LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[brudy]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Oh, that's ugly, though with the right materials, it might not look terrible. Either way, the old version looked a lot better.

Me too. The new rendering kind of looks like a school or a civic building.

[Muji]

Wow, what a downgrade we got with Blossom Plaza. To echo brudy's thoughts... it in fact looks a lot like an actual school pretty close by, the Felicitas and Gonzalo Mendez Learning Center in Boyle Heights. This is not a good thing.


Along The Goldline Eastside par waltarrrrr, sur Flickr

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by brudy

There are only ~55k residents downtown. Think about that in terms of a very small town, because despite the architecture, that's not a lot of people. Yes there are draws to downtown - restaurants, music center, tourists. But there aren't that many people that actually live here, and that can make it feel very empty at times.

People also need to think of downtown in context of the rest of LA. It's competing against many other well-developed areas.

I don't think it will feel all that different until this next wave of development is complete and occupied. That will give downtown a ~10% boost in population.

I totally understand & agree with your observations. I think ppl in general have to be actually IN dtla to truly understand it, to get a complete sense of what makes it good or bad. I know when I envision it from a distance, I find myself becoming starry eyed about things. And then I pay an actual visit to dt, & in too many instances I feel like a person arriving at a party right after the last guest has gone home.

2 things are needed to bring greater balance to the picture: more ppl have to live, work & play in dt 24/7, or more areas in dt have to be cleaned up & made attractive. Preferably both. But if a lot of either option isn't possible right now, then hopefully more of one will occur to make up for the lack of the other.

So crowds of ppl walking around rundown or gap ridden sections of dt will be ok, or overly quiet sidewalks that go by nothing but nice devlpt will be ok.

this pic from jamesinclair shows the potential of one, but not the other....mainly an area that soon won't have a parking lot....where the new apt proj from carmel partners is rising....but where there aren't enough ppl to fill up the sidewalk tables of the newly opened coco laurent restaurant.



jamesinclair

^ now if that pic showed crowds of ppl walking around & dining, but the parking lot south of the brockman still was untouched & deadening, that would be sort of the reverse of the current situation...or what things will be like when that huge gap north of 8th st, east of grand ave, is finally filled in, but if lots of ppl still won't be visible even during the weekday.

btw, worrisome news about coco laurent....I read a recent review of it at yelp & a customer claims she overheard that restaurant's employees talking about how their paychecks have bounced. everyone still has to remember that we in LA remain in a sluggish economy. A recent report said that only 200 jobs were created in all of LA county last month.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

talk about heresay.... jesus, dont believe everything you hear.

From my multiple daily observations of CL, the crowds have gotten larger and larger and its pretty busy now for lunch and dinner.

That pic is probably at 3 o clock when no one eats

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

talk about heresay.... jesus, dont believe everything you hear.

From my multiple daily observations of CL, the crowds have gotten larger and larger and its pretty busy now for lunch and dinner.

That pic is probably at 3 o clock when no one eats

I agree. When I went for my update last weekend I was in town for lunch time and Figat7th was shockingly packed. Along with the Target. There were lines at the registers several customers long, and not to mention the street life. All the suits were out of their offices eating. Next time, I'll be sure to snap shots of the pedestrian life. I used to venture into Downtown in the early 2000's and I can say that there has been a dramatic increase in streetlife. Downtown is gaining a bit of a safer reputation. A few old uncles still recall how gangs roamed downtown at one point in time, and recall the madness of the riots. I can safely say those times are long gone. We have vastly improved since then.

[LosAngelesBeauty]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

I agree. When I went for my update last weekend I was in town for lunch time and Figat7th was shockingly packed. Along with the Target. There were lines at the registers several customers long, and not to mention the street life. All the suits were out of their offices eating. Next time, I'll be sure to snap shots of the pedestrian life. I used to venture into Downtown in the early 2000's and I can say that there has been a dramatic increase in streetlife. Downtown is gaining a bit of a safer reputation. A few old uncles still recall how gangs roamed downtown at one point in time, and recall the madness of the riots. I can safely say those times are long gone. We have vastly improved since then.

More pics of a very packed lunchtime crowd at FIGat7th:

http://brighamyen.com/2013/01/18/taste-at-figat7th-becoming-the-hottest-lunch-spot-in-downtown-la/

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by BrighamYen

More pics of a very packed lunchtime crowd at FIGat7th:

http://brighamyen.com/2013/01/18/taste-at-figat7th-becoming-the-hottest-lunch-spot-in-downtown-la/

[edluva]

jamesinstclair's depiction is pretty accurate. dtla is currently active only in certain parts, and at certain times. it is just a neighborhood in la though, and has never been among the more interesting ones at that.

and it is not "our manhattan". it may be "our downtown manhattan" at best.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by edluva

jamesinstclair's depiction is pretty accurate. dtla is currently active only in certain parts, and at certain times. it is just a neighborhood in la though, and has never been among the more interesting ones at that.

and it is not "our manhattan". it may be "our downtown manhattan" at best.

Well if it isn't everyone's favorite SSP sourpuss! Where have you been Ed Luva?

So if DTLA is not our Manhattan, what neighborhood is, dare I ask?

[brudy]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

talk about heresay.... jesus, dont believe everything you hear.

From my multiple daily observations of CL, the crowds have gotten larger and larger and its pretty busy now for lunch and dinner.

That pic is probably at 3 o clock when no one eats

The irony of that shot is that I had brunch at Coco on Sunday. The place was pretty full and we sat on the patio and watched a fair amount of people go by. Like I wrote above, downtown can still feel bleak at times, you need to know where to go. But despite jamessinclair's pic, 7th st around that area is one of the more dense areas and full of pedestrians.

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by DistrictDirt

Well if it isn't everyone's favorite SSP sourpuss! Where have you been Ed Luva?

So if DTLA is not our Manhattan, what neighborhood is, dare I ask?

Everything between the Santa Monica Mountains and the 10 Freeway, Downtown and Santa Monica. That would kinda make Century City Midtown too.

[pwright1]

Originally Posted by edluva

jamesinstclair's depiction is pretty accurate. dtla is currently active only in certain parts, and at certain times. it is just a neighborhood in la though, and has never been among the more interesting ones at that.

and it is not "our manhattan". it may be "our downtown manhattan" at best.

Active only in certain parts? What downtown in America is active at all times on every street, in every neighborhood on every corner? None. I think its by far one of LA's most unique and interesting neighborhoods and by far one of the hottest. It looks like a dt. It feels like a dt. It takes time but to me, even over the 2 yrs I've been here its improved by at least 500% The days of being the laughing stock are gone forever.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by pwright1

Active only in certain parts? What downtown in America is active at all times on every street, in every neighborhood on every corner? None. I think its by far one of LA's most unique and interesting neighborhoods and by far one of the hottest. It looks like a dt. It feels like a dt. It takes time but to me, even over the 2 yrs I've been here its improved by at least 500% The days of being the laughing stock are gone forever.

A big eye-opener for me happened recently when one of my NYC friends announced on Facebook that he visiting LA for a week, and asked for recommendations on what neighborhood to stay in. The majority of Angelenos that responded recommended Downtown, with Santa Monica a close second. The only people that recommended Hollywood and Beverly Hills were out-of-towners that don't know better. Things have definitely shifted in the past couple years.

Another indicator: visit the CityData LA forum sometime. I used this forum quite a bit when I moved to LA in late 2009, and I remember the poo-pooing of DTLA I saw on there. Now its a completely different story, with forumers singing downtown's praises, and giving much more realistic and useful advice than "Hurr durr its dangerous and there are homeless hurr durr".

I know these are anecdotal, so if someone wants to get rigorous about it instead, they could simply plot the number of new DTLA shops, restaurants, apartments, condos, and hotel rooms over time. I guarantee that the last 10 years are going to show exponential growth.

[jamesinclair]

If my memory is correct, the pictures of Figaro and Coco (and the walk between) were taken between 12 and 2pm on Thursday. The picture of the Target center would have been around 5pm on Wednesday.

I did want to add that even though the city felt empty, it never felt unsafe.

One exception: We picked someone up at Union station and were driving down Los Angeles Ave. Things got real sketchy at around Los Angeles and 5th, which I believe is right by skid row. This was at 10:15pm.


Someone mentioned that only 55k live downtown. How many people work downtown though? id guess well over 200k. The problem is, everyone drives from their home garage to their building garage and they dont ever go outside.

Obviously, reducing parking so people take transit would put more people on the street. Another thing would require parking be separate from the building. That is, force people to walk outside for at leas a few feet.

[Munchitup]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

If my memory is correct, the pictures of Figaro and Coco (and the walk between) were taken between 12 and 2pm on Thursday. The picture of the Target center would have been around 5pm on Wednesday.

I did want to add that even though the city felt empty, it never felt unsafe.

One exception: We picked someone up at Union station and were driving down Los Angeles Ave. Things got real sketchy at around Los Angeles and 5th, which I believe is right by skid row. This was at 10:15pm.


Someone mentioned that only 55k live downtown. How many people work downtown though? id guess well over 200k. The problem is, everyone drives from their home garage to their building garage and they dont ever go outside.

Obviously, reducing parking so people take transit would put more people on the street. Another thing would require parking be separate from the building. That is, force people to walk outside for at leas a few feet.

That's not necessarily true... Too bad you couldn't have seen 7th Street / Metro Center at about 9 AM or 5 PM with Blue, Expo, Red and Purple Lines coming in. It gets quite busy and I'd say equates to about how Park Street Station in Boston would get most weekdays (unless the Sawks are playing).

I mean, my wife has free garage parking in her building and still takes the subway a couple times a month to avoid traffic. Her support staff is not provided any parking.

[edluva]

Originally Posted by pwright1

Active only in certain parts? What downtown in America is active at all times on every street, in every neighborhood on every corner? None. I think its by far one of LA's most unique and interesting neighborhoods and by far one of the hottest. It looks like a dt. It feels like a dt. It takes time but to me, even over the 2 yrs I've been here its improved by at least 500% The days of being the laughing stock are gone forever.

see jamesinstclair's response re: dtla as a vertical office park (driving from garage to garage)

besides the historic architecture, dtla has uninteresting retail and is barely becoming a neighborhood even now - yes there are 55k residents but real organic neighborhoods take decades to build.

this is not to say it doesn't have a future or that it hasn't made progress. yes, it's made progress, from nothing.

visitors don't come to a city and decide that a neighborhood is interesting because of the progress it's made. "interesting" is not a sympathetic moral judgement. Interesting is about the human fabric that makes up a neighborhood, and the physical manifestation of that human fabric. dtla has yet to find a uniquely local identity, and a few national/regional anchors does little to advance that effort. in the absolute sense dtla just got a Target, a Ralph's, and has a few scenesy restaurants. It's got old town pasadena in its crosshairs. world class indeed.

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by Munchitup

That's not necessarily true... Too bad you couldn't have seen 7th Street / Metro Center at about 9 AM or 5 PM with Blue, Expo, Red and Purple Lines coming in. It gets quite busy and I'd say equates to about how Park Street Station in Boston would get most weekdays (unless the Sawks are playing).

I mean, my wife has free garage parking in her building and still takes the subway a couple times a month to avoid traffic. Her support staff is not provided any parking.

I actually was in the metro stop a few times.

Wednesday at 5:45pm - it was crowded, but only because the platforms are too narrow (expo). Return at 9pm, still a good amount of people, but waits were ridiculous. Apparently the purple line wasnt running and the red line was single tracked - and not a single sign was posted.

Thursday at maybe 2ish (red line) and then return at 5ish. Felt like a Saturday in Boston.

[Munchitup]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

I actually was in the metro stop a few times.

Wednesday at 5:45pm - it was crowded, but only because the platforms are too narrow (expo). Return at 9pm, still a good amount of people, but waits were ridiculous. Apparently the purple line wasnt running and the red line was single tracked - and not a single sign was posted.

Thursday at maybe 2ish (red line) and then return at 5ish. Felt like a Saturday in Boston.

That is a bummer. Nothing worse than the transit system letting down a visitor. Personally Metro has had a great track record when I use it (~1 time a week).

[RuFFy]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

If my memory is correct, the pictures of Figaro and Coco (and the walk between) were taken between 12 and 2pm on Thursday. The picture of the Target center would have been around 5pm on Wednesday.

I did want to add that even though the city felt empty, it never felt unsafe.

One exception: We picked someone up at Union station and were driving down Los Angeles Ave. Things got real sketchy at around Los Angeles and 5th, which I believe is right by skid row. This was at 10:15pm.


Someone mentioned that only 55k live downtown. How many people work downtown though? id guess well over 200k. The problem is, everyone drives from their home garage to their building garage and they dont ever go outside.

Obviously, reducing parking so people take transit would put more people on the street. Another thing would require parking be separate from the building. That is, force people to walk outside for at leas a few feet.

I think there are upwards of half a million employees working in DTLA. Also, the express busses from all over the region are packed with people headed to downtown.

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by edluva

visitors don't come to a city and decide that a neighborhood is interesting because of the progress it's made. "interesting" is not a sympathetic moral judgement. Interesting is about the human fabric that makes up a neighborhood, and the physical manifestation of that human fabric. dtla has yet to find a uniquely local identity, and a few national/regional anchors does little to advance that effort. in the absolute sense dtla just got a Target, a Ralph's, and has a few scenesy restaurants. It's got old town pasadena in its crosshairs. world class indeed.

Dude you crack me up. I know you're just trolling but you're not even doing a good job of it. Interesting "human fabric" is exactly why people do visit DTLA. Its one of the few places in LA that has an authentic vibe to it. If you're not picking up on that, you have certainly never checked out the DTLA nightlife.

DTLA is the hippest place in Southern California by a mile, which tells me all I need to know about its trajectory: complete and total gentrification. The fact that you're not picking up on this and instead are focusing on crap like the Target tells me all I need to know about you: you're a shut-in.