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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
That is what I took from the comments the team made. This is a transitional measure (almost certainly surface parking) that will be in place while the area fully develops. Presumably it will be replaced by underground parking as things are built. I do like that the NCC has committed to a development timeline, so hopefully that will move things along quicker than the one building every 8 years pace that we have seen to date.

I don't think that the parking is essential to making the finances work. Most downtown arenas don't include any parking. The real prize will be the development revenues that come from the land that they own.
It could very well be that the parking isn't part of the financial montage, but instead that the Senators think that their fans won't come if they don't have a place to park. (Not an entirely false assumption.)
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 8:53 PM
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It could very well be that the parking isn't part of the financial montage, but instead that the Senators think that their fans won't come if they don't have a place to park. (Not an entirely false assumption.)
True, though that place to park doesn't have to be directly on the arena property. There is already lots of parking within a reasonable walk.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 9:34 PM
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Wonder how much soil decontamination will cost. 8 years ago it was in the $170M-300M range. Probably double that today.

I believe the city will be on the hook for 50% of it through the brownfield grant program.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 10:04 PM
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Ottawa Senators' LeBreton deal is a small, but positive step toward a downtown NHL arena

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 20, 2024 • Last updated 50 minutes ago • 4 minute read


I’m sure some people will be upset to learn that the Ottawa Senators are going to pack up their tent in Kanata and move to LeBreton Flats.

I’m not one of them. I’ve always favoured a downtown arena, well before the tumbleweeds took over Ottawa’s core four years ago. Downtown arenas are good for cities and, in this case, particularly for fans living in places such as Gatineau and Orléans, for whom journeys to and from the Canadian Tire Centre can take on Homer’s Odyssey proportions. And it’s not just good for hockey fans, but fans of everything that arenas offer: sports events, music, conventions, monster trucks and the like.

So Friday’s announcement that the NCC and Senators have reached an agreement whereby the club will purchase a parcel of land at LeBreton Flats on which to build an arena is a welcome and significant step.

It is, though, just a step in what will be an extremely long process, and one for which few details have yet been made available.

And it’s worth noting that it’s not even a particularly pioneering step: recall that the NCC and former Sens owner Eugene Melnyk had a lease agreement in place in 2018, when the larger, 52-acre Rendezvous LeBreton plan won the favour of the NCC. That deal fell apart as lawsuits between Melnyk and investment partner John Ruddy of Trinity Developments torpedoed the project.

What makes this deal a safer bet is that new Sens owner Michael Andlauer appears committed to it, and more willing than Melnyk was to work with others to make it happen. Working with others was never Melnyk’s strong suit.

So while we know the size of the parcel — just over 10 acres, or four hectares, according to NCC head Tobi Nussbaum, who made Friday’s announcement at the Canadian Tire Centre alongside Sens president Cyril Leeder — so much else surrounding the deal remains a mystery.

How much is the land being sold for? Market value, Nussbaum said, although that precise figure hasn’t been determined. And the sale isn’t expected to be finalized until next year.

When will the team move in? Not for years, but your guess would be as good as anything offered Friday.

There apparently still aren’t any architectural designs for the arena, while a host of other issues, such as site contamination cleanup and geological and environmental studies, must be resolved before any banners are raised to the rafters.

Then there’s that little matter of how much a new arena will cost, and whether taxpayers will be asked or expected to foot any of the bill.

Leeder had no answer for the first, what with no designs being ready yet and all. But the figure that’s been bandied about to build a new arena is around $900 million, an amount Andlauer told The Athletic in May is “not something a private person can afford to do.”

Asked Friday whether city taxpayers might be expected to shoulder some of the cost, Leeder said, “We’re a long ways from getting into details on how we’re going to approach this project with the city,” but then added that he didn’t think taxpayers should have to foot the bill.

“I don’t think so,” he said. “If you look at the history in Canada, public venues, whether arenas or stadiums, have not been funded by the taxpayer.”

I think residents of Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Quebec City and Gatineau — cities where tax dollars have helped build such facilities — might disagree.

Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe, meanwhile, posted a congratulatory message on the social media site X Friday, calling the announcement encouraging and indicating he was looking forward to hearing more. He didn’t address his willingness, or lack thereof, to have the city help pay for it. He has said in the past, though, that he doesn’t think Ottawa’s taxpayers have much of an appetite to pay for an arena.

I would think that’s probably even more the case given the mayor’s recent “fairness” campaign over the city’s precarious finances and his warnings of how taxes might have to go up just to help pay for the things we’ve already bought.

Taxpayers shouldn’t have to foot the bill for the arena. Perhaps Andlauer doesn’t have a spare billion in his wallet, but he probably knows some people who do. And while Leeder cited some Public Private Partnerships (P3s) — the Bell Sensplex and the Richcraft Sensplex — that he says are working well, I suspect most Ottawans still have a bad taste in their mouths after some other P3s — Lansdowne and LRT, for example — haven’t run quite so well.

Meanwhile, there’s a long road ahead that will be littered with many hurdles. Some of those will be of the expected type, while others might prove to be unexpectedly serious snags — long delays, cost overruns, labour issues and, yes, personality conflicts — that could threaten its success. But this is a great first step, for the team and for Ottawa.

Go Sens!

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https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...town-nhl-arena
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 10:07 PM
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How the Ottawa Senators’ new home got to this stage
From lumber mills to centre ice: a timeline of LeBreton Flats' history.

Catherine Morrison, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 20, 2024 • Last updated 22 minutes ago • 6 minute read


LeBreton Flats is soon expected to be the site of a new arena to house the National Hockey League’s Ottawa Senators.

Before it was considered a hockey hotspot, the land at the heart of downtown Ottawa had a much more complicated history.

<more>

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...ators-new-home
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 3:03 AM
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Wonder how much soil decontamination will cost. 8 years ago it was in the $170M-300M range. Probably double that today.

I believe the city will be on the hook for 50% of it through the brownfield grant program.
The NCC spent a pile of money years ago to remove contaminated soil at the Flats? Did they only remove some of it?
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 4:05 AM
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The NCC spent a pile of money years ago to remove contaminated soil at the Flats? Did they only remove some of it?
Yes, it was around 2013 I think.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 5:02 AM
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Anyone know which direction the additional ~3 acres stretches from the original parcel? To the east or to the west (or both)?
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 12:48 PM
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How will people get there? By LRT? By bus? Good luck...
The thing with downtown stadiums is that people will disperse in every direction after the game and take many different routes back. I can see people parking as far away as Little Italy or Gatineau, having dinner at a nice restaurant and walking over, then walking back after the game and driving home without traffic. If you go to games in Toronto or Montreal, you'll see parking lots advertising game day parking in a wide radius around the stadium. So whether you drive, take public transit or even just walk (possible for downtown people), it ends up being a better experience than everyone arriving by the same highway and squeezing into the same highway access points after the event.

Lebreton has also shown itself to be a great place for big events, and I don't hear anyone complain about getting to/from Bluesfest (a larger crowd than an NHL game). Once the area gets built up, it'll be even better.

I'm really excited for this part of town - really everywhere from Gatineau all the way down to dows lake.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 2:02 PM
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Sens buy 10 acres of land at LeBreton from NCC to build new arena
Both sides say it will be years before shovels are in the ground

Mia Jensen, David Sali, OBJ
September 20, 2024 10:53 AM ET


The Ottawa Senators have reached a deal to buy 10 acres of land from the National Capital Commission to build a new arena at LeBreton Flats.

NCC chief executive Tobi Nussbaum said Friday at a news conference that Capital Sports Development Inc. (CSDI) has reached an agreement in principle with the Crown corporation that owns the site just west of downtown to purchase the land at “fair market value.”

Design work for the project has yet to start, and Senators CEO Cyril Leeder said Friday that it will be “years, not months, before shovels are in the ground.” As part of the upcoming due diligence period, the NCC and CSDI will outline next steps and project timelines.

Leeder said the Senators expect to take ownership of the land within the next year.

<more>

https://obj.ca/breaking-sens-ncc-rea...n-reports-say/
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 2:03 PM
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How will people get there? By LRT? By bus? Good luck...
Walk… lrt… bus.. it’s actually enjoyable to get physical education like walking…
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 2:57 PM
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The thing with downtown stadiums is that people will disperse in every direction after the game and take many different routes back. I can see people parking as far away as Little Italy or Gatineau, having dinner at a nice restaurant and walking over, then walking back after the game and driving home without traffic. If you go to games in Toronto or Montreal, you'll see parking lots advertising game day parking in a wide radius around the stadium. So whether you drive, take public transit or even just walk (possible for downtown people), it ends up being a better experience than everyone arriving by the same highway and squeezing into the same highway access points after the event.

Lebreton has also shown itself to be a great place for big events, and I don't hear anyone complain about getting to/from Bluesfest (a larger crowd than an NHL game). Once the area gets built up, it'll be even better.

I'm really excited for this part of town - really everywhere from Gatineau all the way down to dows lake.
This is a good breakdown. Indeed, I expect to see many signs advertising $20-40 game day parking from mom-and-pop lots in the vicinity of the arena. Similarly, I think many folks will choose to park in underground garages in the CBD (which already collectively accommodate tens and tens of thousands of workers every day) and take the O-Train or walk a km or two to the west to the arena. And in 7-10 years' time (reasonable timeline for the arena), all Stage 2 O-Train extensions should be complete which will open all sorts of opportunities for arena-goers to fine tune their own "hacks" to get there (similar to how many RedBlacks fans have a go-to street-parking spot/area for game days. And not to mention some parking looks like it'll be built at the arena itself, likely reserved for players/staff, VIPs, STHs, (some) arena employees and so on.

The problem is people keep trying to shoehorn the idea of an arena at Lebreton into the context of today's Ottawa. We need to think nearly a decade down the road. Lebreton will be further along, Zibi will be further along, the O-Train extensions will be complete. Bluesfest will continue to run its fine-tuned operation. The area will continue to evolve and learn how to accommodate an increasing volume of people before the arena opens its doors. There's plenty of time to adjust.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 3:38 PM
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I see all these comments about how easy it will be to get to this arena because people can get to Bluesfest, or they will go have dinner in Gatineau and stroll over for the game, and I'm reminded that it's still September. Been a while since the cold howling winds and blowing snow of when a good chunk of hockey season falls. I think DTcrawler is right, eventually it will work out. Transit will be built out and at some point, hopefully, the areas surrounding the arena will get built up and have some parking included as well. But I think there will still be some number of years after the place opens when there will be some grumbling about access.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 4:41 PM
DTcrawler DTcrawler is offline
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I see all these comments about how easy it will be to get to this arena because people can get to Bluesfest, or they will go have dinner in Gatineau and stroll over for the game, and I'm reminded that it's still September. Been a while since the cold howling winds and blowing snow of when a good chunk of hockey season falls. I think DTcrawler is right, eventually it will work out. Transit will be built out and at some point, hopefully, the areas surrounding the arena will get built up and have some parking included as well. But I think there will still be some number of years after the place opens when there will be some grumbling about access.
No doubt, but I think that can largely be attributed to the Ottawa Effect™ which essentially equates to entitlement. Many people here, mostly Ottawa-lifers with little travel experience, or folks from elsewhere who've lived here long enough to get sucked into the culture, have this bizarre idea that we should have big city amenities without the big city headaches. The wait to get on a train at Pimisi post-Bluesfest is actually similar or shorter than what you'd experience at major events in many other cities. Try taking the subway in NYC after a Yankees game. Or the subway from Union station in Toronto after an event at Scotiabank Arena. Unfortunately, people here bemoan our infrastructure in favour of these fantasy utopias that they believe exist elsewhere. In reality, Ottawa is pretty status-quo, wherein the magnitude of access-related headaches for major events is pretty commensurate with our population (not saying there isn't room for improvement).

So in summary, yes, there will be whingeing once the new arena opens from people with unrealistic expectations. People who expect smooth sailing traffic from the 417 to Lebreton and a cheap parking spot with their name on it. And of course those complaints will take up the most oxygen online and get aired by the media. The same people who wonder why they can't drive their F-150 from Navan to the Glebe for a RedBlacks game without delay when thousands of others are trying to do the same thing, and when you're explicitly told that Park & Shuttles or 450-series buses are the way to go.

But many (hopefully most) people will make the adjustment to the new arena just fine and be perfectly quiet about it. I guess another thing is that 7-10 years in the future, hopefully Ottawa has shed a lot more of its small-town mentality and people have improved their mental resiliency a bit.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2024, 1:16 AM
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Been a while since the cold howling winds and blowing snow of when a good chunk of hockey season falls. I think DTcrawler is right, eventually it will work out.
Call me nostalgic, but I still have fond memories of trudging through the cold and snow in Toronto to Maple Leaf Gardens and stepping inside to get warm. Same in Montreal for the Bell Centre. There's something cool about the experience of walking through various streets along with thousands of people that you know are going to the same game... almost a tribal feeling. You don't get that when you're in your car and walking through the parking lot at CTC...which can be an equally long walk and equally cold. I look forward to getting cold walking in Lebreton Flats to a game.. hopefully they'll be a few places to stop for a drink along the way
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 12:39 PM
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How will people get there? By LRT? By bus? Good luck...
I've said this 50000x already. There are thousands of heated underground parking spots on the western edge of Centretown that sit unused every evening. So even if the LRT completely imploded (which it won't) people could park and walk to the arena. Of course this won't be great in Jan/Feb but for most of March-December it will be quite reasonable. Those with disabilities etc. will need to park closer and/or take the LRT, but the average person will use these spots I would imagine. I know I will.

Look at what people do in Montreal to get to the University stadium for football games or in Toronto to get to the AC. Very few are parking on site!
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 1:56 PM
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It's official!

What we know so far:
  • Sens will get 10 acres, up from the original 6 acres that was offered (Calgary Flames new arena will be on 10 acres, Chase Centre in San Fran + two office towers in on 11 acres);
  • Sens will buy the land, as opposed to NCC's preferred long term leases;
  • Sens will not ask for tax payer money, but may ask for the Sensplex model (community rinks built and financed by the Sens, but with loan guarantees from City, development charge tax breaks and ice time for City);
  • No design work has been done so far, no timeline;
  • No plans for the CTC, but they want to do something "special";
  • Will continue to invest in improving the CTC, but that investment will tapper down once shovels are in the ground for the new arena.

Sens/NCC press conference:

Video Link


On Saturday, Andlauer celebrated his first year a owner at the Slush Puppie Arena in Gatineau, where the team held a scrimmage match between the players. He offered more detail;
  • Hoping to get the arena open within 5 years;
  • This is about the team, the arena and the fans, not a real estate deal;
  • It's important for him to get closer to the Gatineau and francophone fanbase;
  • He'll "rip off" the best aspects of existing arenas; huge fan of Centre Videotron;
  • Reiterated that he won't ask for a direct financial contribution from taxpayers;
  • Working with the City of Gatineau to build a new Sensplex.

Full media availability;

Video Link
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 2:02 PM
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Andlauer celebrates whirlwind first year as Senators owner with long-awaited arena deal

Wayne Scanlan, SportsNet
September 21, 2024


His smile was as big as all Outaouais outdoors.

And who could blame him?

Michael Andlauer, the first fully bilingual owner of the Ottawa Senators, was in Gatineau celebrating the first anniversary of his majority ownership with a new arena deal for the LeBreton Flats, west of Parliament Hill, in his back pocket.

That the Senators' very public Saturday scrimmage in Quebec for a mostly francophone audience should coincide with his one-year anniversary, plus the arena deal, was a rather wondrous confluence of events not lost on Andlauer. A kind of Trois Rivieres.

“What a great present to get yesterday, with the signing of an agreement with the NCC,” Andlauer said.

The NHL team owner was speaking to reporters from a conference room at the Slush Puppie Centre, home of the QMJHL Gatineau Olympiques. As he spoke, Senators players were finishing up a first practice, before a black vs white jersey scrimmage, followed by another practice session in front of a nice crowd at the Slush.

Andlauer must have felt he could finally draw a breath, following a sometimes tense, year-long negotiation with the National Capital Commission. At the first meeting, Andlauer thought this deal on this land was not going to happen. Here were the Lords of LeBreton, also known as the NCC, or the Crown corporation that oversees federal lands, talking about “zero carbon” and zero parking at any new rink for LeBreton.

That was a non-starter for Andlauer and the Senators. As much as the new arena will rely on Light Rail Transit service, the Senators insisted on a venue to accommodate some car traffic, as well as not being handcuffed by severe carbon restrictions for themselves and visiting NHL teams.

In time, the Senators learned to bend on some environmental concerns, and the NCC showed flexibility, which we haven’t always seen, while this precious chunk of land has sat mostly empty since the early 1960s.

“It took a whole year to do it,” Andlauer says. “When I looked at this, I knew the potential was there. I heard it. I’ve heard it everywhere, even here in Gatineau, the desire to have an arena downtown.”

Asked about a timeline for moving out of their current Kanata digs to a new home in LeBreton, 24 kilometres east, Andlauer got a little rosy with his forecast.

“Honestly, if I could, I would drop the puck tomorrow,” Andlauer beamed. “I’m going to be diligent, I’m going to be transparent when you ask me what the status is and where the hurdles are.

“The sooner the better.”

“I would love to say in five years, we’re dropping the puck”

Andlauer has seen comments on social media from area fans in their 40s wondering if they’ll be 50 by the time they’re watching NHL hockey at LeBreton.

“It takes time,” he says. “I would love to say that in five years we’re dropping the puck. I think that’s certainly possible. Once the process gets started, we’ll probably have a better idea. I’d like to under promise and over deliver.”

In passing, Andlauer mentioned receiving a congratulatory phone call from Ottawa mayor Mark Sutcliffe, a pretty classy gesture considering Sutcliffe preferred that the new arena go in the heart of the city, not the outskirts of downtown.

That phone conversation is a nice ice-breaker for what Andlauer says is a lot of negotiating among the NCC, the Senators and the city.

“I’ve told them, the three of us have to work closely,” Andlauer said. “We have to sit down and collaborate and do what’s in the best interest of the people of Ottawa.”

Andlauer echoed club president Cyril Leeder when the owner said the arena project “shouldn’t cost taxpayers money.”

Both Andlauer and Leeder mentioned the so-called P3 agreements the team and city have with a couple of Sensplex recreational arenas in the region. In these public-private partnerships, the private entity initiates the financing while the city guarantees the debt. The city waives property and development charges on the site while purchasing and reselling hundreds of hours of ice. Both sides have seen benefits over the years.

Look for the parties to try to work on similar, creative avenues toward funding at LeBreton, as well as what might be negotiated with the provincial and federal governments.

Fan costs will be taken into account.

“I don’t want our fans to be paying $200 for a ticket, $30 for beer and $50 for parking,” he said. “I want everybody to feel optimistic that we’re going to do this together.”

Senators management, including Andlauer, has toured numerous NHL venues to find out what could work on the 10-plus acres of land they are buying from the NCC.

“I’m a big R and D guy, I like to rip off and duplicate where I see it’s best,” Andlauer said. “And we want this to be something that the capital of this country can be proud of when people come in and see shows and watch hockey.”

Ironically, Andlauer was most recently impressed with a visit to perhaps the most famous Non-NHL rink, the one in Quebec City that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman fails to see as a future (and once storied in the past) NHL franchise.

“I was actually in awe of that building,” Andlauer says. “The Videotron, with the light coming in and in the top section you can overlook the city. It was magnificent. I wish I could just pick it up and bring it over here.”

Andlauer feels it’s just as important that the NCC is held accountable for delivering the goods on the larger parcel of land being developed around the arena, as a proper complement. The rink itself will serve more than just NHL hockey on the menu.

“We’re going to be playing 40 home games and hopefully a dozen playoff games every year,” Andlauer said. “And that’s only one-third of the events we’re going to have. So, this is an event centre for the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau and I’m excited about that.”

He’s not kidding about the Gatineau aspect of the equation.

Andlauer, who grew up in Montreal, was in his element standing in this Quebec rink, speaking in both Official Languages about a bright future for the National Capital Region.

“I mean, it’s – shame on me, you know, not realizing how connected Gatineau and Ottawa are,” Andlauer said. “It’s 15 minutes to get here (Slush Puppie Centre) from my house on Dow’s Lake. It’s so close. They’re connected. We’re connected.

“I play golf at the Royal Ottawa and it’s in Gatineau. People I speak to either work in Gatineau and live in Ottawa or vice-versa. As I came in here and talked to fans in the concourse, I couldn’t believe how excited they are to have a venue at LeBreton Flats, and how close it is.

“That should answer, you know, why I’m excited and why it makes so much sense.”

Gatineau mayor on board

Gatineau’s young mayor, Maude Marquis-Bissonnette, was at Saturday’s festivities dressed in a Senators jersey.

Marquis-Bissonnette, who holds a PhD from Carleton University, imagines a great future for Gatineau and Ottawa given the recent bridge connections and future links and tramways planned between the two cities – now with a pending shared attraction of a LeBreton arena.

The Senators haven’t been able to penetrate the Gatineau market – still a Montreal Canadiens stronghold – but that could change under Andlauer and the new rink planned.

“Michael Andlauer has been head of the Senators for one year, today, and I think he’s been a game-changer,” Marquis-Bissonnette said. “We’re still looking at all the options but we certainly want to see how we can benefit from the investment of the Senators. The economic development could benefit our downtown area.”

Perron is right at home

Sherbrooke’s David Perron was in his element playing a scrimmage for his new Senators team on this outreach into Gatineau. The day started with an 8 a.m. red carpet entrance by players and staff for fans.

“It was really fun to come here this morning and see the fans on the Quebec side,” Perron said. “And obviously with the news that came out that there’s going to be a rink down here, something the city’s been waiting for for a long time, is super special.”

The veteran winger is new to Ottawa but says he is learning how to get around by his young kids, who have hockey games and dance classes to attend.

He calls this time for the franchise “a moment where the team is heading in the right direction.”

And why not bring in more fans, more kids from Ottawa and Gatineau along for the ride, Perron says.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ed-arena-deal/
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 2:49 PM
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Folks seem overly happy at the moment, given the painful dealings with the City that are yet to come.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2024, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Folks seem overly happy at the moment, given the painful dealings with the City that are yet to come.
Don't get me wrong, I'm terrified that Sutcliffe will somehow screw this up, but, knowing the Sens have no intention of asking for an actual monetary contribution and seeing Andlauer's enthusiasm, I'm feeling good about this one.
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