[Halifax] Citadel Halifax Redevelopment | 3X49 m | 18-16-16 fl | Completed

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I love projects like that! I can't ever see a time where a new building would be built from stone and wood again due to the cost of construction and materials, so it's kind of neat to think that here's a chance to live in or use a "new" building that was constructed in such a fashion.

Well the school project I showed is something that could have been the consideration for the St. Patrick's School site (something along the same lines) and then residential on the vacant portion.

I'm not sure what the state of the Library is; but if it is in poor state of repair - then if a community centre was thought of for St. Patrick's then that's part of the repurposing. Of course that's totally assuming what the outcome of the whole SPS process would be after all the law suits are done haha. That's another topic for another thread.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well the school project I showed is something that could have been the consideration for the St. Patrick's School site (something along the same lines) and then residential on the vacant portion.

I'm not sure what the state of the Library is; but if it is in poor state of repair - then if a community centre was thought of for St. Patrick's then that's part of the repurposing. Of course that's totally assuming what the outcome of the whole SPS process would be after all the law suits are done haha. That's another topic for another thread.

The court appeal for the SPS is set to be decided next month

[Drybrain]

That would be great to see happen to the Victorian portion of the St. Pat's school, but their seems to be a contingent intent upon demolishing it.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

One of my favorites is the repurposing of King Edward school into an arts incubator building with low density and multi-residential development with it. It was a former sandstone school - the land use has been approved as has the development permit - it just needs to have some civic works deposits paid and then they are good to go.


Source: Google Images Search


Source: Google Images Search (via Avenue Magazine website)

Adaptive re-use is helpful to a point. I want to point out how this particular example (the picture posted) suggests the re-use is for a building far outside the downtown core where, in the distance, there is some intense density skyrise developments.

We don't have that kind of intense density, so I don't think we can afford too much low-density two-story residential in our downtown core. We need to significantly up the density factor.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

That would be great to see happen to the Victorian portion of the St. Pat's school, but their seems to be a contingent intent upon demolishing it.

Not sure I agree, Dry.

See my post above.

I think that land is waaaaay too central and too valuable for some low-density re-use.

We're talking right on Quinpool Rd! These are the lands we need high density residential. Highrise, skyrise, whatever. Let's grow this community.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well the school project I showed is something that could have been the consideration for the St. Patrick's School site (something along the same lines) and then residential on the vacant portion.

I'm not sure what the state of the Library is; but if it is in poor state of repair - then if a community centre was thought of for St. Patrick's then that's part of the repurposing. Of course that's totally assuming what the outcome of the whole SPS process would be after all the law suits are done haha. That's another topic for another thread.

Again, don't agree. That land is too central and too valuable. We need an intense high density development there. If that incorporates the old school, and a public component. Great! Both we need 20+ storeys there. We need to stop settling for mediocre around here.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Not sure I agree, Dry.

See my post above.

I think that land is waaaaay too central and too valuable for some low-density re-use.

We're talking right on Quinpool Rd! These are the lands we need high density residential. Highrise, skyrise, whatever. Let's grow this community.

It's kind of confusing but I think you're talking about 2 different sites here. St. Patrick's High School (defunct) is on Quinpool Road and seems to be abandoned but there haven't been any RFPs for the site (as far as I'm aware) and definitely no proposals. The building is mostly Art Deco architecturally and does not have any Victorian parts.

St. Pat's-Alexandra is on Brunswick Street and is the one that is currently tied up in legal battles. I have mixed feelings about what I'd like for that site, but I don't see this as the kind of site where it's like "if we don't build a tower here we will fail as a city". That neighbourhood is actually quite dense already (as is Quinpool) and I'm not convinced that adaptive reuse of either building (or parts of them) would be a bad thing - I'm more concerned about the fact that the buildings are both quite old and energy inefficient (and therefore costly to operate and maintain). Consider that ANY use of either building would be effectively increasing density because right now both buildings are being used for nothing.

As has been mentioned various times, you don't necessarily need to build towers to build dense. Many parts of the Halifax Peninsula (and even Clayton Park) are more densely populated than 95% of Edmonton or Calgary. I'm not against building towers, but I also think it's oversimplifying things to say that we "need" towers to curb suburban sprawl etc. What we need is actually a much more nuanced approach than that.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Again, don't agree. That land is too central and too valuable. We need an intense high density development there. If that incorporates the old school, and a public component. Great! Both we need 20+ storeys there. We need to stop settling for mediocre around here.

Actually I probably mis-typed. While the project in Calgary had low density with it (because of the adjacent context) I agree - doing that in an inner city/downtown context would not be a good idea. I probably got ahead of my thought process; so yes for St. Patrick's a 15+ storey high density tower would likely be more likely.

My point was to show that adaptive reuse is possible - that's the key. The 'extra bits' on the site will fall in depending on the economics and adjacent site context. Sorry if there was some confusion. I guess I need to have my coffee earlier in the day!

[someone123]

Imagine Bloomfield is another similar project that is farther along, although I don't know how close they are to starting construction: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/BCMP/

The Bloomfield plan calls for a mix of midrise (10 storey) and lowrise buildings plus adaptive reuse of some of the existing structures.

Here's a site model: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/documents/BloomfieldProject--Form.pdf

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by someone123

Imagine Bloomfield is another similar project that is farther along, although I don't know how close they are to starting construction: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/BCMP/

The Bloomfield plan calls for a mix of midrise (10 storey) and lowrise buildings plus adaptive reuse of some of the existing structures.

Here's a site model: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/documents/BloomfieldProject--Form.pdf

construction is supposed to start this year http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1151047-province-invests-in-new-100m-halifax-housing-project

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by someone123

Imagine Bloomfield is another similar project that is farther along, although I don't know how close they are to starting construction: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/BCMP/

The Bloomfield plan calls for a mix of midrise (10 storey) and lowrise buildings plus adaptive reuse of some of the existing structures.

Here's a site model: http://www.halifax.ca/RealPropertyPlanning/documents/BloomfieldProject--Form.pdf

Isn't this the one that the NDP basically screwed up with its big money bid, that won them the project even though they had the crappiest proposal?

The Liberals should pull the plug and HRM award the contract to Lawen. He had the best proposal by far. That Provincial Government money could be better spent on investing in infrastructure, etc, in the City.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Hali87

It's kind of confusing but I think you're talking about 2 different sites here. St. Patrick's High School (defunct) is on Quinpool Road and seems to be abandoned but there haven't been any RFPs for the site (as far as I'm aware) and definitely no proposals. The building is mostly Art Deco architecturally and does not have any Victorian parts.

St. Pat's-Alexandra is on Brunswick Street and is the one that is currently tied up in legal battles. I have mixed feelings about what I'd like for that site, but I don't see this as the kind of site where it's like "if we don't build a tower here we will fail as a city". That neighbourhood is actually quite dense already (as is Quinpool) and I'm not convinced that adaptive reuse of either building (or parts of them) would be a bad thing - I'm more concerned about the fact that the buildings are both quite old and energy inefficient (and therefore costly to operate and maintain). Consider that ANY use of either building would be effectively increasing density because right now both buildings are being used for nothing.

As has been mentioned various times, you don't necessarily need to build towers to build dense. Many parts of the Halifax Peninsula (and even Clayton Park) are more densely populated than 95% of Edmonton or Calgary. I'm not against building towers, but I also think it's oversimplifying things to say that we "need" towers to curb suburban sprawl etc. What we need is actually a much more nuanced approach than that.

yeah, I was thinking the St. Pat's on Quinpool and my comments apply more strongly there than at the other site, just due to location.

That said, I hear this a lot on here-- you don't have to build high to build dense. that is true, to a point. bBt to build dense then you need to... build dense. And in Halifax, we still don't. We have battles over 5 storey low density proposals in these areas as much as we battle over 15 storeys in the downtown core. There are a LOT of houses in those "dense" areas that are actually density killers; big single-unit low density households-- maybe some grandparents or boomers living in an empty nest.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Isn't this the one that the NDP basically screwed up with its big money bid, that won them the project even though they had the crappiest proposal?

That's the one. I figured they wanted to build new offices for Big Mo and Megan Leslie.

The Liberals should pull the plug and HRM award the contract to Lawen. He had the best proposal by far. That Provincial Government money could be better spent on investing in infrastructure, etc, in the City.

The Libs have been surprisingly passive so far in reversing many of the NDP's more questionable moves. This one would be a no-brainer given the absurd overreach the NDP committed in rigging this bid with govt money that we do not have.

[Drybrain]

To clarify: Yeah, I meant the school one on Brunswick. Quinpool is ideal for a tower (I'd love a tower on the site with the auditorium retained in the rear as a central performance venue for the city).

Regarding Brunswick, I'd rather see the towers go up on sites that aren't already well-built with quality historic buildings. Best of all worlds. (And in any case, the school on Brunswick could be redeveloped with both the older part preserved, and a tower built where the 70s portion sits.)

There are also other creative re-uses like Bloomfield. There's a non-profit in Toronto called Artscape that have also turned a surplus school near Trinity Bellwoods into an arts centre for kids. That'd be another option.

It's great to see cities like Toronto and Calgary moving forward with adaptive re-use of surplus public buildings as youth centres and arts incubators all that, and it really makes me want to see Halifax follow suit with Bloomfield, the re-use of the Memorial Library as a Mi'kmaq assembly (hopefully), and other similar projects.

[mcmcclassic]

I don't know if its been mentioned on here but occupancy for the apartment (19Twenty) is going to be done in phases: Floors 3-6 will be leasing for July 1st, floors 7-11 on August 1st, and floors 12-18 on Sept. 1st.

Also its been confirmed a Starbucks will be somewhere either in the apartment building, hotel next door, or in that new re-development across the street. An urban format grocery store is also a strong possibility apparently too.

Source: I toured 19Twenty today and learned all this.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by mcmcclassic

I don't know if its been mentioned on here but occupancy for the apartment (19Twenty) is going to be done in phases: Floors 3-6 will be leasing for July 1st, floors 7-11 on August 1st, and floors 12-18 on Sept. 1st.

Also its been confirmed a Starbucks will be somewhere either in the apartment building, hotel next door, or in that new re-development across the street. An urban format grocery store is also a strong possibility apparently too.

Source: I toured 19Twenty today and learned all this.

By "done" what do you mean? As in, floors 7-11 will be leased as of August 1st? Meaning, they'll be showing them in June/July, etc?

VERY AWESOME news, both about the urban format grocery store and Starbucks!

[mcmcclassic]

I meant that they will have occupants starting in those months. They already have model suites set up and are taking applications.

[Dmajackson]

Not excited for Starbucks but a urban format grocery store along Brunswick Street would be awesome!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Not excited for Starbucks but a urban format grocery store along Brunswick Street would be awesome!

But didn't Sobeys just announce one for the corner of Abermarle and Duke as part of the redevelopment of that part of Scotia Square?

I can't see a market for 2 urban grocers so close to each other.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Not excited for Starbucks but a urban format grocery store along Brunswick Street would be awesome!

Starbucks, love it or hate it, is like the urban canary.

If it appears in your neighbourhood, change is happening. And in this part of town, change is good.