Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[JMK]

Bridge beams made in West Valley City—more than 200 feet long—will help support I-15 widening in Lehi


Most newer concrete beams that hold up Utah highway bridges are around 145 feet long. But the Utah Department of Transportation is about to place six that are 40 percent longer — 203 feet — to help widen Interstate 15 in Lehi.

They are longer than the iconic Cinderella’s castle in Walt Disney World (189 feet) is high, or the leaning tower of Pisa (185 feet).

They also will be the third-longest single-component beams in the United States, slightly shorter than two in Orlando, Fla., and Seattle, said Lee Wegner, with Forterra Structural Precast, the West Valley City company that is making them.

They may also create a bit of a spectacle along Utah highways over the next few days. They are being shipped one at a time on long, wide trailers that take up two lanes of traffic — with Highway Patrol and pilot car escorts — and will mostly travel on freeways.

And crews will have “two massive cranes out there dropping pretty massive beams into place” in Lehi over a four-day process beginning probably on Thursday, said UDOT spokesman John Gleason.

The beams are being installed where I-15 crosses over some rail tracks and trails between the Lehi Main Street and 2100 North exits, and will help widen the freeway as part of the Technology Corridor project. Installation is not expected to interfere with or slow I-15 traffic, which is detoured around the work location.

“They are massive,” Wegner said about the beams. “They are roughly 225,000 pounds — a quarter-million pounds. They are just over 8 feet deep.”

He adds, “Up until probably the last five to 10 years, the technology did not exist to stretch them out to what we can do now.”

The pre-stressed concrete beams contain “68 half-inch-diameter steel cables running down the middle of them. Each one of those cables is pulled to about 44,000 pounds of stress,” Wegner said.

“With 68 in there, there is roughly 3 million pounds of force within the beam,” he said. “One of my engineers who used to work for Thiokol tells me that is enough to get the space shuttle into orbit.”

Once the steel cables are stretched and stressed, he said, “The concrete is poured around them and is allowed to cure. Once it is cured to a specified strength, the cables are cut, and that force is then introduced into the concrete. So they have 3 million pounds of stored force just sitting there.”

Wegner said, “That allows you to turn a piece of concrete that is inherently weak in tension into something that is able to counteract tension” and support heavy traffic loads.

He added, “We use a super-high-strength concrete,” which can cure to needed strength overnight.

UDOT is using the upcoming transport and placement of the beams to urge drivers to slow down through I-15 construction in Utah County. The speed limit has been lowered to 60 mph there, but Gleason said far too many drivers are going faster.

“We still seeing a lot of people who are traveling too fast,” Gleason said. “The speed limit is there to protect all of us. The lanes are narrowed. They are winding. Sixty mph is a safe speed.”

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/201...A78HRwJ9fqXK0hOKGaKMTr8Lw0s2hDX8qsCw2g3M

[Hatman]

I'm not in agreement with UDOT's planners that roads need to be widened as much as they're doing now (I would prefer the planners plan for more transit!), but boy do I love UDOT's engineers. The stuff they're doing with moving bridges and new types of concrete beams is so awesome!

Also, more free-fare days may be coming this winter:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46446291/uta-free-fare-days-could-be-used-to-combat-air-pollution

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I'm not in agreement with UDOT's planners that roads need to be widened as much as they're doing now (I would prefer the planners plan for more transit!), but boy do I love UDOT's engineers. The stuff they're doing with moving bridges and new types of concrete beams is so awesome!

Also, more free-fare days may be coming this winter:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46446291/uta-free-fare-days-could-be-used-to-combat-air-pollution

Something else that could help with air pollution is to bring back the state EV tax credit and make it bigger than it was. Get people into the many different kinds of all-electric cars that are available and so many more coming out next year. Making TRAX and BRT lines free from Thanksgiving to Easter would help as well.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Stenar

I wish the legislature/governor would use this $1.3 Billion budget surplus to make UTA free.

There is at least a start happening:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46446291/uta-free-fare-days-could-be-used-to-combat-air-pollution

The Wasatch Front has been covered with a thick blanket of smog and pollution, but there could soon be a new tool to fight the murky inversion in the future — and the Utah Transit Authority may help.

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert wants to set aside $100 million in 2020 for cleaner air. Part of that money would go toward free public transportation days during times of poor air quality.

UTA spokesman Carl Arky said a lot of details still need to be worked out before a solid plan can come into picture, but agreed the public transportation system offered a way to reduce the level of pollution created by commuter vehicles.

“How can we respond? How quickly can we respond? What would it take to do so? There’s a million moving parts and we look forward to the challenge of figuring that out,” Arky said.

UTA organized a Free Fare Friday in December 2017. Ridership went up about 23 percent that day. Arky said the increase in ridership proved both that people will use public transportation and that UTA can pull it off.

That free day, in particular, cost about $75,000, according to Arky.

“I think UTA is ready,” Arky added. “We just want to sit down, and we want to hear what the governor’s office is thinking, and what they’re thinking up at Capitol Hill, and work with them.”

While Herbert has $100 million earmarked for cleaner air, it’s not clear how much of that would go towards the free fare days.

With the State now authorized to provide funding for transit, I think it is great that the Governor is looking at doing something to help clean the air.

With increased service planned to start in August 2019, I think it would be best to say that the free transit cost would increase to around $80,000 a day up from $75,000 in 2017.

Using the $80,000 figure, 10 days would be $800,000, 100 days would be $8,000,000 and 365 days would be $29,200,000. Again, these are using just UTA's numbers.

I can't see the Governor putting nearly 30% of the money towards transit but
it wouldn't be hard to imagine between 5% and 10% ($5 Million to $10 Million). If it could be 10%, that would allow free fares for nearly 1/3 of the business year. At that point, it would be easy to see the public push to make transit free for the full year. 1/3 of the funding could come from the State and 2/3 could come from the various Counties in the UTA district.

The Counties could provide the extra funding via the additional 0.25% sales tax that is available to them if they have enacted the Prop 1 transit tax (all but Utah County have). The funding would be sufficient to cover the remaining 2/3 for Free Transit and allow additional funds to be freed up for additional projects (BRT routes, FrontRunner upgrades and Trax expansions/extensions).

The State would like to have Free Transit along the Wasatch Front in place before 2030 with a goal of 2025.

Depending on how much money the State can provide, it may be possible to meet the 2025 goal.

Of course, the State also wants Trax to extend into Utah County, preferably to American Fork, by 2025 as well. The main hold up is Utah County and their lack of support for a sales tax that improves transit. While the State could fund the extension, they would rather assist with upgrading FrontRunner and have Utah County fund the Trax extension.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Provo
SLC
Ogden
Twin Falls
Boise

SLC to Boise is 339 miles via car, easily the closest metro to each other. 339 is pretty close to the sweet spot for high speed rail. These are 2 of the fastest growing areas in the USA. The Boise metro will hit 1 million sometime before 2040. Twin Falls is small(think St George) but it has a ridiculous near 7% growth rate. Further it is about 100 mi outside of Boise not bad with high speed rail.

I'm thinking an intra agency cooperative line between Utah Amtrak and Idaho. Utah is responsible for the line between Provo and Ogden, Amtrak from Ogden to Twin Falls, and Idaho from Idaho Falls to Boise(maybe Nampa).

The Stadler SMILE is designed to travel upwards of 150 mph. Not a record but pretty good.

A line like this might not only serve to create greater interconnectedness between the 2 metros but might serve as a catalyst for a larger network.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Provo
SLC
Ogden
Twin Falls
Boise

SLC to Boise is 339 miles via car, easily the closest metro to each other. 339 is pretty close to the sweet spot for high speed rail. These are 2 of the fastest growing areas in the USA. The Boise metro will hit 1 million sometime before 2040. Twin Falls is small(think St George) but it has a ridiculous near 7% growth rate. Further it is about 100 mi outside of Boise not bad with high speed rail.

I'm thinking an intra agency cooperative line between Utah Amtrak and Idaho. Utah is responsible for the line between Provo and Ogden, Amtrak from Ogden to Twin Falls, and Idaho from Idaho Falls to Boise(maybe Nampa).

The Stadler SMILE is designed to travel upwards of 150 mph. Not a record but pretty good.

A line like this might not only serve to create greater interconnectedness between the 2 metros but might serve as a catalyst for a larger network.

Or we could just bring back the Amtrack Pioneer like they proposed a few years ago...

[Hatman]

High-speed intercity rail would be awesome. But it doesn't come out of nowhere, we'd have to work our way up to it first. An Amtrak route between LA - Las Vegas - Provo/Salt Lake City/Ogden - Pocatello - Boise - Portland - Seattle would do very well, I think, and would be a good first step towards getting even faster rail service.

Also, the California Zephyr, which currently stops at Provo and Salt Lake City, should be adjusted to also pass through Ogden, IMO. Service could be restored to Ogden much sooner if there was the prospect of 2 long distance trains stopping there. And then there would be the additional draw of having passenger trains go out over the Great Salt Lake once again.

There's also the idea of a state-sponsored train to Moab in addition to the CZ: http://www.moabsunnews.com/news/article_25cfdb36-d2e6-11e8-b905-17b7880ded79.html

Also Also Also, I noticed last night that the second platform for the 300 East S-Line station has got its canopy up! That was faster than I expected:

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I'm not in agreement with UDOT's planners that roads need to be widened as much as they're doing now (I would prefer the planners plan for more transit!), but boy do I love UDOT's engineers. The stuff they're doing with moving bridges and new types of concrete beams is so awesome!

Also, more free-fare days may be coming this winter:
https://www.ksl.com/article/46446291/uta-free-fare-days-could-be-used-to-combat-air-pollution

I agree on both counts.

On the freeway widening projects, there was an article in the Tribune a few days ago about houses that UDOT had bought near the freeway to make way for an I-15 expansion....in Midvale. Are there really plans to widen the freeway in the middle of the Salt Lake Valley AGAIN? Does UDOT really think that will help traffic? And beyond that, I thought it was stated at one point that the widening around Lehi was going to be the last major I-15 widening project, at least for a while.

Here's the link to that article:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/12/11/udot-buys-homes-make-way/

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

Or we could just bring back the Amtrack Pioneer like they proposed a few years ago...

The problem is Amtrak sucks because they run on freight lines and they also don't have money for their own . My thought process is that Amtrak gets a high speed line on dedicated passenger rail from Provo to Boise for the cost of a line from Ogden to Twin Falls.

Synergy and stuff

Amtrak is still sharing rail (even trains) but with state transit agencies as opposed to freight companies.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Hatman

High-speed intercity rail would be awesome. But it doesn't come out of nowhere, we'd have to work our way up to it first. An Amtrak route between LA - Las Vegas - Provo/Salt Lake City/Ogden - Pocatello - Boise - Portland - Seattle would do very well, I think, and would be a good first step towards getting even faster rail service.

Also, the California Zephyr, which currently stops at Provo and Salt Lake City, should be adjusted to also pass through Ogden, IMO. Service could be restored to Ogden much sooner if there was the prospect of 2 long distance trains stopping there. And then there would be the additional draw of having passenger trains go out over the Great Salt Lake once again.

There's also the idea of a state-sponsored train to Moab in addition to the CZ: http://www.moabsunnews.com/news/article_25cfdb36-d2e6-11e8-b905-17b7880ded79.html

Also Also Also, I noticed last night that the second platform for the 300 East S-Line station has got its canopy up! ]

I would only add Vancouver (We can do that?) and Kolob Canyon Visitor Center to your list.

As far as the California Zephyr between SLC and Denver I think it should be replaced with this route.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/denver/V...x87523d9488d131ed:0x5b53b7a0484d31ca!3e0

Once beyond the greater Denver area the stops could include:
Loveland ski area
Copper Mountain
Vail
Eagle county Regional Airport
Vernal/Dinosaur
Park City
Salt Lake city

Provo and Ogden are already connected to the line via a simple transfer to FrontRunner. (Along with the rest of the WF)

4 Senators on board means we only need 47 more. I want a train for Christmas uncle Sam.

[bob rulz]

I don't see any chance that a high speed rail line between Salt Lake City and Boise would be profitable. I think the most we could ever hope for is to Las Vegas. Even Denver doesn't seem realistic, given the cost of building rail through the mountains, though I wonder if any studies have even been done about this.

With how cheap airfare is, I think the days of hoping for a cross-country high speed rail system is gone and past. That doesn't mean we couldn't do regional or state-level high speed rail still, but I think the prospects of Salt Lake City getting hooked up to any such system are very very slim to basically none.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I don't see any chance that a high speed rail line between Salt Lake City and Boise would be profitable. I think the most we could ever hope for is to Las Vegas. Even Denver doesn't seem realistic, given the cost of building rail through the mountains, though I wonder if any studies have even been done about this.

With how cheap airfare is, I think the days of hoping for a cross-country high speed rail system is gone and past. That doesn't mean we couldn't do regional or state-level high speed rail still, but I think the prospects of Salt Lake City getting hooked up to any such system are very very slim to basically none.

Cheap airfare won't last. The Canadian tar sands and US domestic drilling (according to Penn state we have roughly 5 years left at current rates) aren't going to save our ass next time.

Consumption continues to grow. Electric vehicles are decades away from having the necessary capacity to make a price impact and we are running out of oil globally. The worlds largest reserves are producing at around 80% of what they were a decade ago and we aren't finding new reserves nearly fast enough to make up for consumption. The next time oil hits 100 dollars a barrel it is likely permanent and only going to continue to become more expensive.

We should be looking at this seriously now(regional trains) but I suspect we won't until the mid 2020s when shit starts to get real.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

Cheap airfare won't last. The Canadian tar sands and US domestic drilling (according to Penn state we have roughly 5 years left at current rates) aren't going to save our ass next time.

Consumption continues to grow. Electric vehicles are decades away from having the necessary capacity to make a price impact and we are running out of oil globally. The worlds largest reserves are producing at around 80% of what they were a decade ago and we aren't finding new reserves nearly fast enough to make up for consumption. The next time oil hits 100 dollars a barrel it is likely permanent and only going to continue to become more expensive.

We should be looking at this seriously now(regional trains) but I suspect we won't until the mid 2020s when shit starts to get real.

Liberty Wellsian, This video goes into technology adoption and then talks about how electric cars can be adopted much quicker than we might think.

• Video Link

[Hatman]

I don't think the California Zephyr route is going to change anytime soon, but I would be absolutely thrilled if the following happened:

1) A private company decides it wants to run the route between Denver and Salt Lake City as a luxury rail excursion. This route is famous world-wide - you would be surprised at the number of rail fans who travel from afar just to go through the Moffat tunnel in Colorado and over Soldier Summit on Amtrak. This is the route, after all, that insipired the creation of the dome observation car, and it was the very last route in the whole of the United States to operate as a private, profitable route separate from Amtrak. Seriously, the guy who invented the iconic dome car drew up the first concept sketches in his hotel room in either Salt Lake City or Provo, I can't remember which:

Example of a dome car:


The Rio Grande railroad (now part of the Union Pacific) operated their luxury train called the Rio Grande Zephyr from Ogden to Denver for-profit until 1983, twelve years after Amtrak had taken over intercity passenger train operations. During this time Amtrak ran their 'Overland' route on the Union Pacific route through Cheyenne and Ogden.

Interest in passenger trains is rising; in fact, this year (2018) a new intercity rail service called Brightline (soon to be Virgin Trains USA) began operating in Florida, showing that profit can still be made from passenger trains.

In my ideal future, some group will resurrect the Rio Grande Zephyr as a luxury train - a tourist draw more than anything - and operate between Denver and Salt Lake City at much more reasonable times than Amtrak currently does (who wants to depart from Salt Lake City at 3:00 AM?) This would bring in more fame and tourism to Salt Lake City and Utah in general.

The old Rio Grande Zephyr in Salt Lake City:


2) Amtrak, in the face of the new Rio Grande Zephyr, decides to change their route between Denver and Salt Lake City to go north through Cheyenne, west to Ogden, and then South to Salt Lake City following Union Pacific's Overland Route. Believe it or not, but this route is several hours faster than the curvy and scenic route they currently use; when Amtrak has to detour on this route (which it currently does on occasion) the trains arrive in Salt Lake City from Denver at least 4 hours sooner. Also, this would mean that Cheyenne and Ogden would get their rail service back; this is significant, since Wyoming currently has no Amtrak service, so it would be a political win for Amtrak to add another state to their list (only South Dakota would remain unserved in the lower 48).

3) The long distance route I fantasized of before from LA to Seattle via Salt Lake City would be created. Call it the Desert Wind or the Pioneer or whatever dead train name you want to resurrect. By train it would take about 8 hours to go from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas (via Provo), so I'm imagining that section could be done overnight. Imagine going to bed in Las Vegas and waking up in Salt Lake City!
(The full route, once again, would be Los Angeles - Las Vegas - the Provo/Salt Lake City/Ogden corridor - Pocatello - Boise - Portland - Seattle)

At this point, all five rail routes through Utah would have passenger rail service again, and with that in place discussions of High Speed Rail could finally be taken more seriously.

**A point about High Speed Rail - everyone assumes that a route from SLC to Denver would require massive tunnels and investment due to the mountains in the way. I completely disagree. The best route is the Overland Route, which goes through Wyoming and avoids the mountains entirely. This route could be completed without a single tunnel needing to be drilled. Are these good city pairs for a Chinese-style HSR? Not at all, but engineering-wise it could be done just as easily as any two cities in the flat lands.

*5) While I'm dreaming, this same private company restoring the Rio Grande Zephyr would also be benevolent enough to rebuild the ~30 miles of track between Promontory Summit - the Golden Spike National Monument - and Corinne, so that daily excursion trains could be run from Ogden Union Station (the location of the Utah Rail Museum which is very golden-spike oriented (they even have one of them on display currently)). This service is already calculated to be profitable, but only if the rails were to already exist. Perhaps a grant from the state tourism fund could help build ~30 miles of rail? Perhaps the Union Pacific Railroad, which is spending $$$ to restore an old 4-8-8-4 locomotive to operating conditions as a public good-will endeavor, perhaps they would contribute to this project? Perhaps the national monument would also contribute, seeing as they would no longer need to pay for so large a parking lot at their site? Perhaps all three? However it happens, it seems so strange to me that we have extremely famous historic site in our state and it gets so little attention from us. Everybody knows that picture of the completion of the transcontinental railroad, and it was taken here in Utah. Having a train take you there from Ogden (also stopping in Brigham City) would be an amazing way to increase the amount of visitors coming to see the site and our state.

**6) The train to Moab idea. How cool would it be put your bike on a train in Salt Lake City, ride the train to Moab (while enjoying a breakfast on-board), spend a day there riding the trails, then return on the same train (eating dinner on-board again). It would be totally awesome! Seriously, if UDOT and the legislature can spend millions of dollars for a new parking garage in Moab because of current congestion, I think they would also be wise to consider building a passenger depot in Moab (freight rail already runs to the west side of the Colorado River) and offer grants to a rail operator to provide this service.

***7) While there is no rail line to Saint George, there is a rail-head in Cedar City, and that is plenty close enough to Zion National Park to begin offering a rail service oriented to the tourists headed for that area.
But now I'm really dreaming, and I'd better log off for the night.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Hatman

I don't think the California Zephyr route is going to change anytime soon, but I would be absolutely thrilled if the following happened:

1) A private company decides it wants to run the route between Denver and Salt Lake City as a luxury rail excursion. This route is famous world-wide - you would be surprised at the number of rail fans who travel from afar just to go through the Moffat tunnel in Colorado and over Soldier Summit on Amtrak. This is the route, after all, that insipired the creation of the dome observation car, and it was the very last route in the whole of the United States to operate as a private, profitable route separate from Amtrak. Seriously, the guy who invented the iconic dome car drew up the first concept sketches in his hotel room in either Salt Lake City or Provo, I can't remember which:

Example of a dome car:


The Rio Grande railroad (now part of the Union Pacific) operated their luxury train called the Rio Grande Zephyr from Ogden to Denver for-profit until 1983, twelve years after Amtrak had taken over intercity passenger train operations. During this time Amtrak ran their 'Overland' route on the Union Pacific route through Cheyenne and Ogden.

Interest in passenger trains is rising; in fact, this year (2018) a new intercity rail service called Brightline (soon to be Virgin Trains USA) began operating in Florida, showing that profit can still be made from passenger trains.

In my ideal future, some group will resurrect the Rio Grande Zephyr as a luxury train - a tourist draw more than anything - and operate between Denver and Salt Lake City at much more reasonable times than Amtrak currently does (who wants to depart from Salt Lake City at 3:00 AM?) This would bring in more fame and tourism to Salt Lake City and Utah in general.

The old Rio Grande Zephyr in Salt Lake City:


2) Amtrak, in the face of the new Rio Grande Zephyr, decides to change their route between Denver and Salt Lake City to go north through Cheyenne, west to Ogden, and then South to Salt Lake City following Union Pacific's Overland Route. Believe it or not, but this route is several hours faster than the curvy and scenic route they currently use; when Amtrak has to detour on this route (which it currently does on occasion) the trains arrive in Salt Lake City from Denver at least 4 hours sooner. Also, this would mean that Cheyenne and Ogden would get their rail service back; this is significant, since Wyoming currently has no Amtrak service, so it would be a political win for Amtrak to add another state to their list (only South Dakota would remain unserved in the lower 48).

3) The long distance route I fantasized of before from LA to Seattle via Salt Lake City would be created. Call it the Desert Wind or the Pioneer or whatever dead train name you want to resurrect. By train it would take about 8 hours to go from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas (via Provo), so I'm imagining that section could be done overnight. Imagine going to bed in Las Vegas and waking up in Salt Lake City!
(The full route, once again, would be Los Angeles - Las Vegas - the Provo/Salt Lake City/Ogden corridor - Pocatello - Boise - Portland - Seattle)

At this point, all five rail routes through Utah would have passenger rail service again, and with that in place discussions of High Speed Rail could finally be taken more seriously.

**A point about High Speed Rail - everyone assumes that a route from SLC to Denver would require massive tunnels and investment due to the mountains in the way. I completely disagree. The best route is the Overland Route, which goes through Wyoming and avoids the mountains entirely. This route could be completed without a single tunnel needing to be drilled. Are these good city pairs for a Chinese-style HSR? Not at all, but engineering-wise it could be done just as easily as any two cities in the flat lands.

*5) While I'm dreaming, this same private company restoring the Rio Grande Zephyr would also be benevolent enough to rebuild the ~30 miles of track between Promontory Summit - the Golden Spike National Monument - and Corinne, so that daily excursion trains could be run from Ogden Union Station (the location of the Utah Rail Museum which is very golden-spike oriented (they even have one of them on display currently)). This service is already calculated to be profitable, but only if the rails were to already exist. Perhaps a grant from the state tourism fund could help build ~30 miles of rail? Perhaps the Union Pacific Railroad, which is spending $$$ to restore an old 4-8-8-4 locomotive to operating conditions as a public good-will endeavor, perhaps they would contribute to this project? Perhaps the national monument would also contribute, seeing as they would no longer need to pay for so large a parking lot at their site? Perhaps all three? However it happens, it seems so strange to me that we have extremely famous historic site in our state and it gets so little attention from us. Everybody knows that picture of the completion of the transcontinental railroad, and it was taken here in Utah. Having a train take you there from Ogden (also stopping in Brigham City) would be an amazing way to increase the amount of visitors coming to see the site and our state.

**6) The train to Moab idea. How cool would it be put your bike on a train in Salt Lake City, ride the train to Moab (while enjoying a breakfast on-board), spend a day there riding the trails, then return on the same train (eating dinner on-board again). It would be totally awesome! Seriously, if UDOT and the legislature can spend millions of dollars for a new parking garage in Moab because of current congestion, I think they would also be wise to consider building a passenger depot in Moab (freight rail already runs to the west side of the Colorado River) and offer grants to a rail operator to provide this service.

***7) While there is no rail line to Saint George, there is a rail-head in Cedar City, and that is plenty close enough to Zion National Park to begin offering a rail service oriented to the tourists headed for that area.
But now I'm really dreaming, and I'd better log off for the night.

Wait you are talking about a tourist route and you think that the current route or a Wyoming tundra route would be better than a route that connects 11+ of the nation's best ski resorts, a premiere us film featival, and Dinosaur national monument? What?

I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense to me. Colorado has been exploring an I-70 route for years. The Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 services over 6 million passengers a year. I-80 is largely a trucker route. A freight route.

As far as Provo is concerned I'm sorry but I think more international travelers will be wooed by PC than Provo.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by StevenF

Liberty Wellsian, This video goes into technology adoption and then talks about how electric cars can be adopted much quicker than we might think.

• Video Link

I watched the whole video. It is optimistic nonsense. Honestly I want to believe that they are right (my bias and theirs) but I think the sad truth is they aren't. An oil glut in 2023 is the exact opposite of what is going to happen. 2023/2024 is when we really start investing heavily in EVs (partially due to the insane oil prices). It isn't when millions will be in operation. That's 4 years from now. Sales of EVs will be strong but internal combustion momentum, lack of investment in oil production and EVS is going to lead to oil crisis not surplus. We can talk about what people want until we are blue in the face but without adequate investment it means nothing. You can't have what you can't buy.

Further the increasing adoption rates of technology that they are citing are all based around the same technology. Transistors. The exponential improvements in transistor technology just isn't going to happen for other industries such as battery technology. It isn't a matter of more knowledge, more people, or robotic assembly. It is a matter of physics.

If battery technology was physically capable of the same sort of exponential improvement as transistors we would be flying to the moon on a Samsung battery. That of course will not happen. The physics will not allow it. Anyone who tries to extrapolate the adoption or progress in technology within the field that is heavily reliant on transistors and apply assumptions based on that to other technologies is wrong and has a serious misunderstanding of why "technology" progressed so fast in the later half of the 20th century.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

UDOT had bought near the freeway to make way for an I-15 expansion....in Midvale. Are there really plans to widen the freeway in the middle of the Salt Lake Valley AGAIN?

It's a different kind of widening this time. No more haphazardly adding lanes. UDOT is building a parallel collector-distributor system. It's more similar to what is built in Dallas and less similar to Los Angeles.



Here's what's different: While true, the new C/D system does *add* 3 lanes to I-15. But, UDOT will actually remove 2 lanes from the old mainline freeway.

(At full build-out, in a future year) The C/D will have access to local exits in Sandy (126th, 114th, 106th, and 90th), while the mainline will skip the exits and zoom from Bangerter to I-215 without interruption.

[billbillbillbill]

Originally Posted by i-215

Here's what's different: While true, the new C/D system does *add* 3 lanes to I-15. But, UDOT will actually remove 2 lanes from the old mainline freeway.

(At full build-out, in a future year) The C/D will have access to local exits in Sandy (126th, 114th, 106th, and 90th), while the mainline will skip the exits and zoom from Bangerter to I-215 without interruption.

I have been following this and I had no idea they were removing any lanes from the existing freeway. From everything I saw, it was just adding the collector on the outside of the freeway.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by billbillbillbill

I have been following this and I had no idea they were removing any lanes from the existing freeway. From everything I saw, it was just adding the collector on the outside of the freeway.

Reviewing it, I think only 1 lane gets removed north of 90th (and 3 added).

South of 90th, 2 get removed (and 3 added).

[bob rulz]

Regardless it's still adding to the total size and width of the freeway. Maybe more logical from an efficiency/traffic flow standpoint, but it's still adding freeway mass.