HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > General Discussion


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2024, 5:18 AM
Jakz Jakz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 87
I continue to be a skeptic regarding the tax difference. Household budgets are fixed. If households spend less on taxes, they have more disposable income available, most of which--given our supply-constrained housing market--goes straight to higher housing costs. Average rent in Vancouver is higher than average rent in Portland.

If OR and WA tax policies were brought into alignment, Vancouver housing costs would decrease relative to Portland. No one's saving money by moving across the river.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2024, 2:30 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakz View Post
I continue to be a skeptic regarding the tax difference. Household budgets are fixed. If households spend less on taxes, they have more disposable income available, most of which--given our supply-constrained housing market--goes straight to higher housing costs. Average rent in Vancouver is higher than average rent in Portland.

If OR and WA tax policies were brought into alignment, Vancouver housing costs would decrease relative to Portland. No one's saving money by moving across the river.
That assumes supply side is equal, which I'm assuming it's not. Portland builds far less housing than other cities, so the narrative goes. I would go as far to say the entire theory is people pay more sales tax in WA and that the states get the money one way or the other, so its a wash. But with tax free shopping an easy drive over the border, and the very high top income rate Oregon, it's pretty easy to come out ahead in WA with people of middle to high income. And then, if WA tax is regressive, the tax advantage must go to higher income people there....otherwise no taxes anywhere could be considered progressive or regressive if it simply works out in the end, that is literally the definition.

A quick Redfin search has 316 homes for sale in clark county the meet newly built (2023+) moderate high income ($400k+), 2k sf, 3 BR, etc. The 3 counties in OR have 473 homes. Clark county has 20% of the metro population but 40% of new home construction (assuming sold/for sale are similar rates). That tells me Clark is WAY better at building new homes for this income bracket, and likely keeps the prices moderated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 3:38 AM
eric cantona's Avatar
eric cantona eric cantona is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 701
Interesting article in the Mercury:

https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/202...uture-of-new-housing-is-in-old-buildings

But this really gave me the rages:

Quote:
“I was kind of shocked to see that I think there are [so many] states that have already figured this out,” Commissioner Dan Ryan said at the meeting. “Adoption of the [rehabilitation] tax credit would really be a big win for Portland and for the entire state.”
WTactualF Commissioner Ryan? Pray tell the fuck do you do all day???
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2024, 2:00 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric cantona View Post
Interesting article in the Mercury:

https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/202...uture-of-new-housing-is-in-old-buildings

But this really gave me the rages:



WTactualF Commissioner Ryan? Pray tell the fuck do you do all day???

How does PCEF decide grants? Is it based on some metric, like carbon footprint per square foot (including construction inputs, which gives existing buildings a leg up)? If preservation really is a net carbon benefit, then it will compete well and get more money to help offset rehab costs? If it doesn't compete enough to offset and make rehab financially competitive, then it does sound like this might just be a money grab to get funds from a source it was never it to be used for.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2024, 4:51 PM
pdxsg34 pdxsg34 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 348
Significant projects under construction in the central city area include:

Choice Cambria hotel (exp opening spring 2025)
Pearl U Store Self Storage on NW 14th & Savier
Press Blocks 24-story & 4-story in Goose Hollow
Julia West 13-story on SW 13th
PSU School of Art & Design
SW Park Apartments 12-story
Albina One 7-story
Alder.9 9-story
Dairy Apartments
Pop Blocks (Splash Apartments)
HollywoodHUB

That's it! Many other projects have been in review for quite some time, such as Welby, Ridgeline, NW Block 245, Conway Block 292E, SOWA Blocks 44 & 45. Any many others appear to be stalled or died, like the 1819 NW Everett St Reno, Centennial Mills, Sandy Pine, Modera Main Street, Northbound 30, Honeyman Hardware Lofts, 306 SE 8th Ave, Highwire.

With all the talk about needing more housing, the pipeline sure looks grim in terms of delivery. Hoping we see more incentives for builders in the near future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2024, 6:28 PM
babs babs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxsg34 View Post
Significant projects under construction in the central city area include:

Choice Cambria hotel (exp opening spring 2025)
Pearl U Store Self Storage on NW 14th & Savier
Press Blocks 24-story & 4-story in Goose Hollow
Julia West 13-story on SW 13th
PSU School of Art & Design
SW Park Apartments 12-story
Albina One 7-story
Alder.9 9-story
Dairy Apartments
Pop Blocks (Splash Apartments)
HollywoodHUB

That's it! Many other projects have been in review for quite some time, such as Welby, Ridgeline, NW Block 245, Conway Block 292E, SOWA Blocks 44 & 45. Any many others appear to be stalled or died, like the 1819 NW Everett St Reno, Centennial Mills, Sandy Pine, Modera Main Street, Northbound 30, Honeyman Hardware Lofts, 306 SE 8th Ave, Highwire.

With all the talk about needing more housing, the pipeline sure looks grim in terms of delivery. Hoping we see more incentives for builders in the near future.
Portland has completely forgotten about economic development. Local government is paralyzed by homelessness and what to do about it to the point that few are talking about reviving the economy. We need to get back to figuring out how to lure new companies and keeping the ones we have. The city should also be active in the VC space, encouraging VC investment in promising new startups. VC investments have largely dried up and many from the past have sold out and left the area. A growing economy is how we see more projects in the pipeline.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2024, 11:05 PM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by babs View Post
Portland has completely forgotten about economic development. Local government is paralyzed by homelessness and what to do about it to the point that few are talking about reviving the economy. We need to get back to figuring out how to lure new companies and keeping the ones we have. The city should also be active in the VC space, encouraging VC investment in promising new startups. VC investments have largely dried up and many from the past have sold out and left the area. A growing economy is how we see more projects in the pipeline.
If this country sees tariffs with all our major trade partners, then no one will be seeing many projects happening anywhere.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2024, 5:25 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
Registered Ugly
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland
Posts: 3,851
Very strange world we live in when the left is against tariffs and labor.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2024, 9:44 PM
winstonLT5's Avatar
winstonLT5 winstonLT5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxsg34 View Post
Significant projects under construction in the central city area include:

Choice Cambria hotel (exp opening spring 2025)
Pearl U Store Self Storage on NW 14th & Savier
Press Blocks 24-story & 4-story in Goose Hollow
Julia West 13-story on SW 13th
PSU School of Art & Design
SW Park Apartments 12-story
Albina One 7-story
Alder.9 9-story
Dairy Apartments
Pop Blocks (Splash Apartments)
HollywoodHUB

That's it! Many other projects have been in review for quite some time, such as Welby, Ridgeline, NW Block 245, Conway Block 292E, SOWA Blocks 44 & 45. Any many others appear to be stalled or died, like the 1819 NW Everett St Reno, Centennial Mills, Sandy Pine, Modera Main Street, Northbound 30, Honeyman Hardware Lofts, 306 SE 8th Ave, Highwire.

With all the talk about needing more housing, the pipeline sure looks grim in terms of delivery. Hoping we see more incentives for builders in the near future.
+1 Thanks for the roundup; it is much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2024, 8:25 AM
urbanlife's Avatar
urbanlife urbanlife is offline
A before E
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 11,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
Very strange world we live in when the left is against tariffs and labor.
Why would anyone be in favor of tariffs in a global economy? They make no sense and have no benefit to our economy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2024, 2:17 AM
downtownpdx's Avatar
downtownpdx downtownpdx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,077
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, have a great weekend!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2024, 4:06 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife View Post
Why would anyone be in favor of tariffs in a global economy? They make no sense and have no benefit to our economy.
We use tariffs all the time, there are currently many in place. To help foreign countries from unfairly dumping products, etc. They protect unskilled labor against some elements capitalism and free market economy, in theory.

I assume subterranean's statement is that tariffs usually protect American jobs, and therefore are things the working class and unions historically want. Surely there are likely second order effects not considered initially that hurt them in long run (higher cost goods), but that's besides the point.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2024, 6:26 PM
mhays mhays is online now
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 21,160
Tariffs make imports more expensive. And they hurt exports since other countries create similar tariffs on our goods to reciprocate. We'll probably have cheap apples and expensive electronics. Seaports will suffer.

PS, it's funny that the "ALOT" typo in the headline still remains after more than a year.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2024, 3:38 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Tariffs make imports more expensive. And they hurt exports since other countries create similar tariffs on our goods to reciprocate. We'll probably have cheap apples and expensive electronics. Seaports will suffer.

PS, it's funny that the "ALOT" typo in the headline still remains after more than a year.
Yeah, I'm not defending them, and they probably have a legitimate use when done in focused areas for short durations (say steel imports of late). But I do understand why in theory national labor would like them, on the surface. "Reciprocal tariffs, gah, we didn't think of that!"

But this is probably getting beyond the scope of this thread.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2024, 11:55 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
PS, it's funny that the "ALOT" typo in the headline still remains after more than a year.
Honestly, it made me laugh each time a new post was made in this thread, but I fixed it.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2024, 12:01 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
Registered Ugly
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Portland
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife View Post
Why would anyone be in favor of tariffs in a global economy? They make no sense and have no benefit to our economy.
The environment? Human rights?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 10:07 PM
mhays mhays is online now
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 21,160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
Honestly, it made me laugh each time a new post was made in this thread, but I fixed it.
I'm forever in your debt.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 7:53 PM
colossalorder colossalorder is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 170
This seems like welcome news.

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/05/01/housing-system-development-costs-portland/

Portland Mayor Keith Wilson and Gov. Tina Kotek announced a plan Thursday to incentivize developers to build more new housing in Portland.

Their pitch, announced at a morning press conference, is to temporarily waive certain fees developers are required to pay to build in city limits.


Glad to see political leadership considering a concrete and material step to removing impediments to build.

It is crazy that "SDCs can account for more than 6% of total development costs for a new building." 6%!!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted May 2, 2025, 11:21 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by colossalorder View Post
This seems like welcome news.

https://www.opb.org/article/2025/05/01/housing-system-development-costs-portland/

Portland Mayor Keith Wilson and Gov. Tina Kotek announced a plan Thursday to incentivize developers to build more new housing in Portland.

Their pitch, announced at a morning press conference, is to temporarily waive certain fees developers are required to pay to build in city limits.


Glad to see political leadership considering a concrete and material step to removing impediments to build.

It is crazy that "SDCs can account for more than 6% of total development costs for a new building." 6%!!!
I’d love to see a comparison of such fees between different cities. Between that, IZ (is the separate from, or included in, the 6%?), and external factors like interest rates, seems like that’s a fairly obvious impediment to developments in this city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted May 4, 2025, 3:48 PM
PhillyPDX PhillyPDX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 811
https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2025/...al-to-jolt-portlands-housing-market.html

Exactly this:

“But what is novel is the growing recognition that leaders must stop treating developers like the enemy if they ever hope to have enough units to bring the cost of housing down. The city and state do not have the money to build the tens of thousands of units each year needed to bring supply closer to demand and push the price of housing down.”

Related article today:

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2025...w-as-construction-activity-dwindles.html

My wife was meeting with construction reps this week (she’s not in construction), and they were commenting on just this topic. They were bemoaning how few there were, as a point of casual conversation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > General Discussion
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:19 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.