The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by thefishingnut

If it's anything more than an educated guess, I'd be amazed.

You are correct, it is just an educated guess. It probably has more to do with the number of people filing for EI, etc.. but it is still just a mere guess.

[Peter_johnns]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

I think what he was trying to say is that Moncton has done incredibly well to keep up with Saint John over the years despite the fact that they don't have a superpower employer like Irving.

That is not what I meant. Irving is what is wrong with Saint John. I mean essentially moncton is an economic band-aid for NB while SJ goes through the transition that had begun over the past half century. Therefore moncton gets what moncton wants while NB has neglected SJ. Kind of like sitting your star player while he heals from an injury.

[cdnguys]

When the CN shops in Moncton closed they pulled up their bootstraps and diversified their economy. Moncton excels at light manufacturing while SJ is heavy industry which is susceptible to boom / bust cycles.
I think Moncton should be congratulated - we can probably learn a lesson from them.

[WharfRat]

Originally Posted by Peter_johnns

That is not what I meant. Irving is what is wrong with Saint John. I mean essentially moncton is an economic band-aid for NB while SJ goes through the transition that had begun over the past half century. Therefore moncton gets what moncton wants while NB has neglected SJ. Kind of like sitting your star player while he heals from an injury.

What has Moncton received that Saint John has not? I haven't really been following Moncton's progress since they went to the sub forms, if it's not on CBC.ca, i don't know about it.

What I think..and by no means am I an expert or have any facts to back this up...Moncton's success is not based on what the province has done for them, it's their ability to sell the city, promote the city and work its advantages. It's not just the politicians but also the citizens that help build a successful community. I think SJ is on the right track and will soon see benefits....the city is changing..it's evolving. A city with a heart of a beast and soul of a beauty!!

Time to be positive kids...this Moncton bashing is getting old...any success story in NB should be welcomed news!!!!



Brought to you by my two cents.

[JHikka]

Moncton first and foremost diversified their economy, which is something that Saint John is currently in the midst of doing. Moncton's geographic location is more suited for passenger and retail traffic, whereas Saint John's is more prone to economic traffic. That's it.

[MonctonRad]

Thanks for the defense guys. I agree, we need to get away from the internecine warfare on the forums.

You are quite right, we could have rolled over and played dead in Moncton after the CN Shops closed, the Eaton's catalogue warehouse left and CFB Moncton got shuttered, but the city stepped back, looked at the strengths of the community and built a diversified economy. The city then promoted the dickens out of the place and it has payed off.....

I am impressed by your new mayor in Saint John. I think he "gets it". With him at the helm, I think things will improve down your way, especially with the pension crisis behind you.

[Peter_johnns]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

When the CN shops in Moncton closed they pulled up their bootstraps and diversified their economy. Moncton excels at light manufacturing while SJ is heavy industry which is susceptible to boom / bust cycles.
I think Moncton should be congratulated - we can probably learn a lesson from them.

And what lesson is that? Sprawl and strip malls? Moncton has spawned out of the worst historical time for a city in the era of malls and suburbs. Saint John spawned from a time where cities were built for people— the European model. Saint John should not have to compete with Moncton. We all know Saint John should be much larger than it is, from the days where we were in the top five largest centres in British North America to even the mid 1970's where SJ was projected to have 300,000 plus citizens by 2000. Saint John fends for itself. New Brunswick has rarely done us any favours even though we are what keeps this province running in many ways.

Anyway done with that. Hoping SJ moves away from relying on heavy industry to avoid boom and bust...the bust is quite depressing

[SaintJohner]

Honestly, the only thing I think the government sent monctons way was te casino, I don't think I've seen any "government bailouts" to help moncton. I travel a lot between theses two cities and yes Moncton is sprawled out, but amidst all that sprawl there is pride in there city, there is commitment, there is hope and most of all the people and city council doesn't give up. They aren't a band-aid they just take advantage when they can.

We here in Saint John will see changes, but this attitude against growth in other cities needs to stop, the government has done nothing for any of us... We just experienced the biggest drop in population in the province in awhile and according to stats a large group came from once again the north. We need to work together Fredericton , Moncton and Saint John to attract people and jobs.

[CdnEh]

I think the "anti-growth" attitude people have against other cities is because Saint John is about to lose its title as New Brunswick's largest city/3rd largest in Atlantic Canada.

Saint John... Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

[Southpaw78]

Saw the news yesterday about Saint John's unemployment rate going up again to 9.9%. Wondering if anyone had thoughts as to whether this might have been due to a couple of the major project wrapping up in the latter part of this year (i.e. Point Lepreau and the Gateway project) or whether this is a sign of things to come?

[SignalHillHiker]

From the outside looking in, I think New Brunswick has a lot going for it.

Moncton does have a lot of sprawl and Main Street really is the only part of the city that feels truly urban - but it is a growing city that's doing very well by Atlantic Canadian standards. And it has an excellent location to serve as a service centre.

Saint John can be a little gritty, rundown and depressing - especially given just how impressive and beautiful the remnants of its better days are. It's a bit like Winnipeg in that regard. You can't help but think, "Aww, that's too bad..." - but it has a gorgeous, urban core and a fantastic harbour and a really cool setting.

And Fredericton, although I never lived there, was easily my favourite city in New Brunswick. It had a blue river, instead of brown, and it felt like... Charlottetown: a slice of perfection. A small one, to be sure, but of perfection.

Combined, you have a very small province with three true cities and lots of potential to fill in. Our population is only going to grow. Whether it's 50 years, or 100, our cities are eventually going to be the size of the Halifaxes of the world today. And, when that time comes, New Brunswick is going to be truly awesome. It's going to be Atlantic Canada's version of southern Ontario - just city after city - whereas Nova Scotia and, especially, Newfoundland will largely be one-city provinces. New Brunswick is going to look and feel like the end of our densely-populated corridor through southern Ontario and Quebec, rather than the beginning of our less-populated Atlantic Canada of today.

That's what I think, anyway.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by SaintJohner

Honestly, the only thing I think the government sent monctons way was te casino, I don't think I've seen any "government bailouts" to help moncton. I travel a lot between theses two cities and yes Moncton is sprawled out, but amidst all that sprawl there is pride in there city, there is commitment, there is hope and most of all the people and city council doesn't give up. They aren't a band-aid they just take advantage when they can.

We here in Saint John will see changes, but this attitude against growth in other cities needs to stop, the government has done nothing for any of us... We just experienced the biggest drop in population in the province in awhile and according to stats a large group came from once again the north. We need to work together Fredericton , Moncton and Saint John to attract people and jobs.

Ok. I want to burst this bubble right now.

Maritime cities are beautiful, full of pride, have incredible potential -- but let's be completely real here: if the government actually did nothing for any of us, and didn't subsidise every Maritime city, our economies would free-fall, and unemployment would rampantly grow.

In short: the government does an incredible amount for all of us. It is our regional shortcomings that are harming us. We are anti-amalgamation. We are anti-density. We are anti-diversity (especially in terms of language).

The Maritimes has major issues with prioritising. In New Brunswick in particular, corporate-policital corruption is a major hurdle. We are refusing to develop sustainably, which is just going to ensure our future economic woes.

A major factor in job creation is via government investment. Moncton, for instance, is aiming to create jobs downtown with municipal, provincial, and federal funds being directed toward the construction of an events centre. But how is this to happen when our public funds are wasted on things such as school relocations?

How are our three Maritime provincial governments suppose to adequately invest in needed enterprises when they are overwhelmed with infrastructure debt, debt from healthcare costs and other public services...?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

I think the "anti-growth" attitude people have against other cities is because Saint John is about to lose its title as New Brunswick's largest city/3rd largest in Atlantic Canada.

Saint John... Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

I haven't seen any anti-growth attitudes in this forum yet. This is a skyscraper forum. Virtually everyone here wants vertical growth.

The differences between the three 'big' cities in NB (which are only considered big by the standards of this province) aren't radical.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Southpaw78

Saw the news yesterday about Saint John's unemployment rate going up again to 9.9%. Wondering if anyone had thoughts as to whether this might have been due to a couple of the major project wrapping up in the latter part of this year (i.e. Point Lepreau and the Gateway project) or whether this is a sign of things to come?

The world is urbanising. Canada certainly is. Even Halifax painfully loses out to larger urban centres.

So to answer your question: I believe this is a prelude of what's coming.

The next NB provincial election should be very interesting.

[Peter_johnns]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

I think the "anti-growth" attitude people have against other cities is because Saint John is about to lose its title as New Brunswick's largest city/3rd largest in Atlantic Canada.

Saint John... Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.

Saint John is growing. And that boom bust cycle may bring a boom in the near future.

[Peter_johnns]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Ok. I want to burst this bubble right now.

Maritime cities are beautiful, full of pride, have incredible potential -- but let's be completely real here: if the government actually did nothing for any of us, and didn't subsidise every Maritime city, our economies would free-fall, and unemployment would rampantly grow.

In short: the government does an incredible amount for all of us. It is our regional shortcomings that are harming us. We are anti-amalgamation. We are anti-density. We are anti-diversity (especially in terms of language).

The Maritimes has major issues with prioritising. In New Brunswick in particular, corporate-policital corruption is a major hurdle. We are refusing to develop sustainably, which is just going to ensure our future economic woes.

A major factor in job creation is via government investment. Moncton, for instance, is aiming to create jobs downtown with municipal, provincial, and federal funds being directed toward the construction of an events centre. But how is this to happen when our public funds are wasted on things such as school relocations?

How are our three Maritime provincial governments suppose to adequately invest in needed enterprises when they are overwhelmed with infrastructure debt, debt from healthcare costs and other public services...?

Maritime cities meaning "on the ocean" so yeah I agree, Halifax, Saint John and St. John's are actually quite beautiful.
cities like moncton are only considered maritime cities by association. lol

[Peter_johnns]

Soon this will come into fruition (North of Union)

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Peter_johnns

Soon this will come into fruition (North of Union)

Except the new police station occupies the spot of that condo tower

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

I haven't seen any anti-growth attitudes in this forum yet. This is a skyscraper forum. Virtually everyone here wants vertical growth.

The differences between the three 'big' cities in NB (which are only considered big by the standards of this province) aren't radical.

It's frustrating to see Moncton not grow vertically with the tremendous growth.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

It's frustrating to see Moncton not grow vertically with the tremendous growth.

Have to grow out before you grow up. Growing out has to reach a point where it is no longer beneficial to live far away given rates and fees and such. At which point, then you start having upward growth in the centre. For Moncton, their outward bounds might be Harrisville or Riverview or they might be Salisbury and Shediac. We'll have to wait and see.

For Saint John, currently those bounds are GB/W, Quispamsis, Hampton, and St. Martins.

Originally Posted by Southpaw78

Saw the news yesterday about Saint John's unemployment rate going up again to 9.9%. Wondering if anyone had thoughts as to whether this might have been due to a couple of the major project wrapping up in the latter part of this year (i.e. Point Lepreau and the Gateway project) or whether this is a sign of things to come?

Is that rate for the City of Saint John (CMA) or for the region of Saint John (Sussex-St. Stephen)?