Broadway Corridor Updates - Page 40

WarrenC12 · #**781** Posted **Jul 24, 2024, 3:19 AM**

Doesn't seem too impressive for a site like that.

seamusmcduff · #**782** Posted **Jul 24, 2024, 11:52 PM**

Documents for the rezoning of the Jordan's on Broadway are up. Will include an entrance to the subway.

https://www.shapeyourcity.ca/1470-1476-w-broadway

officedweller · #**783** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 1:01 AM**

Thanks!

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...et.pdf#page=47

GenWhy? · #**784** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 6:10 PM**

Additionally, the treatment of the lane at their western property line is interesting. Will be interesting to see I the surface car stalls survive at the southern lane as well. The City typically does a corner cut for road dedication (not to mention sight lines for the parkade entrance).

Also interesting is the lack of sidewalk setback. Maybe I'm missing some details for this area.

officedweller · #**785** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Additionally, the treatment of the lane at their western property line is interesting. Will be interesting to see I the surface car stalls survive at the southern lane as well. The City typically does a corner cut for road dedication (not to mention sight lines for the parkade entrance).

Also interesting is the lack of sidewalk setback. Maybe I'm missing some details for this area.

I figure a couple of those parking spaces might be for transit use.
But good to see loading spaces.
The set back parkade entrance may be better for cars exiting the parkade.

For the sidewalk, would that be because the sidewalk will be widened into the curb lane?

There's at least a partial physical barrier along the alley for the public space.

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...et.pdf#page=47

Vin · #**786** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:09 PM**

Two elements I really love about the above development:
1. The animation of the lane with walkway/retail use improvements. For this to take off, future developments along the entire laneways, including the adjoining one, must be designed in similar fashion.
2. As others brought this one up before: The secondary skytrain access/egress. The City/Translink have finally woken up from the coma dreaming that mass number of pedestrians crossing roads on ground level works well in an urban road intersection or junction.

jollyburger · #**787** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Additionally, the treatment of the lane at their western property line is interesting. Will be interesting to see I the surface car stalls survive at the southern lane as well. The City typically does a corner cut for road dedication (not to mention sight lines for the parkade entrance).

Also interesting is the lack of sidewalk setback. Maybe I'm missing some details for this area.

It seems like they'll extend the sidewalk into the outer lane eventually.

GenWhy? · #**788** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure a couple of those parking spaces might be for transit use.
But good to see loading spaces.
The set back parkade entrance may be better for cars exiting the parkade.

For the sidewalk, would that be because the sidewalk will be widened into the curb lane?

My understanding is that the standard back-of-curb setback for main streets (5.5m) is still required, as it was for 150 West Broadway), which makes this interesting without seeing their Referral Report yet. just seems like an odd thing to leave out as you'd lose a bunch of floor area later on.

Looks like, for 150 West Broadway anyway, that the 5.5 metre setback is in addition to the to-be-determined "Great Street" improvements:

(d) Provision of street improvements along West Broadway adjacent to the site and appropriate transitions, to provide “Great Street” treatment and expanded public realm including the following:
(i) geometric changes, including new curb and gutter, relocation or replacement of the existing catch basins, and road reconstruction to centerline as required to accommodate the new curb and gutter;
(ii) broom finish saw-cut concrete sidewalk;
(iii) curb ramps; and
(iv) public seating.

Note to Applicant: The City will provide a geometric design for these street improvements.

GenWhy? · #**789** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It seems like they'll extend the sidewalk into the outer lane eventually.

I think the lane setback is their "POPS", while the Broadway setback doesn't seem to be present, which is a city-wide standard. Just saying it's odd not to see, without having all the details right now.

GenWhy? · #**790** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Two elements I really love about the above development:
1. The animation of the lane with walkway/retail use improvements. For this to take off, future developments along the entire laneways, including the adjoining one, must be designed in similar fashion.
2. As others brought this one up before: The secondary skytrain access/egress. The City/Translink have finally woken up from the coma dreaming that mass number of pedestrians crossing roads on ground level works well in an urban road intersection or junction.

This POPS might unfortunately might fall flat, as currently designed, as there is no direct retail connection or adjacent activation. The adjacent door is an exit door for the residential, and the spaces next to it are the residential lobby and a parkade ramp.

It'll be interesting to see how the EQ3 building will redevelop, with the adjacent heritage buildings on that same block.

officedweller · #**791** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 8:48 PM**

I just noticed there's a notation "To Future Curb 7.5m"
as well as another line that says "Front Setback" (probably meaning the requirement).

But you are right that they shouldn't be relying on a future project that may not happen.
A narrow sidewalk would be awful here. especially with the station entrance nearby (despite that mini-plaza setback).

BTW - what I thought was an odd L-shaped retail space is the residential lobby, so those tables in the alley are no where near any retail/cafe space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Thanks!

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...et.pdf#page=47

GenWhy? · #**792** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 9:01 PM**

of good catch. I did not expect to see that on the context page.

The roll-out of these sidewalk widenings is going to be very interesting as they just stop of the property line - I hope nothing like Burnaby's bike lanes.

I also am not sure how bus stops and bus "pull over" lanes will work on this block (if the plan is approved before December)

AlessioSBT · #**793** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 9:14 PM**

Honestly i still don't understand why the sidewalks are just randomly left to developers. Like even if 80% of a street is completely redeveloped you still have these random spots with different sizes/dimensions and old setup.

My family is from a small town in europe, a place with barely 50k people and even there they recently redeveloped a street near the waterfront, 4km in total (so not small) and then the businesses on the street have the freedom to propose small changes in the future but that's it.
It has a very wide sidewalk, a separated bike lane, trees, amenities and everything.

How is it possibile that a small town can pay and develop a 4km "great street" just with the city budget and in a big north-american city with millions of people they literally can't build a sidewalk by themself?

Migrant_Coconut · #**794** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 9:20 PM**

"Socialism bad." That's why.

GenWhy? · #**795** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 9:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

"Socialism bad." That's why.

An alternative is to re-jig the system so that the off-sites (sidewalk and road upgrades) are done by the City. Developers already pay a deposit that the City holds until these are completed. It's my understanding that private developers do this work themselves is because it's typically much cheaper. If a developer doesn't complete the work the City is legally responsible to complete the works and eat the deposit. Not sure what happens when the deposit doesn't cover the upgrade and repairs.

officedweller · #**796** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 10:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

An alternative is to re-jig the system so that the off-sites (sidewalk and road upgrades) are done by the City. Developers already pay a deposit that the City holds until these are completed. It's my understanding that private developers do this work themselves is because it's typically much cheaper. If a developer doesn't complete the work the City is legally responsible to complete the works and eat the deposit. Not sure what happens when the deposit doesn't cover the upgrade and repairs.

Sometimes the quality of the sidewalk work is sketchy when the developer does it
- like at the Vancouver Centre II driveway or at the Deloitte Summit entrance steps.

GenWhy? · #**797** Posted **Jul 25, 2024, 11:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Sometimes the quality of the sidewalk work is sketchy when the developer does it
- like at the Vancouver Centre II driveway or at the Deloitte Summit entrance steps.

On public property would be the case of a City inspector and there is a decent warranty period as well that a developer would be on the hook for. For the works on the private property (on my projects anyway) someone from the City just comes down making sure we followed the original design. Quality control is on us.

Ideally the City uses taxes and does it in phases (like every other city) or the take funds from the developer and build large cohesive chunks at a time.

Looks like we'll get neither, unfortunately.

For instance 1477 Granville will have 4 metre wide sidewalks, so that might be the widest we'll see right at the intersections. I also imagine the plan is to close the alley to the west of 1476 W Broadway.

seamusmcduff · #**798** Posted **Jul 26, 2024, 1:14 AM**

This seems to be something that seems to be unique to BC, or at least the lowest mainland. I know edmonton and calgary will replace entire neighborhoods sidewalks and roads when they need to be done, independent of development. They will also build any new parts of the road cross section such as bike lanes if those are planned. For bigger city wide projects, they will rebuild dozens of blocks in order to construct a new planned bike lane. It's standard practice that these items are paid for from the general budget and not from DCCs.

I don't know if that ever happens here other than like main streets like in gas town and Granville, and I hate how so many planned bike lanes just start and stop all over the place and make them functionally useless since no block ever seems to get completely redeveloped.

idunno · #**799** Posted **Jul 26, 2024, 4:22 PM**

Yeah I remember seeing those "neighbourhood renewal" projects in Edmonton. The program seems like such a significant annual investment for upgrading all types of aging infrastructure in the city. Meanwhile in Vancouver, it takes 8 years to rebuild a half-block plaza in the West End and its scope gets trimmed due to lower-than-expected CACs.

Full disclosure - I'm very uninformed about relative capital budgets between cities, but I'm curious. Do we just have a much lower industrial tax base and therefore budget? Is it the sewer/water main replacement projects that eat up most of our infrastructure renewal money?

jollyburger · #**800** Posted **Jul 26, 2024, 4:34 PM**

Alley activations are good for somewhat secluded spots but if it's actively used by delivery & garbage trucks I think they will quickly lose their charm.