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  #781  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2014, 4:40 PM
StoOgE StoOgE is offline
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Closing the Viaduct seems like it would be pretty bad for traffic and force most street traffic further East.

Doubt they could dive underground there because of all of the train platforms.
     
     
  #782  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2014, 4:21 AM
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Didn't make it out to "summer streets" this year, but I really do hope they find a way to close off the Park Avenue viaduct, at least on the western half, to traffic permanently. It could be a new park along the lines of the High Line, yet in a more dense area of skyscrapers. Then, along with the observation deck above, we'd have a space below to take in the busy cityscape.




http://commercialobserver.com/2014/0...tral-landlord/





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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoOgE View Post
Closing the Viaduct seems like it would be pretty bad for traffic and force most street traffic further East.

Doubt they could dive underground there because of all of the train platforms.

Oh, it could work. Park Avenue is unlike Manhattan's other avenues, in that traffic is both ways. The city has already been moving towards closing some streets to traffic, reducing the lanes on others. They will study the impact before making such a move of course, but it can be done.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...ubway-unveiled

$210M upgrade for Grand Central's subway unveiled





ANDREW J. HAWKINS
SEPTEMBER 8, 2014


Quote:
Three new staircases to the subway platforms, two new street-level entrances and a refurbished mezzanine level, including the opening up a series of enclosed spaces to create new hallways, plus a 4,000-square-foot ground-level "waiting area" for commuters: All that and more is being promised by developer SL Green as part of its planned five-year, $210 million effort to give Grand Central's subway station a significant upgrade.

What's more, all of that must be completed before tenants will be allowed to occupy the developer's new 1 Vanderbilt, the 65-story office tower planned for an entire city block just west of Grand Central, north of East 42nd Street. The transit improvements were hammered out with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the de Blasio administration earlier this year as the first piece in the massive midtown east rezoning project.

SL Green gave reporters a tour of the existing subway station Monday as a way to highlight the improvements the developer plans to begin making as soon as the city signs off on the project. Before that can happen, the plan for the developer's new spire must go through the city's labyrinthine land-use process, or ULURP, which will last from September 2014 to March 2015.

Demolition of buildings on the tower's site will last until the second quarter of 2016, and excavations and the laying of the foundation is expected to end by 2017.

The most significant changes will be made to the Lexington Avenue line station, which currently sees an average of 154,000 riders per day and is the second-busiest station in the system. New staircases will be added to the northbound and southbound ends of the 4/5/6 platform, bringing the total number of mezzanine-to-platform staircases to five. In addition, all the staircases will be narrowed, as will the columns adjacent to the staircases, to allow an easier pedestrian traffic flow from end to end of the platform. New turnstiles and a raised platform will be added to the north end of the mezzanine that will connect to the street-level staircases.

The hope is that with the improvements, the MTA will be able to run at least one additional train along the Lexington Avenue line per hour, or an average of 1,100 additional riders, to relieve congestion.

Complicating the process is the fact that the Lexington Avenue subway mezzanine is directly below the Hyatt Hotel, forcing the developers to incorporate the existing building columns into their designs. As such, spaces that are currently enclosed on the mezzanine between the columns will be opened up to improve circulation.

SL Green also plans to create a transit hall to link Grand Central Terminal to the planned Long Island Rail Road station that is currently under construction below and to the northwest of the station as part of the $10 billion East Side Access project. It will also improve existing transit connections to Metro-North and the shuttle to Times Square.

The centerpiece of SL Green's transit improvements will be the 4,000-square-foot waiting area for commuters that will make up the northeast corner of 1 Vanderbilt. That space will include a "living wall" adorned with hanging plants and a large display board with arrival and departure information. The board could include both LIRR and Metro-North timetables, though that has yet to be decided, said SL Green Managing Director Robert Schiffer.

Outside on the street level, the block of Vanderbilt between East 42nd and East 43rd streets will be closed permanently to traffic. The Department of Transportation will be in charge of installing a public plaza, but SL Green already has a few design ideas to submit.

After the land-use review process is over, SL Green plans to begin construction on both 1 Vanderbilt and the transit improvements concurrently.

But the bottom line for the developer is that everything will need to be completed—all the staircases, hallways, new turnstiles and mezzanine improvements—before any tenants will be allowed to occupy their new building in January 2020, the expected completion date.

"We're responsible for cost overruns, we're responsible for construction oversight," Mr. Schiffer said. "It's our project to build, not the MTA's."
The rest of the midtown east rezoning, which was shelved last year when Bloomberg administration officials could not get midtown Councilman Daniel Garodnick to sign on, won’t kick off until at least the spring of 2015, and will likely extend into the following year. Mr. de Blasio tapped Mr. Garodnick and Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer to oversee a lengthy community review process before the mayor unveils a plan for the 70-block rezoning.
In a statement, Deputy Mayor Alicia Glen described the administration's position on the plans.

“We believe smart planning isn’t just about buildings, but about the infrastructure investments and services we need to support growth," she said. "Our vision for east midtown puts transit first, and the changes coming to the Vanderbilt corridor exemplify that approach. Before the first office worker walks through the doors of this new building, we will have in place improvements to subway platforms, concourses and entrances that will increase capacity at Grand Central and make life easier for thousands of commuters. This is the kind of smart growth we intend to pursue across the city.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1932663






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  #783  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2014, 5:27 AM
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Before the first office worker walks through the doors of this new building, we will have in place improvements to subway platforms, concourses and entrances that will increase capacity at Grand Central and make life easier for thousands of commuters.
Right, because 1 additional train and a few exits will make all the difference?

NEWS FLASH: The 4,5,6 lines have been bursting at seams a long time ago.
     
     
  #784  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
Right, because 1 additional train and a few exits will
Yes, they will make a difference. One train can carry 1,500 passengers. Four new exits can move thousands in a short period of time.

The main problem with congestion on the Lexington Ave. line is extreme overcrowding on the platforms, due to insufficient ingress/egress. Getting people off the platforms faster will make a difference.
     
     
  #785  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2014, 11:05 PM
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Yes, it's an improvement. NO amount of improvements is going to make the subway lines uncrowded. The goal is improvement.


Quote:
The hope is that with the improvements, the MTA will be able to run at least one additional train along the Lexington Avenue line per hour, or an average of 1,100 additional riders, to relieve congestion.

Obviously, to the naked eye, trains will still be crowded. It's New York City.
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  #786  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2014, 3:43 PM
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True, it will help somewhat on the subway platform/mezzanine but unless the other stations with one exit per platform get renovated, I won't hold me breath to see that additional train. Don't get me wrong, this is helpful but what about the other stations that get jammed or face bottlenecks frequently?? That's part of the problem too.

Also the 2nd avenue subway would help alleviate congestion if it is extended to East Midtown. Why don't they talk about that? I mean with our muscle-car loving governor, don't expect money thrown for mass transit within the next 5 years. Funding could come from the buildings (instead)...
     
     
  #787  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2014, 4:26 PM
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The title should be changed to Approved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYDalilyNews

The area around Grand Central may get a lot grander.

Landlord SL Green unveiled its vision Monday for $210 million in transit improvements it is required to make as part of a deal to build a 65-story tower at the corner of Vanderbilt Ave. and 42nd St.

The One Vanderbilt proposal includes a towering glass atrium containing a wall of lush vegetation, new staircases to the station's difficult-to-find subway platforms, an expanded and refurbished mezzanine level, a new waiting room for commuters, and a connection to the long-delayed Long Island Rail Road’s East Side terminus.

One Vanderbilt would transform the area around Grand Central
SL GREEN
One Vanderbilt would transform the area around Grand Central
"Midtown, the city and the region as a whole stand to gain from the substantial investments in the public transit," said Fred Cerullo, president of the Grand Central Partnership.

But the city isn't taking any chances. In exchange for permission to build such a mammoth tower, the city will require that all transit improvements — barring unforseen MTA-related delays — are completed before the developer can open its doors to tenants.

The improvements to Grand Central would be many under the new planThe improvements to Grand Central would be many under the new planPreviousNextGrand Central improvements Grand Central improvements Grand Central improvements Grand Central improvements Enlarge
SL GREEN
SL Green wants to complete the building — which will occupy the entire block bounded by Vanderbilt Ave., 42nd St., Madison Ave. and 43rd St. — and the new infrastructure by 2021.

The necessary zoning change is expected to be approved in the spring.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1932663
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  #788  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2014, 4:27 PM
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The title should be changed to Approved?
There is quite a bit more work to be done before this project is approved.
     
     
  #789  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2014, 8:11 PM
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There is no such designation as "approved" in the NYC zoning context.
     
     
  #790  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2014, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There is no such designation as "approved" in the NYC zoning context.
I'm assuming he means being approved via the approvals process, aka ULURP. It very much needs to be approved. On the other hand, there is no "approved" designation on this forum. Everything is a proposal until state of construction, whether it has "official" approval or not.


Brief overlook...


Quote:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/ap/step5_ulurp.shtml

Filing of Application
Upon filing, copies of all applications and accompanying material are sent to the affected Borough President, Community Board and the City Council within five business days of receipt.

Certification.
DCP is responsible for certifying that the application is complete, and ready for public review through the ULURP process.

Community Board Review
Within sixty (60) days of receiving the certified application, the Community Board is required to hold a public hearing and adopt and submit a written recommendation to CPC, the applicant, the Borough President and when appropriate, the Borough Board.

Borough President Review
Within thirty (30) days of receipt of a Community Board recommendation, or if the Community Board fails to act, within thirty (30) days of the expiration of the Community Board's review period, the Borough President shall submit a written recommendation to the City Planning Commission.

City Planning Commission Review
CPC must hold a public hearing and approve, approve with modifications or disapprove the application within 60 days of the expiration of the Borough President's review period.

City Council Review
The City Council does not automatically review all ULURP actions that are approved by CPC. The Charter requires the Council to review certain actions, some only under special circumstances, and makes provision for the Council to elect to review other actions.

The City Council automatically reviews (Mandatory Review):

-zoning map changes;
-zoning text changes (not subject to ULURP but subject to Charter section 200 and 201);
-housing and urban renewal plans;
-disposition of residential buildings, except to non-profit companies for low-income housing

Mayoral Review
Mayoral approval is not required. A decision by the City Council to approve or disapprove a land use application is considered to be final unless the Mayor elects to veto a Council action within 5 days of the vote. The Council, by a 2/3 vote, can override a Mayor's veto of its decision within 10 days of the veto.

Basically, City Planning holds approval (with recommendations from the community board and borough president), followed in many cases by City Council approval. Since most skyscraper proposals in ULURP have to do with zoning changes, they usually go to the City Council after City Planning approval. In some cases, the council will send it back to planning for modifications. An example of this was during the rezoning of the Hudson Yards. There were going to be four towers of unlimited size, but the council decided more controls were needed.

During the final push for the Midtown East rezoning, it was neither approved nor disapproved. The City simply withdrew the application because Bloomberg didn't think there was enough support in the council at the time.

So what's happening now is that in order to move forward with a large development that is ready to happen (1 Vanderbilt), just four of the blocks from the earlier rezoning are entering the approvals process. The rest of the overall plan will follow sometime next year.
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  #791  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 3:10 PM
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http://online.wsj.com/articles/resid...lan-1410484574

Residents Try to Get Details on New Midtown East Plan
Developer SL Green Pledges to Give Data in Response to Community Outcry



By LAURA KUSISTO
Sept. 11, 2014


Quote:
SL Green Realty Corp. made much of the $210 million it said it would spend on improvements to Grand Central Terminal in exchange for clearance to build a 65-story office tower, but the developer raised residents' ire this week when it wouldn't disclose more details.

After a heated meeting of the Midtown community board on Tuesday, SL Green on Thursday said it would release a breakdown of how it arrived at the figure when the project's public-review process begins in the next month.

Board members repeatedly asked SL Green officials to show how they had tallied individual improvements to reach the $210 million figure, according to two people who were present.

At one point, Stephen Lefkowitz, an attorney for SL Green, told those at the meeting that the improvements were about quality rather than quantity, according to the two people.

An SL Green spokesman on Thursday said focusing on the cost of each item missed the broader value to the public of the package of improvements. The developer and city officials have pointed out that the developer will be responsible for cost overruns, meaning the tab could climb above $210 million.

"We are proud to make an unprecedented investment in the public realm in and around Grand Central, and responsive to the community board's request this week, we will provide a breakdown of all of the public improvements as part of the upcoming formal public review process," said Robert Schiffer, managing director of SL Green.

The debate raises larger questions given that SL Green's development is expected to set the standard for how the city extracts improvements from other developers who may want to build in the area around Grand Central.

"Only full disclosure will allow us to appropriately evaluate the public benefit, which is our charge under [the approval process]. We are fully confident that SL Green will provide us what we need," said Lola Finkelstein, head of a community task force on the city's plans for Midtown East.

The developer had advertised its $210 million figure Monday at an event for reporters, when it described staircases and other amenities it would build for Grand Central.

A representative for Argent Ventures, a real-estate company that owns 1.3 million square feet of air rights above Grand Central Terminal, also attended the community board meeting this week. The company has emerged as a vocal opponent of the rezoning that SL Green seeks to build its tower—which could significantly devalue Argent's air rights.

SL Green "tried to pull a fast one on taxpayers," an Argent spokesman said. "Fortunately, the community board called them on it."

A spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority declined to comment.

City Councilman Daniel Garodnick, who represents the area, said that it was more important to focus on the value of the improvements to the public, not the cost.

"How do you measure the value of the improvements relative to the request for added density? That's what we have to figure out, and whatever we do figure out, whatever we do, is going to be a precedent setter," he said.



http://nypost.com/2014/09/08/a-sneak...-public-space/

A sneak peek at One Vanderbilt’s Grand Central plan

By Steve Cuozzo
September 8, 2014


Quote:
We joined a jolly troupe of journos Monday on a “tour” of SL Green’s proposed $200 million in improvements to Grand Central Terminal’s pedestrian flow — a prerequisite to the developer’s One Vanderbilt, a 65-story, 1.6 million square-foot office skyscraper immediately west of the terminal.

It’s hard to run a tour of things not yet built. But officials of SL Green and the MTA did their best to enlighten us amidst the station’s cacophony of train horns, shouting passengers and live musical performances.

In a way, the tumult was part of the lesson.

The great terminal and its myriad subway entrances and corridors are a zoo to navigate — and likely to worsen when the MTA’s behind-schedule East Side Access project brings 65,000 more riders into the station by 2023.

But the crush will be significantly remedied by oodles of planned new corridors, stair-widenings, wall-removals and underground connections to One Vanderbilt next door.To build One Vanderbilt, gloomy old office buildings on the block between Madison and Vanderbilt avenues and 42nd and 43rd streets will be demolished. The new tower designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox will boast a lobby-level, 40-foot high, glass-wrapped waiting room for train and subway riders at its northeast corner.

The transit/pedestrian transformation also calls for reopening a long-shuttered “Mobil passageway” to the former Mobil building on 42nd Street; installation of escalators from the S-line shuttle platform directly to the street; and dedicated links to East Side Access, which will bring the LIRR into Grand Central for the first time.


Exactly how the subway-level changes will look has yet to be decided, but SL Green Managing Director Robert Schiffer laughed at one stop on the walk-through, “You can be sure that when we tear these old tiles up, we will not be putting them back.”

The upgrades are central to the proposal for One Vanderbilt, which requires a zoning change and is to enter the city’s six-month Uniform Land Use Review Procedure later this month.

The project represents something new in city-private developer negotiations over complicated commercial projects. Unlike many others, One Vanderbilt will receive no public subsidies.

On the contrary, SL Green agreed to foot the entire, estimated $200 million bill for the transit/pedestrian amenities, and to finish them before any tenants may occupy the new skyscraper.


http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/0..._landmarks.php











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Last edited by NYguy; Sep 12, 2014 at 3:31 PM.
     
     
  #792  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 5:59 PM
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I'm sorry, but this project is just awesome. Talking about blending history with the ultra-modern.
     
     
  #793  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2014, 12:27 AM
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Quote:

Maybe FOX did play with a potential move here...



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...hattan-hq.html

Fox Is Said to Explore Move From Midtown Manhattan HQ


By Anousha Sakoui
Sep 12, 2014


Quote:
21st Century Fox (FOXA) Inc., Rupert Murdoch’s entertainment company, is exploring a possible move from the New York headquarters it shares with News Corp., according to people familiar with the situation.

James Murdoch, co-chief operating officer and John Nallen, chief financial officer, are leading a review of Fox’s needs, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because no decisions have been made. The initiative is at an early stage and the company may decide to stay at its current midtown Manhattan location, the person said. Fox plans to stay in New York, the people said.

A move could take the separation of Murdoch’s two media companies a step further. Fox, the owner of Fox News, FX and a broadcast network, along with a Hollywood film and TV studio, stayed at 1211 Avenue of the Americas after the split last year. News Corp. and its two main publications, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Post, are also housed there.

...The current lease expires in 2020, according to Beacon’s website. The people didn’t say whether News Corp. is also considering a move.

This project is scheduled to be completed around 2020. I still think TD Bank will be the tenant here. Looks like FOX will want some ground floor studio space for broadcasting.
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  #794  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 7:17 PM
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http://commercialobserver.com/2014/0...al-air-rights/

Argent, SL Green Trade Barbs Over Grand Central Air Rights

By Tobias Salinger
9/15/14


Quote:
The dispute over Midtown East rezoning between Grand Central Terminal landlord Argent Ventures and 1 Vanderbilt developer SL Green Realty Corp. spilled over into the panel circuit this morning at the annual September conference of the Appraisal Institute.

Shortly after SL Green managing director Robert Schiffer detailed roughly $210 million in infrastructure improvements for the 1.6-million-square foot tower slated for Vanderbilt Avenue and East 42nd Street–upgrades like new stairways to the terminal and an enclosed public space, in addition to building setbacks on the 65-story tower allowing new open viewing lines for the terminal–Argent director of development Eric Anderson reiterated the company’s opposition to potential city bonuses giving SL Green the right to construct the new tower without buying any of Argent’s 1.3 million square feet of transferable development rights at Grand Central.

“It’s $322 million in value,” Mr. Anderson said, using a $600-per-square-foot figure for air rights he attributed to an appraiser’s pending study of the terminal’s air rights in pricing the additional 537,000 square feet of space the zoning proposal for the tower authorizes. “SL Green has said they’ll be providing $210 million. That means a $112 million profit on day one. That’s not a very good deal for the city.”

The appraisal of the terminal’s air rights represents a new figure that’s 44 percent higher than the $415-per-square-foot value that appraisers set for Grand Central’s air during last year’s failed rezoning of Midtown East, Mr. Anderson said. Representatives for Argent have characterized SL Green’s planned 4,000-square-foot transit hall at the foot of the planned development as a “lobby in a billion-dollar tower,” but Mr. Schiffer of SL Green said 1 Vanderbilt is a “great example of transit-oriented design” while company representatives said Argent’s figures relate to residential rather than commercial development.

“Citing residential condos as a comparison to One Vanderbilt, a commercial office building, is utterly irrelevant and entirely self-serving,” said a spokeswoman for SL Green in an email, referencing Argent president Andrew Penson. “This so-called ‘appraisal’ is just another desperate attempt to drive unprecedented funding for transit improvements away from the public and into Andrew Penson’s pockets.”


In addition to the art and flora-filled public hall, the potential new 1,350-foot skyscraper will create a new entrance to the terminal on East 42nd Street, a new below-grade corridor, and a public plaza on Vanderbilt Avenue between East 42nd and East 43rd Streets, officials with SL Green say.

But the public improvements package that officials at the company have pledged to outline in detailed cost assessments for Manhattan’s Community Board 5 as part of its pending zoning application under the city’s Uniform Land Use Review Procedure have gained support from transit advocates at the Straphangers Campaign of the New York Public Interest Research Group, as well as the Association for a Better New York, the Grand Central Partnership and the New York Building Congress.

“One Vanderbilt is exactly the kind of new office development New York City needs,” said Richard Anderson, president of the building congress, in a prepared statement. “This modern office tower will reinvigorate East Midtown’s aging building stock and create expansive new public infrastructure to tap into the MTA’s brand new East Side Aces LIRR connection.”

But the proposal has yet to be certified by the Department of City Planning ahead of the planned 7-month approval process for the five blocks bordering Grand Central along Vanderbilt Avenue that the city carved out of the earlier 73-block proposal that the City Council tabled last year. The public needs more details early in the process on the rezoning, which will set a precedent for the street and the neighborhood, said Michael Kwartler, FAIA, a former City Planning official and founding director of the Environmental Simulation Center.

“The unfortunate part of it is that Manhattan is filled with some of the best lawyers in the country,” Mr. Kwartler said during the panel discussion. “We may be looking at litigation hell here.”


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  #795  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 9:08 PM
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It was a 6 month process but 7 now?
     
     
  #796  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2014, 3:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
It was a 6 month process but 7 now?
It's always been "roughly" that, for as long as I can remember. But de Blasio has sped up the pre-certification phase.


http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...proval-process

City speeding up building-approval process
In a move that officials hope will lower building costs and spur development of more affordable units, city planners have dropped their long-running requirement that projects meet every demand before beginning the public-review process.


June 11, 2014

Quote:
To the delight of developers and others, the de Blasio administration has quietly eased a Bloomberg-era practice that delayed major projects, frustrated those seeking zoning changes to build them, and drove up building costs.

No longer will project applications have to be letter-perfect in the eyes of the Department of City Planning before starting the 7-month public review process known as ULURP, according to Carl Weisbrod, who heads the agency and chairs the City Planning Commission.

"Very often City Planning would not allow a project to be certified until the department liked it," said Mr. Weisbrod, referring to the agency when it was run by Amanda Burden, whom he did not mention by name. "We should follow the [City] Charter," which says applications shall be certified when they are complete.

Asked when the new policy would begin, Mr. Weisbrod told the Crain’s editorial board last week, "We’ve started."

It is unlikely, however, that developers will push for certification of applications that are technically complete but have problems that Mr. Weisbrod warns could lead to rejection. Veterans of the process said it would be foolish to start ULURP’s clock before City Planning Commission sign-off was virtually assured because the strict schedule provides little time to make changes. The first two stages of the review—opinions by the local community board and borough president—are advisory, but the commission can kill a project before it even gets to a City Council vote.

The planning agency, however, is making other changes to shorten the time needed to get to certification, such as adding staff, establishing clearer standards and expectations, and creating metrics to track how fast the agency moves projects along. City Planning also plans to accept applications online at some point.

...The mayor essentially controls the City Planning Commission because he appoints its chairman and a majority of its members. During the tenure of Ms. Burden, who had virtually free rein as the Bloomberg administration’s planning czar from 2002 through 2013, developers often complained that she held up projects over what they considered minor aspects such as landscaping details and the tint of window glass. Rarely did projects get certified within a year and sometimes it took three.

"I must say, she had great taste—she would say things that would aesthetically improve a project from a public point of view, but it took an enormous amount of time," Mr. Geto said. "Every time she said ‘change the color of the bricks on the eastern side of the building,’ it would cost a tremendous amount of time and money." Developers sometimes went so far as to replace the architects on their projects to please Ms. Burden, something they will not likely have to do with Mr. Weisbrod in charge.

That's why it was important that SL Green and the city came to an agreement on what this development would entail.

And we know what Amanda Burden did with the Tower Verre. Bloomberg's original plan for the midtown east rezoning included a "design test" that de Blasio's planning likely won't include.
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  #797  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 12:16 PM
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Last edited by JayPro; Sep 19, 2014 at 12:59 PM.
     
     
  #798  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 2:39 PM
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Ehh...I ALMOST like this design, but the top portion just seems a bit clunky for me
     
     
  #799  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 6:50 PM
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Agreed. That last setback just seems far too abrupt horizontally. I don't mind the first couple of setbacks, but the last one just goes too far in compared to the ones below it.
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Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 6:55 PM
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Agreed. Its a little bit on the heavy set.
     
     
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