LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Met up with a friend for lunch at the 7th+Fig Mendocino Farms. The whole complex was fairly packed.

Corporate lunch hour..

7th & Fig is a sad center still. This will all (probably) change over the next year when some real retail enters (H&M, Victoria Secret, etc) and brings in a non-corporate, evening crowd.

If it was up to me I'd convince anyone thinking of going in there to enter spaces along Spring & Broadway instead. It would be a much bigger boost to the neighborhood to be in a beautiful historic building with large streetfront windows as opposed to a literal hole in the ground.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by HunterK

If it was up to me I'd convince anyone thinking of going in there to enter spaces along Spring & Broadway instead. It would be a much bigger boost to the neighborhood to be in a beautiful historic building with large streetfront windows as opposed to a literal hole in the ground.

Truth. I've always thought that DT was a bad place for a mall. Luckily, it seems that most major retailers are setting up shop on Broadway, or 7th, rather then that mall.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Corporate lunch hour..

7th & Fig is a sad center still. This will all (probably) change over the next year when some real retail enters (H&M, Victoria Secret, etc) and brings in a non-corporate, evening crowd.

If it was up to me I'd convince anyone thinking of going in there to enter spaces along Spring & Broadway instead. It would be a much bigger boost to the neighborhood to be in a beautiful historic building with large streetfront windows as opposed to a literal hole in the ground.

Its drawing the corporate lunch hour crowd for sure, but I'd hardly call that the majority. The Target and the Golds are a huge draw for residents of DTLA and adjacent neighborhoods. I mean I'm 4 miles away in K-town, and that's my closest Target, at least until they build the East Hollywood one.

And that Gold's Gym in particular is jammed at all hours. I don't know if its USC students or what, but you can walk by at 9pm and its still nuts to butts in there.

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by brudy

in 13 years the population has gone up over 500% (or whatever (2500 in 1999 to 55k today equals).

2200%

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by brudy

So according to the interwebs, the Art Deco District began its restoration in the late 1970s. So they're really aren't comparable. In 20 years, dtla will be at least at the level of Art Deco area and feel more like a city.

And nobody is saying DTLA is fully realized at this moment. But the history of cities is that neighborhoods rise and fall, and then rise again. Right now, DTLA is a fairly hot neighborhood of LA, as evidenced by the 98% leased rate for apartments, the constant stream of new restaurants, the amount of development occurring here. It's a cultural center of the city with several museums, the Music Center, etc. People are clambering to live here as it facilitates a lifestyle that's difficult to have elsewhere in LA. Show me another neighborhood in LA that in 13 years the population has gone up over 500% (or whatever (2500 in 1999 to 55k today equals).

People just need to have realistic expectations about the current state of dtla. Did none of you ever go to Brooklyn in the 90s? It was a similar mess of unconnectedness and pockets of cool places surrounded by crap. It's still like that in some ways despite Williamsburg having peaked on the coolness scale. The development of dtla is happening at a rapid pace, but people need to have grounded ideas about what it's like to walk around here. Comparing South Beach to DTLA is like doing East and West Berlin right after the wall came down. Give it some time.

So, even if you don't agree with the comparison you're basically saying you agree?

[brudy]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

So, even if you don't agree with the comparison you're basically saying you agree?

I'm saying that it isn't a fair comparison. They are at two different places along the rehab spectrum. IMO, a fairer comparison would be Williamsburg in the 90s or SOHO in the 80s. Urban neighborhood with good bones that is all crapped up but on the upswing. And that people need to have realistic expectations of the current state of downtown. That's all.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

talk about heresay.... jesus, dont believe everything you hear.

From my multiple daily observations of CL, the crowds have gotten larger and larger and its pretty busy now for lunch and dinner.

lasportsfan, I need to point out that any major business in dt that isn't attracting crowds is not necessarily due to a lack of ppl in the hood....since Bottega louie & other older restaurants have proven there's big $$ to be made. Based on several reviews I've come across of coco laurent....which should give its owner sleepless nights....there appears to be some big complaints about the restaurant's staff & a feeling the food doesn't justify the pricing.

nonetheless, at this stage in dt's evolution, it still may seem like a saturation point has been reached if such MAJOR restaurants....places where the owner has invested lots of money....don't survive very long. I still recall reading various reviews at yelp from ppl who'd comment on how quiet the towne restaurant in the watermark tower was, but its closing still took me by surprise & was disappointing.

Some ppl have said that restaurants & stores close up all the time in any number of hoods throughout LA. that is certainly true. But the impact of that may be less exasperating cuz those other hoods have a longer history of supporting a larger number of nice businesses, so there's less riding on a few newer shops that have recently opened. Or those hoods have plenty of other nice stores & restaurants to make up for the loss of a few competitors.

dtla also has so many spaces that need to be leased or filled in with nice businesses, that the loss of a decent shop or restaurant....even if its closing is the fault of poor management....still will not sit well with me.

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

If my memory is correct, the pictures of Figaro and Coco (and the walk between) were taken between 12 and 2pm on Thursday. The picture of the Target center would have been around 5pm on Wednesday.

That's disconcerting, since those aren't exactly off hours, & Thursday, unless it was an uncommon weekday holiday, isn't exactly an off day. I was hoping you took those photos at a much later hour of the afternoon, when restaurants in any city in the world also won't be buzzing. but there are interesting contradictions....

Originally Posted by brudy

The irony of that shot is that I had brunch at Coco on Sunday. The place was pretty full and we sat on the patio and watched a fair amount of people go by.

and yet the same restaurant that in one photo seems very, very quiet, even when more ppl, esp office workers, are in dt, is the same place that you noticed far more ppl were dining in on a weekend, on a sunday! I just hope that CL...but even more so figaro on broadway....can weather this stage in dt's evolution.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by RuFFy

they might find he's 100% spot on.

oh, really? I'll make sure to remember that the next time you have the nerve to snipe at the comments made here by others.

btw, someone alluded to the issue of mental health. I'll never forget a weirdly nasty private message I received about 3 or more yrs ago from the forumer in question. Things like that along with his odd trollish glee at contradicting other forumers & dissing LA with the kind of joy that to me is vaguely reminiscent of a kid who likes dropping the household cat off a rooftop convinced me that, yes, there are mental health issues at play.

Originally Posted by ByTheBay

People avoid DTLA not because it's new, but because it's old.

bythebay, I have to disagree since to me the issue isn't whether something is old or new but whether it's nicely maintained & presentable or not. dtla has long been at a disadvantage not due to its age, but cuz too much of it has traditionally not been exactly gorgeous & exciting.

This vid is very revealing to me, cuz it shows dtla....from over 60 yrs ago...when it still hadn't become totally outflanked by the burbs. A time when far more ppl still were making an effort to visit dt. But notice how much of it looks tired, somewhat poor, & not appealing in a shining city on the hill sort of way......


• Video Link

^ That is the main reason I think lots of ppl starting from some time ago weren't exactly over the idea of spending their waking hours elsewhere, or no longer visiting, shopping, working....& certainly living....in dtla. It also illustrates how dtla today in certain ways is better than it has ever been. Better than it was even when it still was more of the center of LA, but mainly cuz there were fewer competing hoods throughout southern Ca.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by citywatch

lasportsfan, I need to point out that any major business in dt that isn't attracting crowds is not necessarily due to a lack of ppl in the hood....since Bottega louie & other older restaurants have proven there's big $$ to be made. Based on several reviews I've come across of coco laurent....which should give its owner sleepless nights....there appears to be some big complaints about the restaurant's staff & a feeling the food doesn't justify the pricing.

nonetheless, at this stage in dt's evolution, it still may seem like a saturation point has been reached if such MAJOR restaurants....places where the owner has invested lots of money....don't survive very long. I still recall reading various reviews at yelp from ppl who'd comment on how quiet the towne restaurant in the watermark tower was, but its closing still took me by surprise & was disappointing.

Some ppl have said that restaurants & stores close up all the time in any number of hoods throughout LA. that is certainly true. But the impact of that may be less exasperating cuz those other hoods have a longer history of supporting a larger number of nice businesses, so there's less riding on a few newer shops that have recently opened. Or those hoods have plenty of other nice stores & restaurants to make up for the loss of a few competitors.

dtla also has so many spaces that need to be leased or filled in with nice businesses, that the loss of a decent shop or restaurant....even if its closing is the fault of poor management....still will not sit well with me.




That's disconcerting, since those aren't exactly off hours, & Thursday, unless it was an uncommon weekday holiday, isn't exactly an off day. I was hoping you took those photos at a much later hour of the afternoon, when restaurants in any city in the world also won't be buzzing. but there are interesting contradictions....



and yet the same restaurant that in one photo seems very, very quiet, even when more ppl, esp office workers, are in dt, is the same place that you noticed far more ppl were dining in on a weekend, on a sunday! I just hope that CL...but even more so figaro on broadway....can weather this stage in dt's evolution.

believe what you want. im looking out my window right now and there are people in the patio eating. the place is getting busier every day

[Valyrian Steel]

Gilmore Planning to Sell Lot at Vibiana as Restaurant Advances

photo by Gary Leonard

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES - A Main Street parking lot that is entitled for a 41-story residential tower could soon change hands, but not before the city weighs a proposed change to its approvals.

Tom Gilmore, the Old Bank District developer who also owns the cathedral-turned-private events venue Vibiana, said he is in advanced talks with a buyer for the lot next to the building.

In the meantime, he is seeking city approval to make the two side-by-side parcels near Second and Main streets what is known as a “unified development.”

That designation would essentially require that any future project works in harmony — architecturally and design-wise — with the historic edifice, Gilmore said.

“It’s a formality to reiterate the original entitlements that we’ve got,” Gilmore said. “It just means that we’ll have input [on the design of a future project] and that’s really all we want. It’s protecting us from anybody who would do something inexcusably stupid.”

The change to the entitlements will be considered at a Zoning Administrator hearing on June 5.

The move comes as the partnership of Neal Fraser, Amy Knoll and Bill Chait is set to begin construction on a new restaurant dubbed Red Bird at Vibiana, Gilmore said.

The timeline is uncertain.

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/gilmo...ed6bb10-c337-11e2-86b8-0019bb2963f4.html

[blackcat23]

Interesting.

So perhaps that rendering from LargeArch a few days ago is in fact the new design.

[BrandonJXN]

Downtown Update:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/the-d...91d651e-c3d5-11e2-8963-001a4bcf887a.html

[Muji]

Those LADTN updates are great aren't they? It is mentioned in the article but I wanted to say that renovation of the Regent has kicked into high gear. You can pretty much see into the entire building from the Main Street sidewalk.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by Muji

Those LADTN updates are great aren't they? It is mentioned in the article but I wanted to say that renovation of the Regent has kicked into high gear. You can pretty much see into the entire building from the Main Street sidewalk.

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. It was filled with rubble on the inside. Also, I've seen them working on the Alexandria annex building lately. Looks like they had the first floor mostly demoed and a set of temporary stairs were installed in the back. That's gonna really help that block I think.

[alki]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

Spent the last 5 days in LA. Here are some pictures. No labels because you all know the places better than I do.

I want to say a couple of things though

1) Ive been following this thread for years, and was excited about all the projects – but in person it was a bit disappointing. Basically, you can have 15 amazing projects, but downtown LA is so big it’s like a drop in the bucket. Theres much to be done.

Not surprised at your reaction. For someone seeing DTLA for the first time, its got to be disappointing.......but for the people who've been watching for the past 10-15 years, most of the changes have been to the positive and the place looks a lot better. Its good to remember that for many decades, DTLA was tortured into its 21st century existence. Its going to take a while to undo all the bad planning and design.

2) Downtown LA is so damn empty, its weird. Where the people at?

Its building........LA is crazy that way...........streets will start gentrifying but there will be no people, then suddenly one day throngs appear out of no where. I suspect DTLA is in the building critical mass phase.

3) The streets are way too wide, especially because there’s so little traffic on the surface roads.

4) The pedestrian signals are almost all in clear violation of federal standards. The MUTCD demands walking speed be calculated at 3.5 feet per second – ie, old lady with a cane. Im a healthy 25 year old male and I barely reached the sidewalk when the timer said 0 multiple times. If someone gets hit, LA will lose a lawsuit for not following federal standards. It’s bad policy too, very anti-pedestrian.

5) I know LA tickets people for starting to cross when the timer starts – an abysmal policy. However, I noticed that there was an epidemic of intersection and crosswalk blocking. LA needs to ticket that. The new continental crosswalks are great on the near side, I never saw them blocked, but on the far side, they were always blocked. One thing I did love was the lack of honking, even when a bus blocked half the intersection.
On to the pictures then.

You have a great eye for detail......one can see that from your photos. DTLA needs more people like you.

Whats this tree called? I want one.

Fica aka the lollipop tree. A better tree........the Jacaranda:



From Brazil......blooms mostly in May/June and then again in Fall. Forms attractive canopy over the street........and when it flowers, it looks spectacular.

[alki]

Originally Posted by Wilcal

Illithid Dude,
I love your colorful enthusiasm; okay, I'll throw in the towel on this one--I like the more modest proposal. But just thinking about the project makes me wonder at the LA archdiocese and their complete abandonment of this lovely structure. Remember after the Northridge earthquake? The dumb-ass fools wanted to demolish the church rather than rebuild and retrofit. Granted, the area was a bit more dicey than now, but the church and is wealth could have made a huge improvement by investing in the area. What I would have envisioned would be similar to what I.M. Pei did for the First Church of Christ Scientist in Boston--truly stunning.

Although Vibiana's replacement isn't terrible:

[alki]

Originally Posted by brudy

This is true and applies to downtown as well. There are only ~55k residents downtown. .

Actually, 55k is a lot of people and then you have roughly 300-400k working DT as well. You go to small provincial towns in France.......pop. 30k.......and there are more people on the sidewalks than in DTLA. And that's because in France and other places, its part of the culture.......in LA, walking is still considered a bit exotic/foreign.

I said in another post that I suspect pedestrian traffic in DTLA is bldg a critical mass and one day you will see lots of pedestrians......meaning that walking has finally become part of the DT culture.

[alki]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Bummer, that's pretty bland..and oddly primary colored. I liked this version:


Source: Curbed

You've got to know that roof........which I think makes the design look intriguing.........wasn't going to make the cut. Without it, the bldg would be just okay IMO.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by alki

Not surprised at your reaction. For someone seeing DTLA for the first time, its got to be disappointing.......but for the people who've been watching for the past 10-15 years, most of the changes have been to the positive and the place looks a lot better. Its good to remember that DTLA was tortured into its 21st century appearance for many decades. Its going to take a while to undo all the bad planning and design.

It's actually more remarkable than we give it credit for. Of course there always going to be people like James who are underwhelmed by downtown. More often than not though, most people who I encounter are generally impressed with downtown. Long-time Angelenos who've seen it at its worst, friends from out of town, friends from overseas, strangers from NYC - I've seen it all. Considering that no one would be caught dead here a decade ago, it's pretty impressive what's happened here

[alki]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Dude you crack me up. I know you're just trolling but you're not even doing a good job of it. Interesting "human fabric" is exactly why people do visit DTLA. Its one of the few places in LA that has an authentic vibe to it. If you're not picking up on that, you have certainly never checked out the DTLA nightlife.

Frankly, I don't think Luva is trolling......in fact, I think you may be overly defensive. I know DTLA has improved but I have looked at the photos and vid clips that have been posted on this forum, and it looks to me its got a good ways to go. Its exciting compared to where it was 10-15 years ago but I wouldn't say its arrived at a place where it can be considered dynamic and engaging. I readily admit I haven't walked the streets in over 10 years.......so I could be wrong.