Sinclair Centre Redevelopment

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Presumably also why the other three are Federal Heritage buildings, and that one isn't. It's Not Special Enough.

Maybe by Ottawa standards, but I'd say it's as nice at the nearby Royal Bank building.

At one time wasn't Larco going to buy Sinclair Cetre and redevelop it?
Larco bought the Dominion Public Building in Toronto and will add 2 mixed use (condo/hotel) towers through it, including some interior heritage restoration, with office space in the historic building and link building podium.
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2020/04...proposal.42149

[madog222]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Maybe by Ottawa standards, but I'd say it's as nice at the nearby Royal Bank building.

At one time wasn't Larco going to buy Sinclair Cetre and redevelop it?
Larco bought the Dominion Public Building in Toronto and will add 2 mixed use (condo/hotel) towers through it, including some interior heritage restoration, with office space in the historic building and link building podium.
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2020/04...proposal.42149

Sinclair Centre was sold to Larco but the Musqueam Nation blocked it.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Maybe by Ottawa standards, but I'd say it's as nice at the nearby Royal Bank building.

At one time wasn't Larco going to buy Sinclair Cetre and redevelop it?
Larco bought the Dominion Public Building in Toronto and will add 2 mixed use (condo/hotel) towers through it, including some interior heritage restoration, with office space in the historic building and link building podium.
https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2020/04...proposal.42149

In 2007 the Harper government were looking to offload a lot of Federal assets. There was a package of nine properties they agreed to sell to Larco for $1.644bn, including the Sinclair Centre and 401 Burrard. That year the Musqueam went to court, and I believe the sale was finally only for 7 properties, and $244m less. It would have been a 25 year sale-and-leaseback, not a redevelopment, and the Feds had the right to buy it back after 25 years, if they wanted to.

(The Federal part of the Jericho lands was also identified for selling off in 2007, and the Sinclair claim led to the negotiations and partnership between MST and Canada Lands to redevelop them. The Musqueam had previous to 2007 reached an accommodation over the disposal of the Post Office building - relinquishing their claim in exchange for an undisclosed financial sum.)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Can't say anything good about that redevelopment plan, some things need to be just left alone.

Yes. absolutely! You got it. Leave the Sinclair Centre alone. Putting buildings on top of it will only detract from it, nothing else.

[jollyburger]

The clincher will be Fed support of a Waterfront Hub plan

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The clincher will be Fed support of a Waterfront Hub plan

Even Ottawa knows better than to f**k with CP and CN.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I fully expect the pedestrian overpass to Granville Square to be demolished with this project.

Why would they do that? What would that achieve? I hope that doesn't happen as it would be the death of that nice square.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Why would they do that? What would that achieve? I hope that doesn't happen as it would be the death of that nice square.

Because the overpass (and the square itself, but that's another topic) is a vestige of when Cordova west of Granville was just an alley leading to the rail yard and not the major pedestrian thoroughfare directly outside the region's primary transit hub it is today. Removing it would allow a crosswalk on the west side of the intersection and dramatically improve the pedestrian experience along Granville.

Though removing it would remove the accessible access to Granville Square so a new ramp would need to be carved out of the parkade. I assume the city owns the overpass, I wonder if there are any legal covenants on it's existence.


https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...-harbour-house

[madog222]

While I have these pictures pulled up, viaduct construction in '83 in front of what would soon become the Sinclair Centre. Images link to full res.


https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...ont-via-duct-8


https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...ont-via-duct-6


https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...nt-via-duct-10


https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...ont-via-duct-3

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by madog222

Removing it would allow a crosswalk on the west side of the intersection and dramatically improve the pedestrian experience along Granville.

That would be the most meaningless crosswalk out there and the parkade ramp would prevent it from being built. Removing the overpass would be just as stupid as removing the one in Metrotown was. Absolutely no benefit and a way worse pedestrian and accessibility experience.

[jollyburger]

One of them connects the busiest shopping mall in the province with a major Skytrain station. This doesn't even come close to that pedestrian traffic.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Absolutely no benefit and a way worse pedestrian and accessibility experience.

Far more pedestrians walk along Granville and Cordova to Waterfront Station than cross the overpass to Granville Square. The support columns for the overpass are situated in the middle of the sidewalks on both sides of Cordova which really hurts accessibility. I challenge you to push a stroller or roll a large suitcase or maneuver a wheelchair around those columns and still think removing them would make for a "way worse... accessibility experience." I am not sure that a crosswalk on the west side of Granville is necessary or a good idea given the parking garage ramp, but eliminating those columns is reason enough to remove the overpass IMO.

Also, I may be off on my history but weren't the overpass and Granville Square supposed to be the first step of a project to build a deck over and redevelop most of Gastown? In that case, the square and overpass are the remnants of a plan that never came to fruition and are sorta useless at this point.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

One of them connects the busiest shopping mall in the province with a major Skytrain station. This doesn't even come close to that pedestrian traffic.

And a very busy bus exchange.

And the Metrotown overpass was not removed so if there were any benefits to the areas below in removing the overpass (there wouldn't be, since the columns don't obstruct anything on the north side of Central and the columns on the south side are placed on a very, very wide sidewalk that doesn't need more space) they haven't been realized.

[officedweller]

Thanks for the Larco info.

WRT the overpass - I forgot that it's also a firetruck access route to the Granville Square plaza (for fires in the tower), but the question on whether it's needed is whether the fire dept would actually use it.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Go chain yourself it to stop the demolition

Sounds like that's the only way you know how to protest: chain yourself to something.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

One of them connects the busiest shopping mall in the province with a major Skytrain station. This doesn't even come close to that pedestrian traffic.

This one connects a very busy downtown thoroughfare to the busiest transportation hub in Vancouver, as well as a plaza with one of the best elevated views, without having to cross a couple of busy roads.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes. absolutely! You got it. Leave the Sinclair Centre alone. Putting buildings on top of it will only detract from it, nothing else.

The only sentence that makes a lot of sense to me here.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The newest renderings of the wood frame tower

I can't find the original link these images came from.

Can you give us the link please?

The closest thing I found is this:
https://www.links-to-learning.ca/dow...tion-plans.pdf
Which gives us the information:

• Redevelopment of the site for use by the federal government
• Substantial reduction in federal leased space
• Will become the anchor location for federal services in the downtown area
• Project approved to proceed as a Public/Private Partnership (P3)

This seems to be a preliminary conceptual rendering with very little showing the other heritage buildings at ground level.
They might still preserve the facades of all the buildings (even though it shows I think the Public Building being demolished.)

Surprised they went with wood-frame though, since those don't work well with viewcones (wood-frames are taller/floor.)

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I can't find the original link these images came from.

Can you give us the link please?

That was the link I found the images from. Some government employee working on the project mentioned mass timber for the redevelopment on their Linked in last year I believe. Their footprint is so large I don't think they really care about the floor heights.

If it's around 350 feet and with 30 storeys it's around 12 feet ceilings

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Far more pedestrians walk along Granville and Cordova to Waterfront Station than cross the overpass to Granville Square. The support columns for the overpass are situated in the middle of the sidewalks on both sides of Cordova which really hurts accessibility.

What you guys are describing is so minute, that it doesn't even qualify as a first world problem. The south side has plenty of space for everyone and is never busy. I do agree that the two columns on the north side actually make for a small bottleneck, but it is often made worse by buskers, merchants and beggers taking sidewalk space.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Wf3uMGp4WPXwmKjy8

The "problem" is either solved by keeping the sidewalk clear or extending the sidewalk over the merge road lane. Not take out the whole overpass because of some crazy talk.

Now, if there is one REAL problem in the area, it is the parkade entrace next door, which is a gong show due to idiot pedestrians.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

What you guys are describing is so minute, that it doesn't even qualify as a first world problem. The south side has plenty of space for everyone and is never busy. I do agree that the two columns on the north side actually make for a small bottleneck, but it is often made worse by buskers, merchants and beggers taking sidewalk space.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Wf3uMGp4WPXwmKjy8

The "problem" is either solved by keeping the sidewalk clear or extending the sidewalk over the merge road lane. Not take out the whole overpass because of some crazy talk.

Now, if there is one REAL problem in the area, it is the parkade entrace next door, which is a gong show due to idiot pedestrians.

The solution to both the blocked sidewalks and the parkade entrance should come from the revised Hub study that Council have requested. Even if building over the tracks is compromised because of the dangerous cargo wagons stored on the sidings, there's some development potential that Cadillac Fairview should be keen to explore. Normalizing the street crossing and lights, replacing the parkade and extending Granville Street north as part of the design, and developing around Granville Square and the back of the station should all be possible.