowick Square office building and the 395-unit Sienna Springs complex behind it.


None of these projects are going to have remarkable architecture, mosly a lot of EIFS in articulated swaths between 50 and 70 feet tall.

And, don't forget the current demo of the giant Biltmore Club apartment complex at 24th St. and Highland. Most buildings down, still one yet to fall. They're planning a massive development with apartments, condos and a hotel. The story broke about 6 months ago.

I too am really gobsmacked at what's going on. The difference in this wave of development is how sure and confident the infill mindset has become without the "pull" of far-flung development. It seems this time urban infill isn't dragged down by it, ya know? And, we're maturing a city folks. Hard to believe but true.

[combusean]

A rundown of some PUD cases covering 1,400 units in addition to 16th St that are very interesting:

3rd and Osborn, NWC 3rd Ave and Osborn, 161 units on 2.48 acres, 60'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-8-15n.pdf

Washington Enclave, SWC 12th st and Washington, 90 condos on 1.1 acres, 8 stories, 100'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-11-15n.pdf

Alta Thomas, NWC 3rd St and Thomas, 224 unit on 4.23 acres, 70'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-9-15n.pdf
(we covered it before but I can't remember if renders were ever posted)

Omninet West, NWC Central and Pierson, 283 units on 2.31 acres with 14,990 square feet of commercial, 70'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-26-15n.pdf

Omninet East, NEC Central and Pierson, 181 units on 1.26 acres with 4,758 square feet of commercial, 70'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-27-15n.pdf

St Ambrose, SWC 12th St and Van Buren, up to 250 units on 2.1 acres, 65'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-28-15n.pdf

Alta Camelback, SEC 7th st and Camelback, 230 units on 3.09 acres, 60'
https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/Z-39-15n.pdf

[combusean]

I guess all this begs the question, is there demand for 3,000+ apartments in Central Phoenix?

I'm very curious to see how 11 Capital Place and 12 Capital Place will be doing in the meantime...

[combusean]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

And, don't forget the current demo of the giant Biltmore Club apartment complex at 24th St. and Highland. Most buildings down, still one yet to fall. They're planning a massive development with apartments, condos and a hotel. The story broke about 6 months ago.

I too am really gobsmacked at what's going on. The difference in this wave of development is how sure and confident the infill mindset has become without the "pull" of far-flung development. It seems this time urban infill isn't dragged down by it, ya know? And, we're maturing a city folks. Hard to believe but true.

Ahh yes. The one where if they didn't get up to 70', they'd turn that whole crummy thing into condos. Now it's one of the densest and most real active sites in Phoenix.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

I guess all this begs the question, is there demand for 3,000+ apartments in Central Phoenix?

I'm very curious to see how 11 Capital Place and 12 Capital Place will be doing in the meantime...

It think the demand is there, anecdotal I know many people who would live downtown if they could afford it or if the places were nicer.

Believe it or not a lot of Baby Boomers have looked at apartment living for retirement as apposed to Sun City

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Obadno

It think the demand is there, anecdotal I know many people who would live downtown if they could afford it or if the places were nicer.

I'm curious, have you talked to these people at all about what they've looked at and what their price range is? There are *slightly* older properties just outside the core that are nice and near things...Station on Central, Camden Copper Square ... $900 - $1000 a month for a one-bedroom, not too much below what new properties will be renting for. (I have no idea what's cheap or expensive anymore in Phoenix considering my rent...)

Believe it or not a lot of Baby Boomers have looked at apartment living for retirement as apposed to Sun City

I think part of the reason for this is that prices are nowhere near "drive till you qualify." Phoenix home prices are way down from their peak, and have been metropolitan-Ohio stable over the last two years according to Case Schiller.

It could be that, given that there's no more "drive till you qualify" that the Phoenix area's geographic footprint is as big as it's going to practically be for the foreseeable future. The houses on the outer reaches just aren't near jobs, whereas apartments in the central city (esp 16th st and Tempe, I dunno about other neighborhoods) are near jobs and near amenities.

Probably a matter of time before some of these new buildings are converted to condos.

[biggus diggus]

My buildings downtown rent for 900/1br 1100/2br and due to the current competitiveness of the downtown apartment market the only guys charging more than that are large scale buildings with gyms, garage parking, 24hr maintenance requests, etc. basically full service buildings.

Roosevelt Square was running a special at $1180 for 2/2 recently. For some reason they are partially dictating the pricing in the area... for now.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

I'm curious, have you talked to these people at all about what they've looked at and what their price range is? There are *slightly* older properties just outside the core that are nice and near things...Station on Central, Camden Copper Square ... $900 - $1000 a month for a one-bedroom, not too much below what new properties will be renting for. (I have no idea what's cheap or expensive anymore in Phoenix considering my rent...)



I think part of the reason for this is that prices are nowhere near "drive till you qualify." Phoenix home prices are way down from their peak, and have been metropolitan-Ohio stable over the last two years according to Case Schiller.

These are post undergrad 23-30 year olds (people I am friendly with) A lot of them can get a nice townhome with a roommate or two in Tempe and Scottsdale for 1200-1800 a month(total).

Why would I pay 1000 on my own for a 1 bedroom in a sketchy neighborhood? (that's most of the feeling) Especially if I might as well buy a house for that price.

A lot of people aren't into going to a neighborhood *before* it gets nice. As more units come on line and the neighborhood downtown continues to gentrify the less adventurous (most people) will begin to move downtown.

Phoenix has hit its geographical size limit for now, most people are only comfortable commuting about 45 minutes to work. So you'll see cities sort of naturally find the 45 minute travel mark from home to employment.

We hit the point about 2005/6 where housing has reached the extreme limit most people are comfortable with. You'll notice instead of 3000 home developments in gilbert or Buckeye we are seeing more 200 home developments in chandler and N. Phoenix

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by combusean

I think part of the reason for this is that prices are nowhere near "drive till you qualify." Phoenix home prices are way down from their peak, and have been metropolitan-Ohio stable over the last two years according to Case Schiller.

It could be that, given that there's no more "drive till you qualify" that the Phoenix area's geographic footprint is as big as it's going to practically be for the foreseeable future. The houses on the outer reaches just aren't near jobs, whereas apartments in the central city (esp 16th st and Tempe, I dunno about other neighborhoods) are near jobs and near amenities.

There is plenty of "drive til you qualify" in the Phoenix area. I don't know about your income bracket, but there are plenty of people who live in the West Valley, FAR East Valley, and Pinal because they cannot qualify for homes closer to the center of the city. There's a reason why the cheapest real estate in the Valley is in Florence, San Tan Valley, Maricopa, and Buckeye.

Also, the footprint of the Phoenix area is changing. Wickenburg Ranch, currently under construction, will add thousands of homes along Highway 93 near the Highway 89 turnoff. ADOT has constructed a roundabout just to accommodate this development. Also, construction is imminent on several master planned communities that will expand the developed portion of Peoria all the way up to the Carefree Highway. Nevermind the Eastmark development in East Mesa where homes are selling like hot cakes or the planned Superstition Vistas development. It's nothing like 2006, but single family home building has absolutely picked back up in Phoenix from 2009-2011 levels.

Originally Posted by Obadno

These are post undergrad 23-30 year olds (people I am friendly with) A lot of them can get a nice townhome with a roommate or two in Tempe and Scottsdale for 1200-1800 a month(total).

Why would I pay 1000 on my own for a 1 bedroom in a sketchy neighborhood? (that's most of the feeling) Especially if I might as well buy a house for that price.

A lot of people aren't into going to a neighborhood *before* it gets nice. As more units come on line and the neighborhood downtown continues to gentrify the less adventurous (most people) will begin to move downtown.

Phoenix has hit its geographical size limit for now, most people are only comfortable commuting about 45 minutes to work. So you'll see cities sort of naturally find the 45 minute travel mark from home to employment.

We hit the point about 2005/6 where housing has reached the extreme limit most people are comfortable with. You'll notice instead of 3000 home developments in gilbert or Buckeye we are seeing more 200 home developments in chandler and N. Phoenix

$1000 will get you a nice place in a non-sketchy neighborhood in Phoenix. I lived in a studio in Alta/Skyline for $950/month. I think people fail to realize that younger people often can't scrape together enough money for a down payment to buy a home. It's not just about the monthly payments. There are plenty of younger people who live alone who probably pay rents around $1000/month but do not have the means to buy a home.

As I mentioned above, Phoenix has not hit its size limit. Drive up Highway 93 to Vegas or the new SR 24 Freeway in East Mesa. The Valley is still marching outward. These are not 200 home developments either.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Freeway

$1000 will get you a nice place in a non-sketchy neighborhood in Phoenix. I lived in a studio in Alta/Skyline for $950/month. I think people fail to realize that younger people often can't scrape together enough money for a down payment to buy a home. It's not just about the monthly payments. There are plenty of younger people who live alone who probably pay rents around $1000/month but do not have the means to buy a home.

As I mentioned above, Phoenix has not hit its size limit. Drive up Highway 93 to Vegas or the new SR 24 Freeway in East Mesa. The Valley is still marching outward. These are not 200 home developments either.

There is always going to be sprawl as long as the population grows.

People in Wickenburg (if they even work) probably work in Prescott, from home or in the far NW valley like Surprise or Sun City. In general people wont travel more than about 45 minutes from home to work.

You cant prevent this some people will always want a house out in the boonies. The only mass developments you'll see is along the 303, that's okay, its already a forgone conclusion and despite it being sprawl the population increase is good for our state. (although many people from the east valley refuse to live in the west valley)

Why would I pay 1000$ a month for an apartment in central phoenix when I can keep paying 650 in my bigger nicer place in a nicer neighborhood while saving for a home I can purchase.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Why would I pay 1000$ a month for an apartment in central phoenix when I can keep paying 650 in my bigger nicer place in a nicer neighborhood while saving for a home I can purchase.

It depends on definition of "nicer".

Personally I don't see a place with granite countertops, a two car garage, and 20 tons of crushed gravel in the suburbs as nice, but I know that lots of people do.

My definition of a nice place is heavily weighted on its location. If the location bores me to death, it doesn't really matter what the inside of the home looks like, and therein lies why a lot of people are willing to pay to live in the city, they have a greater appreciation for location and realize that its a driving factor of "nice".