Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[kevinbottawa]

Just picked up the latest copy of OBJ. It says the airport is planning a $500-million expansion, including seven gates. Here are some excerpts:

The Ottawa International Airport Authority is preparing to add seven new gates as part of an expansion that could cost roughly $500 million once construction begins, according to the airport's CEO.

Mark Laroche says the airport authority is in the early planning stages of the expansion and is currently looking to hire a consultant to prepare a more detailed vision as well as determine the final layout and budget.

If it were built today, the next expansion would cost a minimum of $350 million, Mr. Laroche said, but would likely be closer to $500 million once work began.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Just picked up the latest copy of OBJ. It says the airport is planning a $500-million expansion, including seven gates. Here are some excerpts:

What does a waterfront have to do with YOW?

I'm guessing the gates will be at the North-West corner to accommodate US transborder? Down towards the South-East corridor, that area is often vacant, save for the early AM departures, 5PM bank and RON arrivals?

[MountainView]

According to their 2008 Master Plan they wanted to add 5 more gates to the transborder area by 2017, which would be a 2100 sq/m addition to the existing building. Expansion to 2030 included adding up to 4500 sq/m of space which includes the 2100 sq/m just mentioned. This would give a total of 16 transborder/international gates. Perhaps they will add somewhere between 2100-4500 sq/m of space in the addition. Seems promising because the transborder area is quite busy during peak times! Plus up to 4 aircraft usually have to be remotely parked over night due to lack of gate space in the transborder area.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Just picked up the latest copy of OBJ. It says the airport is planning a $500-million expansion, including seven gates. Here are some excerpts:

Another expansion. Already seems overbuilt to me. What is the Airport improvement fee already, $40 return?

Fees are already driving passengers to border airports. Montreal has seen its transborder numbers flatline.

We are still a bit further from the border but if Ogdensburg ever gets its act together and attracts a discount carrier transborder traffic could take a major hit. You can fly from Plattsburgh to Florida for less than just the fees would be from Ottawa. (mostly not the Airport's fault I know but still)

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by MountainView

According to their 2008 Master Plan they wanted to add 5 more gates to the transborder area by 2017, which would be a 2100 sq/m addition to the existing building. Expansion to 2030 included adding up to 4500 sq/m of space which includes the 2100 sq/m just mentioned. This would give a total of 16 transborder/international gates. Perhaps they will add somewhere between 2100-4500 sq/m of space in the addition. Seems promising because the transborder area is quite busy during peak times! Plus up to 4 aircraft usually have to be remotely parked over night due to lack of gate space in the transborder area.

Agreed! The master plan does call for transborder expansion before anything else. I go through there often enough. The early mornings can be chaotic with little seating room. It's worse in the winter months when the charter flights to sun spots is added.

I'm surprised they don't push the barricade back towards gate 14 to allow for more seating. A temporary measure to at least alleviate the congestion.

One suggestion I would have for them is to install bistro table-type seating near the wall for the escalator. I use my laptop quite a bit, as do many others. I for one would find sitting at a table/chair type scenario far better than balancing it on my lap. It'll be years before any chance of a trans border airline lounge. Some type of common workspace environment would be welcome!

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Another expansion. Already seems overbuilt to me. What is the Airport improvement fee already, $40 return?

Fees are already driving passengers to border airports. Montreal has seen its transborder numbers flatline.

We are still a bit further from the border but if Ogdensburg ever gets its act together and attracts a discount carrier transborder traffic could take a major hit. You can fly from Plattsburgh to Florida for less than just the fees would be from Ottawa. (mostly not the Airport's fault I know but still)

I disagree. An expanded airport can and will entice travelers to seek direct flights. Airlines will and have followed that trend. YOW has 3 primary banks. Early AM-mostly departures, 5 PM-arrivals and departures and late evening arrivals. Yes, during mid morning, mid afternoons it is more empty, but I'd rather that then have to wait 30+ minutes on ground after arrival for a gate at 4/5PM or later after 11PM. As stated above, some RON aircraft must park remotely already to free up gate space for arrivals.

I have a lot of faith in the YOW BODs. They have matched YOW growth to the airline arrivals/departures. It's a pity they can't manage all of the infrastructure builds within the city. Somehow, the airport can get things done on time (and also ahead of schedule) AND at projected costs. (read..city of ottawa and failure to build bridges etc...) Privatization in action with results!

[kevinbottawa]

Looking at the master plan, I see that after the 2017 expansion they would have one gate that could handle a Code E aircraft. I had to look up what meant and saw that includes planes with a large wingspan like the Boeing 747, 777, and 778. So I guess that means right now our airport can't handle those planes. If with this expansion they are able handle Code E planes, does that increase the airport's odds of attracting more flights? I don't know much about how airports and air travel work.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Looking at the master plan, I see that after the 2017 expansion they would have one gate that could handle a Code E aircraft. I had to look up what meant and saw that includes planes with a large wingspan like the Boeing 747, 777, and 778. So I guess that means right now our airport can't handle those planes. If with this expansion they are able handle Code E planes, does that increase the airport's odds of attracting more flights? I don't know much about how airports and air travel work.

The airport can handle Code E aircraft now. I believe either gates 14 or 15 and also 18 would work. Oddly enough, gate 18 is the usual gate for Porter and their relatively small BBD DH4. Those aircraft look dwarfed at that gate.

While YOW could deal with one A380 or B747/777, having multiple aircraft of that type at one time would be a challenge for ground movement. Not to mention the current Customs Hall would be heavily stressed. It's a mess now if the LHR and FRA flights arrive too close together, mixed in with the US and Charter flights.

I believe part of the expansion will include alterations and expansion to the Customs arrivals hall.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what their consultants propose. I don't think we'll see construction within the year but going forward beyond that, expect some action.

[acottawa]

Given that the airport improvement fee is a cost the airport authority has full control over, and the authority has been complaining about high costs in Canada for years, it seems to me they should be looking for alternatives to a half billion expansion. The capacity problems they have seem to be very specific (the customs hall and transborder regional jets finding a gate) which might be solved with a less grandiose scheme. The domestic departures area seems overbuilt at almost any time of day (the walk to starbucks through an empty hall often feels like a zombie movie).

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Given that the airport improvement fee is a cost the airport authority has full control over, and the authority has been complaining about high costs in Canada for years, it seems to me they should be looking for alternatives to a half billion expansion. The capacity problems they have seem to be very specific (the customs hall and transborder regional jets finding a gate) which might be solved with a less grandiose scheme. The domestic departures area seems overbuilt at almost any time of day (the walk to starbucks through an empty hall often feels like a zombie movie).

The airport authority is building an airport designed to accommodate and stimulate growth. Unlike many other infrastructure designs that simply play catch-up. Since 1997, the first year of the transfer from the Feds, the airport has expanded to grow. Quote from the 2012 annual report:

"Since transfer, the market has grown from just over 3.1 million passengers to nearly 4.7 million in 2012 (an increase of more than 51%), and commercial aircraft
movements have jumped from 77,000 to nearly 91,000 in the same timeframe (an increase of 17%)."

The authority could have simply kept the old terminal and modified it to meet then-current demand. Had that been the plan going forward, I doubt the airport services we receive now would exist.

There's nothing wrong with building and expanding looking 10+ years in advance. It's a pity many of our bridges and other infrastructures original designs and builds didn't look forward. For example, the Champlain bridge was built for 2 lanes. A third lane was added later at great cost. How much more would 4 lanes cost compared to 2 lanes during the original build? The same goes for the Hunt Club bridge. How about the Queensway? It's original build was 4 lanes.

I understand your consideration of the improvement fees. However, it is a fee (tax) paid only by the users of the airport, not the general public, on a per-use basis. Lowering the fee by $10 or $15 bucks isn't going entice more people to choose to fly to/from Ottawa, nor will it entice other competitive carriers to fly here.

[MountainView]

A big problem for the airport currently is all the charters we have in the winter months to southern destinations. All the charters use gates 11-15. Gates 14-15 are 'swing' gates and can be used for domestic or transborder/international flights. I think the main reason why they don't just add more of these (gates 16, 17, or18) is because as soon as you come through security you are in between 16 & 17 so it would be hard to have the partitioned with a glass window. Also, Air Canada loves to use gates 16 & 17 for it's rapidair flights to Toronto (they also use 14 & 15 at off peak times). So their customers walk through security and are right at their gates. Also, Porter has a lounge in between gates 18 & 20 and they seem to be the only carrier to use these gates because of that. I agree those gates could easily handle aircraft larger than Porter's but I'm sure they negotiated something with the Airport to have their gates and lounge located close to where you enter from security.

So there is really no other option other than to expand the transborder area. Any US bound flight leaving after 7am in the morning is usually remotely parked overnight. That's about 4-6 aircraft on any given day. Now imagine this is February or March where you have 3-4 extra morning flights to Sun destinations...what gates do they all use? Adding 7 extra gates are needed especially if they want to attract more US destinations (hint hint Miami & San Francisco). Also, if Porter ever wanted to fly Ottawa direct to a US destination they would need to use a gate over there too! All in all, I think the expansion is necessary and should be completed within 2-4 years.

[MalcolmTucker]

$500 million for 7 gates is a bit steep. I assume the project includes new taxiways and other air side improvements to get anywhere close to that dollar figure.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

$500 million for 7 gates is a bit steep. I assume the project includes new taxiways and other air side improvements to get anywhere close to that dollar figure.

It is a lot of money, but you are correct the amount is for more than just 7 gates. Expanded customs areas, expanded sterile corridors for swing gates, luggage facilities expansion plus a building extension for the new gates. If the building is expanded towards the north, that would also require expansions to the apron/taxi ways.

Not a big deal, but adding 7 gates to the transborder area will also finally use up gate numbers 7-11, which right now don't exist. To save re-renumbering the entire concourse, they'll probably add A/B gates to the existing numbers.

This is a budgeted amount. It's entirely possible the final build will be short of that amount. Once the consultants have submitted their proposals we'll know the true dollar amount.

[MountainView]

They also need to demolish and probably replace that Canada Welcome Centre that you see all the international delegates go to when they first arrive in Canad to talk to Harper/other Officials. It is currently in the way of expanding the terminal and taxiways.

[J.OT13]

Airport plans to add seven new gates

The Ottawa International Airport Authority is preparing to add seven new gates as part of an expansion plan that could cost roughly $500 million once construction begins, according to the airport’s CEO.

Mark Laroche says the airport authority is in the early planning stages of the expansion and is currently looking to hire a consultant to prepare a more detailed vision and determine the final layout and budget.

The last expansion of the airport’s terminal, completed in December 2008, added 12 news gates and brought the total to 27.

If it were built today, the next expansion would cost a minimum of $350 million, Mr. Laroche said, adding that the final price tag is likely to be closer to $500 million.

While the airport knows it will need additional capacity in the coming years, Mr. Laroche said officials must be careful not to pull the trigger prematurely.

“You don’t want passengers paying for capacity that is not required,” he told OBJ in an interview ahead of the airport authority’s annual general meeting this month.

There's no firm timeline for any expansion project, which would need to be approved by the airport authority's board of directors.


The airport broke its own passenger traffic record for the eighth time in the last nine years in 2012 with 4.69 million travellers passing through its terminal, an increase of 1.33 per cent.

While 2012 got off to a strong start, passenger numbers waned as the year continued.

Mr. Laroche replaced long-time president and CEO Paul Benoit, who officially retired at the end of February after more than 16 years on the job.

Prior to taking the Ottawa’s airport’s top job, Mr. Laroche served as president and CEO of the Canada Lands Company, a federal Crown corporation that inherits surplus government properties and readies the sites for resale. It also owns and operates landmarks such as the CN Tower in Toronto.

The Ottawa International Airport Authority controls more than 700 acres of land available for development. Building on those sites and turning the airport into an even larger employment node is one part of a joint economic vision drafted by city and airport officials.

Earlier this year, the airport reached an agreement with the National Capital Region to remove the airport from the Greenbelt - facilitating future expansions and development - in exchange for protecting lands to the south and west of the airport.

“I’m very pro-development … (and) want the airport to be viewed as an economic engine,” Mr. Laroche said.

He added that the airport has formally committed to negotiating development rights with two parties who are bidding to build a casino in Ottawa if they are selected as the preferred proponent by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp.

Any revenue generated through long-term land leases - such as the agreement that enabled construction of the CE Centre, since renamed the Ernst & Young Centre - reduces the revenue requirements of the aeronautical side of the airport’s business. In other words, land development can help make Ottawa a cheaper and more attractive destination for airlines to service.

While airport officials are constantly lobbying airlines to add new destinations, Mr. Laroche said new direct flights to Paris and Miami currently top his wish list.

The French capital would connect Ottawa with another European hub and complement Air Canada’s current service to Frankfurt and London, U.K. Miami, meanwhile, would provide greater access to major South American markets and business destinations in the Caribbean.

Looking into to it, but not set in stone. If you ask me, they should look into making a financial contribution to the city to extend the ORT to the airport. The Vancouver International Airport invested 300 million in the Canada line. If the MacDonald-Cartier Int' Airport contributes a proportional amount (financial contribution to annual passenger volume), they would offer us 83.3 million dollars.

[MalcolmTucker]

There just isn't enough demand to justify a rail link, no matter how convenient it would be.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If you ask me, they should look into making a financial contribution to the city to extend the ORT to the airport.

And enable its loss of millions of dollars in annual parking revenues?

On the list of the OMCIAA's priorities, I bet this appears exactly nowhere.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Looking into to it, but not set in stone. If you ask me, they should look into making a financial contribution to the city to extend the ORT to the airport. The Vancouver International Airport invested 300 million in the Canada line. If the MacDonald-Cartier Int' Airport contributes a proportional amount (financial contribution to annual passenger volume), they would offer us 83.3 million dollars.

As you stated, there is no indication they will contribute. There is also no indication they wouldn't. It's an interesting thought. I wonder if Toronto Airport Authority is contributing to it's Downtown to Airport rail link already under construction.

There is the fiasco of the N-S rail contract that was awarded then later withdrawn. The Confederation LRT is now under construction. Does the City of Ottawa budget have the available resources and financial stability to manage the construction of the O-Train expansion to YOW at this time? Who's to say the O-Train is the best option? Maybe LRT expansion from Hurdman following the existing transit route to the airport is a better option.

Considering this thread is about the airport, lets compare the Ottawa Transit system to airlines. LCC's are able to keep costs lower by operating one, maybe two aircraft types. The LCC's are by and large more efficient with their costs compared to Legacy carriers who tend to have multiple aircraft types.

Should Ottawa envision THREE modes of public transportation? Bus, LRT and "heavy" rail such as the O-Train? That's a lot of different modes of public transportation for a city of this size. It's certainly not cost effective when you consider the requirements of maintenance facilities (each require their own), trained maintenance personnel, operators, schedulers etc etc.

I personally feel the O-Train won't be around in 15 years or so. I would suggest to keep it as is, for now. Once Confederation is up and running and the E-W extensions are being developed, due consideration should be given to either disbanding the O-Train, or modifying it to LRT.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

And enable its loss of millions of dollars in annual parking revenues?

On the list of the OMCIAA's priorities, I bet this appears exactly nowhere.

I would guess that it is being discussed and considered. Not necessarily for the short term, but long term. I think the city should first approach the OMCIAA to begin the discussion of financial contributions.

[Luker]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

As you stated, there is no indication they will contribute. There is also no indication they wouldn't. It's an interesting thought. I wonder if Toronto Airport Authority is contributing to it's Downtown to Airport rail link already under construction.

There is the fiasco of the N-S rail contract that was awarded then later withdrawn. The Confederation LRT is now under construction. Does the City of Ottawa budget have the available resources and financial stability to manage the construction of the O-Train expansion to YOW at this time? Who's to say the O-Train is the best option? Maybe LRT expansion from Hurdman following the existing transit route to the airport is a better option.

Considering this thread is about the airport, lets compare the Ottawa Transit system to airlines. LCC's are able to keep costs lower by operating one, maybe two aircraft types. The LCC's are by and large more efficient with their costs compared to Legacy carriers who tend to have multiple aircraft types.

Should Ottawa envision THREE modes of public transportation? Bus, LRT and "heavy" rail such as the O-Train? That's a lot of different modes of public transportation for a city of this size. It's certainly not cost effective when you consider the requirements of maintenance facilities (each require their own), trained maintenance personnel, operators, schedulers etc etc.

I personally feel the O-Train won't be around in 15 years or so. I would suggest to keep it as is, for now. Once Confederation is up and running and the E-W extensions are being developed, due consideration should be given to either disbanding the O-Train, or modifying it to LRT.

Haha very interesting metaphor for the situation.

Does anyone know how expensive our heavy rail vs light rail maintenance and operation costs are?