DENVER | Transportation Thread

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

#firstworldproblems. Here in the provinces, we're happy not to be working in stone tablets.

Are we losing bus-to-bus transfers too?

From my reading of things last night, I assumed that bus to bus transfers are being nixed. While that isn't great for one way trips requiring transfers, it doesn't affect those who need a round trip ticket. For those who need a round trip ticket, I gather they can buy a day pass and make unlimited transfers.

Personally, allowing a single transfer would be a nice gesture for lower income riders just going on a one way trip. Even then, as page 118 demonstrates, there are federal mandates for reduced fares (i.e. 1/2 price) for "seniors 65+, Medicare recipients and persons with disabilities during the off-peak period[,]" and RTD staff recommends the discount be extended to " to all time periods and to students ages 6-19." They also recommend the day pass have the discount as well. A good start, but that extension doesn't apply to everyone living at say 125% of the federal poverty line, an arbitrary amount on my part.

From the zmapper link:

Originally Posted by Page 99

Fare Study Final Staff Recommendation

Staff received valuable input and guidance during these meetings with you. There were some recurring concerns and thoughts expressed at these meetings and this final staff recommendation reflects the key common themes and goals articulated by many of you during these discussions. Specifically, key differences from the draft recommendation that are incorporated in the final staff recommendation, as well as some key observations are outlined below:

. . .

Maintains the approach of eliminating transfers while establishing a Day Pass priced at two times the single ride fare. This eliminates a major source of stress for RTD’s passengers and operators while also helping to address a key concern regarding affordability for many of RTD’s transit dependent and low income passengers. The day pass will allow passengers to make multiple trips in a day for the same price as a round trip, improving value and mobility options.

[bunt_q]

Ah yes forgot about the day pass. Nice.

$25.20 r/t to the airport it looks like, assuming one transfer and no parking fees. Still pretty steep. Makes sense alone. For two, that puts the break-even vs. airport parking at a 5-6 day trip.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ah yes forgot about the day pass. Nice.

$25.20 r/t to the airport it looks like, assuming one transfer and no parking fees. Still pretty steep. Makes sense alone. For two, that puts the break-even vs. airport parking at a 5-6 day trip.

It'll be curious to see how many visitors will use the A-Line versus residents. 70/30? 60/40? 80/20?

[The Dirt]

ECO passes still work if I want to ride to DIA, right? My 4 year old rides free, I assume, too. If my wife is the only one paying while my daughter and I ride for free then that's the only way I think it'll make sense for us, and even then, probably only in good weather. Kind of a shame. I was expecting at least $10 but, hoping for something more reasonable like $5-8.

I'll probably start riding the A line into downtown from time to time, although, it's going to easily double my commute time versus driving so, it'll have to happen as a plan B. Still, the bus currently takes me 55 minutes plus walking and waiting time versus 25-35 minutes driving.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I'll probably start riding the A line into downtown from time to time, although, it's going to easily double my commute time versus driving so, it'll have to happen as a plan B. Still, the bus currently takes me 55 minutes plus walking and waiting time versus 25-35 minutes driving.

How in the hell would the A Line take 55-minutes to go three stations from Central Park Station to Union Station? Even including transferring to the Mall Ride or Metro Ride it should see you taking 30 minutes or less from station to work.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

How in the hell would the A Line take 55-minutes to go three stations from Central Park Station to Union Station? Even including transferring to the Mall Ride or Metro Ride it should see you taking 30 minutes or less from station to work.

I was including door to door time.
- 10 minute walk from house to station
- 5-10 minute wait
- 20 minute ride
- 5 minute wait and walk for metro ride
- 5 minute metro ride
- 5 minute walk
= 50-55 minutes

[matteric]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ah yes forgot about the day pass. Nice.

$25.20 r/t to the airport it looks like, assuming one transfer and no parking fees. Still pretty steep. Makes sense alone. For two, that puts the break-even vs. airport parking at a 5-6 day trip.

Presumably if you're transferring you could buy a "skyride" level day pass, which would put your roundtrip at $22. Still pretty steep compared to just using the shuttle lot, but on the other hand you don't have to deal with your car, scrape anything off... I dunno. I think RTD might have to drop that price at some point, but they really seem married to the idea of "goes to airport" as a premium service.

Also note that for the purposes of the day pass or monthly pass, a "regional" level pass will get you on to skyride with no upcharge. Not sure what they're doing with ECO passes; they might just switch everyone currently on an eco pass over to a regional pass on a smartcard (which would be the highest level of pass)

[bcp]

so....here is my question - if I live near 40th PnR, or one of the other stations close to DIA....it's a $10 ride?

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ah yes forgot about the day pass. Nice.

$25.20 r/t to the airport it looks like, assuming one transfer and no parking fees. Still pretty steep. Makes sense alone. For two, that puts the break-even vs. airport parking at a 5-6 day trip.

If that's round trip it's only about 1/4 (less actually than my experience last time I was there) the cost of a cab/car or shuttle. If I have bags I can manage it will be train all the way. That even works out for when there are two of us traveling.

[TakeFive]

Ah Hah... Wong mentioned the topic and I suggested that Kansas could be the poster child. Josh Heck of the Wichita Business Journal but carried by the DBJ has the story HERE.

"Construction company Sherwood moving workers to Colorado"

Sherwood Cos., a Kansas-based civil-construction company whose main business is road and highway construction work, is moving workers to Colorado Springs and Oklahoma from its home state amid continued cuts to Kansas' highway department budget.

Gov. Sam Brownback has proposed cutting $100 million from the state's highway fund as part a plan to close the state's $344 million budget shortfall.

Gov. Sam Brownback has led a bold (and controversial) plan of tax cutting in hope of attracting more business to the state.

Meanwhile Arizona is dealing with a $1.5 billion deficit (over 18 months). Few years ago they carved out some sweet sales tax exceptions to their biggest donors while other tax breaks are just getting ready to kick in. ADOT will be one of the losers. Additionally they gave Apple special breaks for a (now) proposed data center. They pay $880,000 less in property taxes than First Solar who built the building did.

The above is NOT intended to disparage Red States in general. Nearby states like Texas, Oklahoma and Utah are doing fine - and aren't "racing to the (tax) bottom."

At least Colorado isn't having to deal with cuts like this. Now if they could just get their collective minds around a plan to fund to Colorado's needs.

[TakeFive]

Sounds like it's virtually a "Go" to me. Cathy Proctor has the update at the DBJ HERE.

"Companies line up to bid for work on RTD light rail extension"

Four teams of companies are in the running to build a $207 million, 2.3-mile extension of the Regional Transportation District's Southeast light rail line that runs down Interstate 25.

The extension project has been accepted into the first phase of the Federal Transit Administration's "New Starts Capital Investment Program." RTD applied for $92 million in federal funds.

Who knows what political games may come up in the U.S. House but doesn't Rep. Mike Coffman represent that district? He's a good guy and should have the political muscle to Sheppard that through the House. In answer to my own question:

Office of Congressman Mike Coffman
Federal Government Office
Address: 9220 Kimmer Drive #220, Lone Tree, CO 80124

That's a wrap.

[EngiNerd]

Isn't $90 million per mile quite a lot for light rail? There must be some other bridge reconstruction involved.

[TakeFive]

Seems I did some rough calculations for Fastracks that was $55-$60 million per mile. But that was complicated by the P3 etc.

Good question. There will be 3 new stations and maybe that price includes parking garage instead of surface parking. Seems I recall mention of alternatives depending on funding. Plus end of line stuff? Pretty busy for a 2.3 mile stretch I guess. Also guessing that Lone Tree's contribution is partly for upgrades.

[CharlesCO]

The "downtown"*** Lone Tree station is a subway. That's probably why it's so expensive. There's also supposed to be a bridge across I-25 and a 2,000 space garage at the final station, Ridge Gate Parkway.




***Currently an empty lot.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Ah yes forgot about the day pass. Nice.

$25.20 r/t to the airport it looks like, assuming one transfer and no parking fees. Still pretty steep. Makes sense alone. For two, that puts the break-even vs. airport parking at a 5-6 day trip.

Yeah parking in the Economy lot for 3 days is $39 so you wouldn't be saving anything other than gas and time if you're going with someone else. I was hoping for more like $15 r/t. Will this be the most expensive airport rail connection in the country? I recently used the LRT to/from the airport in Portland and it was like $5 r/t.

[CharlesCO]

I think a lot of these concerns about the airport line are really overblown. BART to SFO is about $10 one way from where I live and $11.65 from the end of the line station. I have the iBART app that tells me real time departures (is that something RTD has? Probably not.) so that I walk to the station just as the train arrives. I have the Clipper Card which automatically deducts the right fare at the fare gates. (Clipper Card also gives you a free transfer onto any Muni bus in the 90-120 minutes after you disembark the BART system, which is helpful for people in the city.) BART to SFO is more convenient for me as it's faster than battling horrendous Bay Area traffic, and it's cheaper than dealing with parking at the airport. I also have peace of mind knowing that my car is at my place where I know it will be watched instead of in a garage. That's probably silly, but at least it's something I don't have to worry about.

I know it's not a like-for-like comparison, but the A train will ultimately see a lot of use. Pena Boulevard will never be as congested as the Bay Bridge and the Bayshore Freeway, though this train is not meant to compete against everything. I would probably use it if I lived in Denver still and had a similar living arrangement living on my own as I do here in the East Bay. This is also a huge, huge convenience for visitors. They will be overwhelmingly won over with the airport train.

The only downside is if it's $10 to go even just from the 40th and Airport Blvd. station to the airport. That would suck. That's why you have fare gates that automatically deduct the correct amount based on distance traveled.

[seventwenty]

Well, the A Line's cheaper than the CAT in Vienna (assuming you use that instead of the normal train, which is cheaper).

I am trying to find a real list of (American) city center to airport fares. I think Boston was like $2.75 for me to take the Green Line from BU to the airport. Shame my flights never left at a time when I could use the damn train. Fucking Boston and their refusal to have late night trains...

Seattle's about $2.50-$2.75 to SeaTac.
$5 to JFK
$5 to Newark
Interesting cost to LaGuardia
$6.50 or $8 to Philadelphia Airport, depending on whether you buy the ticket on the train or in advance
Portland is indeed $2.50 to PDX
$8.65 from downtown SF to SFO, or $10.05 to Oakland Airport

K done looking because tired. Someone else compare.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

The "downtown"*** Lone Tree station is a subway. That's probably why it's so expensive. There's also supposed to be a bridge across I-25 and a 2,000 space garage at the final station, Ridge Gate Parkway.




***Currently an empty lot.

Thanks for that, I figured there had to be more going on with the extension than just rail.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Well, the A Line's cheaper than the CAT in Vienna (assuming you use that instead of the normal train, which is cheaper).

I am trying to find a real list of (American) city center to airport fares. I think Boston was like $2.50 for me to take the Green Line from BU to the airport. Shame my flights never left at a time when I could use the damn train. Fucking Boston and their refusal to have late night trains...

Going from O'Hare to the Loop is $5 one way on the Blue line...and its only about 5 miles closer in than DIA is from DUS.

[bcp]

^ and it's $2.25 to MDW

Is this about a system that makes sense...or revenue replacement for RTD? Still curious what the cost is for Montbello residents...seems they are getting hosed pretty bad - this is where the zone system actually made sense (despite being a bit confusing).