LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[alki]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

I appreciate what you're saying, but I think you're misreading him. I've yet to see him constructively criticize anything. Its always provocative and antagonistic. Constructive is "Downtown has too much X. What we really need is Y". Antagonistic is "Downtown sucks. You have no taste for liking it." There's a big difference.

You don't have to look back too far through his comment history to see what he's all about:

Sorry but that is not constructive in any way.

I never said Luva was diplomatic or charming. In fact, he seems to enjoy irritating the posters on this forum. However, if one looks beyond the cynicism and sarcasm in his comments, there is substance.

I think these comments are very right on:

dtla is currently active only in certain parts, and at certain times. it is just a neighborhood in la though, and has never been among the more interesting ones at that.

besides the historic architecture, dtla has uninteresting retail and is barely becoming a neighborhood even now - yes there are 55k residents but real organic neighborhoods take decades to build.


visitors don't come to a city and decide that a neighborhood is interesting because of the progress it's made. "interesting" is not a sympathetic moral judgement. Interesting is about the human fabric that makes up a neighborhood, and the physical manifestation of that human fabric. dtla has yet to find a uniquely local identity, and a few national/regional anchors does little to advance that effort. in the absolute sense dtla just got a Target, a Ralph's, and has a few scenesy restaurants. It's got old town pasadena in its crosshairs. world class indeed.

My biggest complaint with Luva is he comes in and does a drone hit, and then leaves for a few months. He's unwilling to really engage and I suspect he's intellectually lazy. Easier to stir up the pot; then leave.

[alki]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

The entire city of Los Angeles has a pretty lousy office vacancy rate.

http://www.transwestern.net/Market-Resea...3%20Los%20Angeles%20Office%20Outlook.pdf

Downtown LA: 18.2%
Mid Wilshire: 21.5%
West LA: 16.4%
San Fernando Valley: 17.2%
Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena: 19.9%
South Bay: 22.6%

LA County average: 18.7%

Downtown LA's office vacancy rate is actually better than the average for the region at large.

Okay........I thought I read somewhere recently that W. LA's vacancy was down to 13% while DTLA's vacancy had grown. I thought it was for the 4th quarter of 2012 and I think it was posted by Citywatch.........or I saw it in LA Curbed.

In any case, DTLA isn't quite as bad as I thought but its still worse than most of the other regional markets. Let me tell you why.

First, in terms of offices, nothing new of consequence has been built in DTLA for 20 years. In fact, vacant office space has been converted to apts........and still the rate hovers around 20%.

Secondly, new space has been coming on line in the other markets during the past ten years, In addition, there have been conversions of industrial space to offices in those markets.. And even with that new space, vacany rates have been consistently lower for those markets when compared to DTLA.

Thirdly, I don't believe anyone is truly 'selling' DTLA. Why? Because I believe that after all these years of mass transit construction and DT plans, there is not a true commitment for DT to be the center of metro LA.........to be the metro's urban core. I think a lot of LA's movers and shakers are standing with their hands in their pockets 'waiting to see if the trends in DT are real'.

And that worries me. I would love to see the lease terms of an Acne. Exactly how committed are they to a DT location........for how many years did they sign. In the past, I have seen LA turn on a dime and go in a different direction.

In other words, I don't think DT is over the hump yet.

[alki]

Originally Posted by brudy

Yes, but it was the law that allowed the conversions to take place in 1999 that really kicked downtown off. If nobody can live here, what's the point? And financial districts are pretty much the same everywhere - relatively boring.

Financial districts may be boring but they provide jobs and jobs provide money to eat in all those trendy restaurants.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

Downtown LA will never be the financial center as San Francisco, but we are the Entertainment Capital of the World and centralizing some production offices in the downtown core (while keeping the studious in other districts or suburbs) would be a great perception for downtown.

I would love to see that kind of committment. Microsoft is in Redmond but its taken up a big chunk of offices in DT Bellevue and opened up a major educational center in DT Seattle, employing tons of people. Amazon moved its corp headquarters from a neigborhood/quasi surburban location to DT Seattle. Its aborbed over 2 million sq ft of space.

I would love to see Universal or Sony or Disney move some of their offices into DTLA.

[alki]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

One thing to consider is that resources are more scarce for millenials than gen x'ers or boomers. Millenials are also more likely to embrace urban living and public transit. Millenials are also more likely to join a creative workforce. In so many ways DT should really look at converting its corporate fortress image.

In addition to neutralizing the fortress image, I'd like to see DTLA move definitively away from catering to cars. Leave paired streets like Pico and Olympic to move traffic east and west thru DT and two paired streets east of Main Street to move traffic north and south thru DT. Then go about narrowing the rest of DT's streets either my bringing out curbs or allowing parking all day long or putting in bike paths.........and encouraging restaurants to help take up some of the expanded sidewalks by putting in outdoor cafes. I know its already happening to some degree.........but I think there needs to be bigger push and commitment by the city.

In DTs I like to walk I find there is an intimacy created when the streets are narrow or at least not as wide as those in DTLA.........and where activities spill out onto the sidewalks. FWIW.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by LAofAnaheim

By the way, did anybody notice that pwc (the #1 largest accounting firm) put up their logo on the crystal square (i.e. the green lighted building at night...not Eastern Columbia) over the last week? Looks nice to see more companies with logos on top of buildings.

Took this pic yesterday of PWC logo on the former Sanwa Bank tower.

I agree that it looks good to have more corporate logos on our towers.

[LAofAnaheim]

Originally Posted by alki

First, in terms of offices, nothing new of consequence has been built in DTLA for 20 years. In fact, vacant office space has been converted to apts........and still the rate hovers around 20%.

HerbaLife and ESPN were the only corporate office space that was new build in last 20 years (not referencing Gensler which took over existing available office space). It's nice to see ESPN proudly broadcast from downtown LA when Sportscenter is on at night.

[ThomJames]

Originally Posted by LiveandDieinLA

hello people. I have followed the forum for some years now but just recently joined.
I was wondering about Onni's 888 S. Olive street tower. I am aware that it is to be a 32 stories, but when passing by the other day, the crane seems to be 20 stories or so high. Does anyone know the reason for this?

If you look at the center of the crane, there is a section that overlaps. When they get further along in construction they will actually increase the height of the crane. I was told that they start at a minimal height to make it easier for the crane operator to see the ground. I actually saw the crane extended when they were building the Ritz Carlton at LA Live. It's pretty interesting to watch. My loft directly faces that project so I will try to post a picture when that is happening.

[StethJeff]

Between ESPN and LA Center Studios it seems like DTLA is beginning to embrace a future role in the creative industries. With all that vacant office space, growing rail, increasing population and amenities, clean tech corridor, etc. doesn't it seem like only a matter of time before we do start seeing some of these entertainment/tech industries moving into the hood?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

Downtown Update:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/the-d...91d651e-c3d5-11e2-8963-001a4bcf887a.html

I'm glad you posted that link cuz it made me go back & reread through their update more carefully. I totally overlooked the update on the avant proj on fig, which confirms what a forumer described a few days ago.

these are the projs that stood out to me, since they have specific time lines, or give an update to questions that I & others have long had about certain new devlpt or areas in dt. All the other projs listed at that link are ambiguous or unsure right now. the federal courthouse at 1st & broadway also stood out to me, first cuz it will rise on one of the biggest gaps in dt, & second, mainly cuz it even though it's firmly funded & will fill a specific need, it still doesn't have a clear groundbreaking date.

OLYMPIC AND BROADWAY APARTMENTS: A January 2014 groundbreaking is planned for developer Geoff Palmer’s two-building, ground-up apartment project at Broadway and Olympic Boulevard

AVANT: Exterior construction is complete up to the sixth floor along Flower Street and to the fourth floor along Figueroa for the first phase of the $154 million Avant in South Park, said Mark Thomton, a project spokesman.... Construction on phase two, a third building at 1420 S. Figueroa St. with 193 units, began in late April, with site clearing and prep work currently underway.

SARES-REGIS LITTLE TOKYO: A June groundbreaking is expected for a 240-unit apartment complex at Second and San Pedro streets in Little Tokyo, said Mike Winter, senior vice president of development for developer Sares-Regis Group. The company is still going through the city’s plan check process.

BLOSSOM PLAZA: A groundbreaking ceremony for the long-delayed $95 million Blossom Plaza in Chinatown is slated to take place May 20, according to Monica Valencia, a spokeswoman for City Councilman Ed Reyes, whose First District covers Chinatown. Actual construction will begin in August, with completion coming by the end of 2005, according to developer Forest City. The project, at 900 N. Broadway, will replace the shuttered Little Joe’s restaurant...

FEDERAL COURTHOUSE: A groundbreaking date has not yet been set, though officials hope to begin construction this year on a $400 million federal courthouse, according to project representatives.

THE BROAD: The structural elements of the $130 million museum known as The Broad are almost complete and mechanical and electrical systems are now being installed, said Karen Denne, a spokeswoman for The Broad Foundation..... The installation of an elaborate, honeycomb-like veil that will shroud the building is slated to start in July.

EMBASSY AUDITORIUM: Plans to turn the vacant Embassy Hotel and Trinity Auditorium in South Park into a 183-room hotel are currently on hold, said Elizabeth Peterson, a representative of building owner the Chetrit Group.

^ So the the fed courthouse proj & embassy bldgs...... I also wonder why the blossom plaza proj just had a groundbreaking ceremony this wk, but won't be under actual devlpt til over 2 months from now.

Originally Posted by alki

My suggestion......its time to stop getting so defensive whenever someone criticizes DTLA. And its too easy to call someone a troll and change the subject. Constructive criticism can lead to positive change.

I agree that it's not realistic for ppl to become defensive about comments that reflect plain realities, simple truths. however, the forumer in question is the very essence of a troll...or someone who appears to be unbalanced. why I've never seen him get admined is puzzling to me. I want to joke that he must have the inside goods on ssp's administrators.

^ exactly!

alki, since you've been visiting this thread for quite awhile, you of all ppl should know better about the forumer in question. districtdirt shouldn't have to provide you with a refresher course. As for the other forumer who patted the "troll" on the back, allow me to snicker & label him "sybil".

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

I was underwhelmed because this thread set my expectations too high....it happens simply because people obviously only take and post pictures of major changes, and not everything else around it.

that's why I created an aerial map of dt several wks ago....I too can lose sight of how much more work needs to be done. I think it's made worse not so much cuz ppl overlook the still sad aspects of the hood, but cuz they'll fuss over what to me are minor details, such as a new proj being too short, or having too much parking, or a facade that's not to their liking, or a lack of retail on the first floor. So that further lulls me into believing that dtla must be in better condition than it really is.

That's really true when someone implies that some new proj, cuz it's not perfect in their eyes, means an opportunity has been lost forever & makes it sound like dt will never recover. That ignores just how many other areas in dt still need to be filled in & fixed up....where a missed opportunity today can be made up for in the future.

Originally Posted by HunterK

State Theater just posted a notice to the public about converting to a big nightclub/bar(s) with DJ's and such. This doesn't make much sense to me since its owned by Delijani who hasn't shown any (actual) interest in turning his theaters around.

It's interesting you say that since the newest edition of the downtown news has an article about delijani's plans to finally do something about his theaters. I think it's unfair to totally discount ppl like him cuz you have to admit they're stuck with all the aspects of broadway. I mean when most visitors to broadway for yrs & yrs & yrs & yrs have been those who like ratty swapmeets, & very few ppl who are turned off that ever want to drop by that same street, how can a finicky owner be expected to go against the grain?

There's also a companion story about efforts to finally clean up broadway. the is that the article also says that owners of rundown bldgs on the street still can get more $$$ than they deserve from swapmeets & that such an arrangement can go on forever. That's cuz to upgrade their bldgs & make them attractive will cost more money without a bigger return on their investment.


jamesinclair's reaction to dt, & that of his father, make me want to post these vids. The first one is good cuz it shows images of dt from over 30 yrs ago. It's a reminder of just how really dead & empty the hood used to be. If ppl complain about bunker hill in 2013, they need to be reminded that it originally really fit the motto of "no there there". And the vid I posted earlier this wk showed dt back in the 1940s, when it was a rather poor, rundown type of place. It sure was no shining city on the hill.


• Video Link

^ the freeze framed image from that vid shows the main city of India. When even mumbai, or the former bombay, looks surprisingly nice...in a way better than the area shown in brighamyen's pic...of what's several blocks to the west of the pwc bldg....even with recent improvements.....that's another reminder of how unacceptable things were a long time ago & through the yrs.

this vid is a good way to see dtla....sort of a refresher course....from the vantage point of most ppl who are casual visitors. The videomaker goes past both the good & bad sections of the hood, so it reminds me of why reactions to dt from various ppl will be both good or bad, or both....


• Video Link

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

Between ESPN and LA Center Studios it seems like DTLA is beginning to embrace a future role in the creative industries. With all that vacant office space, growing rail, increasing population and amenities, clean tech corridor, etc. doesn't it seem like only a matter of time before we do start seeing some of these entertainment/tech industries moving into the hood?

I have to agree with this post. We have a generation that embraces public transit, creativity, amenities, the environment, technology, etc. I think a lot of the steps DT LA is taking now will prove to be appealing to Millennials who will ultimately move up in influence as the boomers and x'ers start to kick the bucket. LOL, and that wasn't meant to offend any of our older (I won't say her name) forumers.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by alki

Financial districts may be boring but they provide jobs and jobs provide money to eat in all those trendy restaurants.

My point was that after 5:00pm they tend to get very quiet. That's what I meant by boring. Obviously they provide jobs and money and bring people into the area.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by alki

Financial districts may be boring but they provide jobs and jobs provide money to eat in all those trendy restaurants.

Luckily, our financial district is relatively small and doesn't do too bad of a job of having after-hours activity compared with other districts downtown. Chaya/Drago, Elevate/Takami, Library Bar, Casey's (even though this place sucks), 7th St, LA Live sort of on the outskirts, etc. Plus I'm sure that the Korean Air tower - ESPECIALLY with its observation deck - will add a lot more activity. That probably won't be the end of it either if DTLA continues to grow.

[alki]

Originally Posted by brudy

My point was that after 5:00pm they tend to get very quiet. That's what I meant by boring. Obviously they provide jobs and money and bring people into the area.

First, when I was talking about creating jobs, I wasn't referring to the financial industry. That industry suffered a near mortal wound during the recession and still is struggling to recover. In fact, I was thinking more like what someone else mentioned.......the creative industries. Those are where jobs are plentiful and office space demand is high.

Secondly, I would really like to see the damn studios step up. When it comes to city building in LA, they are MIA. Its like a traditional town and gown relationship between the city and the studios where the studios behave as if they are above the rest of the city. Would it kill them to take a stake in DTLA........maybe establish a division or two there?

Thirdly, it really would be nice if people in the private sector made a more concerted effort to sell DTLA to the rest of the city and the country. Instead, the focus seems to be Hollywood.........which is just another neighborhood in LA. In cities like SF or Portland or Chicago or MPLS, prominent people are proud of their city and their focus and energy is on the heart of the city.........the urban core......DT. And their DTs reflect that pride and focus.

Few 'captains' are standing up for DT. Yeah, Eli Broad does his schtick and raises a lot of money for DT but his concept of city building is building monuments like the Broad museum or Disney Hall. Monuments are iconic but I don't think they create dynamic, urbane cities.

And even as I say that, I still contend the Getty Center should have been built DT.......even though most likely it would have ended up being built as another monument. LA has a hard time understanding that important bldgs like Disney Hall or the Broad Museum don't have to stand alone but can be integrated into the city so they contribute to the urban fabric and help create neighborhoods.

I know I am sounding negative but seriously, I am the most positive I have been on DTLA in years. I just would like to see a greater commitment by the people who can make a difference. Acne can be gone tomorrow.....as quickly as its moving into DTLA, it can move out. However, the studios have strong roots in LA. They aren't going anywhere. I would like to see them commit to DT.

[alki]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

Luckily, our financial district is relatively small and doesn't do too bad of a job of having after-hours activity compared with other districts downtown. Chaya/Drago, Elevate/Takami, Library Bar, Casey's (even though this place sucks), 7th St, LA Live sort of on the outskirts, etc. Plus I'm sure that the Korean Air tower - ESPECIALLY with its observation deck - will add a lot more activity. That probably won't be the end of it either if DTLA continues to grow.

Definitely. The most successful DTs are good at 'capturing' DT employees and getting them to spend their money DT after work hours are over. Fifteen years ago, DTLA wasn't very good at keeping workers DT after their offices closed but it seems to be doing a better job now. That will help to attract new office users DT.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

alki, since you've been visiting this thread for quite awhile, you of all ppl should know better about the forumer in question. districtdirt shouldn't have to provide you with a refresher course. As for the other forumer who patted the "troll" on the back, allow me to snicker & label him "sybil".

The irony is that you and Luva have similar POVs. Both of you are fairly critical about where DT is these days. And you catch a lot of flack for your criticism. I don't know whether Luva is abrasive by intent or because its his nature..........I guess if its the former, he's a troll. And if that's true, then the best way to deal with a troll is not to 'feed' him. That means not getting defensive.

[IconRPCV]

Originally Posted by alki

Not surprised at your reaction. For someone seeing DTLA for the first time, its got to be disappointing.......but for the people who've been watching for the past 10-15 years, most of the changes have been to the positive and the place looks a lot better. Its good to remember that for many decades, DTLA was tortured into its 21st century existence. Its going to take a while to undo all the bad planning and design.



Its building........LA is crazy that way...........streets will start gentrifying but there will be no people, then suddenly one day throngs appear out of no where. I suspect DTLA is in the building critical mass phase.



You have a great eye for detail......one can see that from your photos. DTLA needs more people like you.




Fica aka the lollipop tree. A better tree........the Jacaranda:



From Brazil......blooms mostly in May/June and then again in Fall. Forms attractive canopy over the street........and when it flowers, it looks spectacular.

Beautiful tree to be sure, they are all over downtown SD. They tend to be not so pretty in our drier climate. Any cold spell below there comfort zone and they get huge dead portions, they become kinda scraggly half dead purple monsters.

[StethJeff]

^^ I wouldn't go so far to call the Walt Disney Concert Hall a monument. It certainly adds value to the community and does in fact make that block of Grand more dynamic. For starters, the store and Patina are on ground level and easily accessible from the street. Then there's the fact that with the addition of Grand Park, the entire Music Center has a ton of foot traffic at all hours of the day. Between the nicely dressed octogenarians going to a concert and hipsters walking their dogs in the vicinity, there's a diverse crowd walking about on Grand now. Finally, there are multiple busloads of tourists that get dropped off at the Music Center every day who spend time photographing the concert hall, fountains, and DTLA skyline from Hope & Grand. Honestly, the only reason why there are tourists there is because of the concert hall. Otherwise, I can't think of a single reason why an international tourist would want to spend some time and some £€¥ in DTLA.

The Broad will be in the same boat. It'll similarly benefit from the nearby park and Music Center and the architecture itself will (assuming it looks anything like those awesome designs) be a draw for tourists. In addition, the Broad will be that last step needed in order to finally connect the Music Center to the rest of Bunker Hill. With the park and enough restaurants/bars, I think this corridor can have a lot of potential.

[Mojeda101]

Heading on over to Downtown this afternoon for a meeting. I'll see if I can snap a few shots for you guys.

[alki]

Originally Posted by IconRPCV

Beautiful tree to be sure, they are all over downtown SD. They tend to be not so pretty in our drier climate. Any cold spell below there comfort zone and they get huge dead portions, they become kinda scraggly half dead purple monsters.

I think there maybe something else going on besides weather........Jacarandas can tolerate temps as low as 20 degrees....scroll down to habitat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacaranda_mimosifolia

Never saw the problem in LA when I lived there.