First Nations Issues

[Tacheguy]

How about portable treaty rights? Paid directly to individuals regardless of where they reside. Many chiefs wouldn't like it but the people might. I am no expert on these issues but this is an idea that has been studied in the past.

I suppose the Chiefs would argue that, using the same logic, federal transfers to provincial governments could also go to individuals..

[crocket]

Originally Posted by biguc

People are already free to relocate voluntarily. Many do. Many don't. Your solution is a non-solution, it's just the status quo.


I'll stop calling people out for saying racist things when they stop saying racist things. I'm sure you appreciate the nuance between calling people racists--as if they're born Klansmen or Nazis--and pointing out that there are insidiously racist ideas behind what they're saying.

I am definitely not for the status quo. You're not calling anyone out for being racist, you're just hiding behind it. It is what cowards do. We need major change. The treaties, the land rights, the governmental organizations that regulate funds; they are all mechanisms that inhibit natives in Canada. Some of your assertions are so simple minded too. Educate yourself and look in the mirror when you get the urge to call someone else racist.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by biguc

People are already free to relocate voluntarily. Many do. Many don't. Your solution is a non-solution, it's just the status quo.


I'll stop calling people out for saying racist things when they stop saying racist things. I'm sure you appreciate the nuance between calling people racists--as if they're born Klansmen or Nazis--and pointing out that there are insidiously racist ideas behind what they're saying.

We need way better programs and avenues for moving from a reserve to a new community or city. Not as simple as "People are free to relocate voluntarily." But again, don't contribute anything, just sit back and call people racist.

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si..._Migration.pdf

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by crocket

We need way better programs and avenues for moving from a reserve to a new community or city. Not as simple as "People are free to relocate voluntarily." But again, don't contribute anything, just sit back and call people racist.

Sitting back and calling people racist, sitting back and pretending to have all the answers...I'm not sure that one is any more productive than the other.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Sitting back and calling people racist, sitting back and pretending to have all the answers...I'm not sure that one is any more productive than the other.

Talking about ideas is not professing to have all the answers. I believe biguc has all the answers and everyone is racist who presents anything different.

[hexrae]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Sitting back and calling people racist, sitting back and pretending to have all the answers...I'm not sure that one is any more productive than the other.

I thought about this the other day. I know this a forum to discuss ideas and thoughts, but at the end of the day, what is anyone doing to better the situation? Sure it's fun to spitball ideas and chat, but in 1, 5 or 10 years from now, has any progress been made?

Let me take this away as an action item to present later on.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by crocket

We need way better programs and avenues for moving from a reserve to a new community or city. Not as simple as "People are free to relocate voluntarily." But again, don't contribute anything, just sit back and call people racist.

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si..._Migration.pdf

All this time I thought you were a grown up.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by biguc

All this time I thought you were a grown up.

I love how you prove my point over and over, it is so predictable. Now its another form of name calling. Haha. Ya, that's so grown up of you.

Again, it is an issue that is almost impossible to talk about because of people like this.

[Cyro]

Civil discussion please.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by crocket

I love how you prove my point over and over, it is so predictable. Now its another form of name calling. Haha. Ya, that's so grown up of you.

Again, it is an issue that is almost impossible to talk about because of people like this.

If you want to engage with biguc, you are going to get bullied. Just think of him as an unpleasant smell in the room and ignore him.

[Bluenote]

All good arguments to a point.

But I ask this.

Why do American reserves function pretty well????? They get way less money then they do here. Yet they police themselves. They educate themselves. And they take care of their homes and land.

Why are reservations in BC for the most part successful ????

Then we come to Sask and MB reserves and most are failures.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

All good arguments to a point.

But I ask this.

Why do American reserves function pretty well????? They get way less money then they do here. Yet they police themselves. They educate themselves. And they take care of their homes and land.

Why are reservations in BC for the most part successful ????

Then we come to Sask and MB reserves and most are failures.

Interesting, but in America reserves are in the bottom 1% economically, they don't do well at all. They suffer from the same "tragedy of the commons" that Canadian native reservations do. In BC, the "successful" ones are sitting on natural resources, so they have crown funding and an economic source.

this article is decent outlining the contributors to the horrific conditions on reserves in America, almost the same as Canada.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkopp.../#1bf2341a337a

[hexrae]

I'm not as well versed in BC First Nations as I'd like to be, but one major difference no treaties where signed there. Well, treaty 8 did overlap into northern BC.

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by crocket

Interesting, but in America reserves are in the bottom 1% economically, they don't do well at all. They suffer from the same "tragedy of the commons" that Canadian native reservations do. In BC, the "successful" ones are sitting on natural resources, so they have crown funding and an economic source.

this article is decent outlining the contributors to the horrific conditions on reserves in America, almost the same as Canada.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkopp.../#1bf2341a337a

I don't compare the American reserves to American people's worth. I am comparing them to our reserves. I have been on many American reserves and they are clean. The people for the most part are happy. They are educated much better then ours. They don't destroy their homes.

Being below what society deams is the poverty line isn't a straight line. If you can support yourself then you are above it. Having a Cadillac or a 3 story house doesn't make you above it. It makes you in debt. If you took the net worth of Americans and Canadians and deducted their net debt. We'd all be below the so called poverty line. Natives in both countries tend to not take loans out like we do. So again it isn't a straight line for reference.

BC natives are far from all sitting on natural resources. Many have created actual economic zones in their reserves that have nothing to do with mining or pulp or oil etc.

As for resources. Well look at most northern ones here. They take money from hydro ( natural resource ). They take money from mining ( natural resource ). The list goes on and on. Yet they still fair poorly. They still are under educated even though is 100% free. So don't say it's because there are no natural resources here. Or they don't have the opportunity to better themselves.


One thing off topic that does annoy me.

We get blamed for their gambling obsession. Yet they keep building casinos on their reserves. .......

[Urban recluse]

I find it amusing how they rebuke interference, yet demand help with all of their problems.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

Being below what society deams is the poverty line isn't a straight line. If you can support yourself then you are above it. Having a Cadillac or a 3 story house doesn't make you above it. It makes you in debt. If you took the net worth of Americans and Canadians and deducted their net debt. We'd all be below the so called poverty line. Natives in both countries tend to not take loans out like we do. So again it isn't a straight line for reference.

BC natives are far from all sitting on natural resources. Many have created actual economic zones in their reserves that have nothing to do with mining or pulp or oil etc.

As for resources. Well look at most northern ones here. They take money from hydro ( natural resource ). They take money from mining ( natural resource ). The list goes on and on. Yet they still fair poorly. They still are under educated even though is 100% free. So don't say it's because there are no natural resources here. Or they don't have the opportunity to better themselves.

Having access to credit is not the same thing as living in poverty. Also, http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/de...tion-1.3414183

[Ando]

Interesting piece in the FP further to Gordon Sinclair's weird article the other day where he implied that Wab Kinew is ready to pounce on him at any time and physically assault him.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...373736491.html

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ando

Interesting piece in the FP further to Gordon Sinclair's weird article the other day where he implied that Wab Kinew is ready to pounce on him at any time and physically assault him.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...373736491.html

Oh, how interesting. An ad hominem attack on someone who called out Wab on some rather uncomfortable facts.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by Bluenote

I don't compare the American reserves to American people's worth. I am comparing them to our reserves. I have been on many American reserves and they are clean. The people for the most part are happy. They are educated much better then ours. They don't destroy their homes.

Being below what society deams is the poverty line isn't a straight line. If you can support yourself then you are above it. Having a Cadillac or a 3 story house doesn't make you above it. It makes you in debt. If you took the net worth of Americans and Canadians and deducted their net debt. We'd all be below the so called poverty line. Natives in both countries tend to not take loans out like we do. So again it isn't a straight line for reference.

BC natives are far from all sitting on natural resources. Many have created actual economic zones in their reserves that have nothing to do with mining or pulp or oil etc.

As for resources. Well look at most northern ones here. They take money from hydro ( natural resource ). They take money from mining ( natural resource ). The list goes on and on. Yet they still fair poorly. They still are under educated even though is 100% free. So don't say it's because there are no natural resources here. Or they don't have the opportunity to better themselves.


One thing off topic that does annoy me.

We get blamed for their gambling obsession. Yet they keep building casinos on their reserves. .......

I think you are confused about the poverty line / measure. It is a direct measure of income and affordability of food and housing etc. Here's a good resource to learn more: http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq2.htm

"Some" BC reserves are "more" successful than many northern prairie reserves almost directly related to natural resources. There are other factors that contribute that are also directly related to the economies of those regions, here's more: https://www.cdhowe.org/pdf/Commentary_390.pdf

There are a small number of American reserves that might be like what you describe but it is almost certainly related to an auxiliary economic engine. Here's more about American reserves: http://indianyouth.org/american-indi.../poverty-cycle

[Ando]

Originally Posted by esquire

Oh, how interesting. An ad hominem attack on someone who called out Wab on some rather uncomfortable facts.

Well, I think you would have to read the Sinclair column to appreciate. Regardless of the issue of making inadvisable public statements and the whole issue of redemption and so on, Sinclair implies clearly that he sees Kinew as physically dangerous and that he feared for his safety after the press conference, even though they shook hands. Perhaps you've heard of Gordon Sinclair and hyperbole before?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...373619181.html