Downtown Ottawa Revitalization Initiatives

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

“Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” Yes, statistics can be produced to prove anything that you want.

On the ‘42% of households in the Central and Inner Area don’t own a personal vehicle’ stat that you used; that area is made up, in a big part, by the two biggest universities that are in Ottawa. And, pulling more numbers from that Website, 48% of households earning under $30,000 per year have no vehicle. Most university students would, likely, fall into this ‘low-earner’ category. Ergo, I would certainly expect students to tilt the statistics. That is why I said that grocery stores exist along Rideau Street – because there is a high density of (more or less) captive customers.

Now for the other side of the stat: if 42% of households within the area do not own a vehicle, then 58% DO own at least one vehicle. However, I was talking about the downtown area, of course, not the area that you brought forth the statistic for. Your area extends down to Heron Road, between Prince of Wales and the Rideau River, so, again, the number is skewed in favour of non-ownership because of the student population of Carleton U. being included. I suspect that if students from the two universities were removed, the statistic would look very different.

That said, perhaps I over-stated things when I said that “almost all” living downtown have a car. I’m willing to modify my statement, with input from your ‘correction’, to ‘MOST households in downtown have access to at least one vehicle’.

As for people in Centretown/Downtown/Sandy Hill preferring to stay in their neighbourhood, I would agree with that. Most people, even suburbanites, would, likely, prefer to stay in their neighbourhood also – if they could get everything they wanted from within the area. That is not surprising. HOWEVER, it is obvious that people living in the core currently DO leave their neighbourhood for the necessities of life. For example, there is no Costco downtown for those Re residents to go to – they must drive to a suburban location to get their 48-pk of toilet paper.

If it were economically advantageous for a ‘big box’ store to open downtown, it would have happened. As long as people from that area are willing to travel to an area outside of their neighbourhood, corporations will take advantage of that and built the biggest, cheapest, ‘box’ that they can and simply have their customers travel to it.

I'm not sure that university students actually count as "households" in the census data, but I can't find anything definitive. In any event, I'm not sure why university students without cars wouldn't count as people who need to access services nearby.

As someone who lives in a core neighbourhood and doesn't go to Costco (because Costco and smaller homes don't really mix), I can assure you that lots of people do not leave the neighbourhood regularly to head to the suburbs for groceries etc., either because they can't or won't on principle (me). My non-scientific estimate would be that a large majority shop locally.

You are absolutely right that it isn't economically viable to build a big box store downtown, but land value is only part of the reason for that. Not insignificant is a tax system that encourages land-intensive development in far-flung locations, and partly due to the fact that we spend an exorbitant amount of public money building and maintaining the massive road infrastructure that is required for those stores. Change the policies that create those factors and I think that the equation changes enough to make downtown stores competitive.

In no world are we a better city because urban residents have to drive (or gulp, take transit) to the suburbs for basic needs. We should be doing everything we can to stop that from happening. The idea that everyone prefers to shop in a big box store and give up a bunch of their time to save $5.00 doesn't make sense to me. Though admittedly I am basically terrified of Costco.

[lrt's friend]

Why have so many types of retail left the downtown area? I can remember multiple hardware and furniture stores downtown, and of course, multiple movie theatres. There was even a Canadian Tire right downtown until fairly recently.

The departures have in part been because they cannot compete with suburban superstores or megaplex theatres, and because of increasing urban rent, and high property values have made repurposing the locations into offices and more recently condos more advantageous.

It may be possible to get an urban Walmart or Ikea, but this requires enormous population densities likely not achievable in a mid-sized city like Ottawa. I wouldn't count on this possibility.

The farmer's market portion of the Byward Market has failed big time during the pandemic. This is part of long-term trend over decades. My family had a stall at the market at one time. Grocery retail distribution to make supermarkets and more recently superstores as profitable as possible have gradually locked out local farmers, so most have quit over time. There is almost no market gardeners around the fringe of the city anymore. The city not so long ago was surrounded by orchards, vegetable growers and greenhouses bringing the freshest produce to the market. No more. People have been trained well to consider price over quality. Tasteless tomatoes or apples are better. But the pandemic was the last nail in the coffin. No more workers to pick up produce at lunch or on the way home. So, how could there possibly be a successful business plan as a result for those who must make their income over a fairly short season.

I spoke to one of the few remaining growers who gave up their stall when the market became a no-go zone and a ghost town during the pandemic. He told me that while it became impossible to conduct business in the Byward Market, sales were booming at his suburban location. Will he go back? I doubt it.

How do we revitalize downtown? That is a complex issue. There have been long-term trends working against downtown, which will be difficult to reverse. The WFH issue has made a further dramatic shift of business to the suburbs.

It is going to be difficult to reverse this and there will be a lot business leaving downtown. We need to find ways to make downtown a place to go. Of course, more people need to live there, but that is not enough. There have to be more reasons to go downtown, new reasons. We need to make it easier to get downtown as well. While we continue to close streets downtown to traffic, our alternative, the Confederation Line has been a dramatic failure so far. Nevertheless, it can never be enough, one route to downtown is not enough. That is not how great European cities work, even those the size of Ottawa.

[lrt's friend]

We have all seen the outcome from students having classes at home. It works for some, it has been a disaster for others. The political pressure to re-open schools, colleges and universities for in-person classes has been incredible. And what happened? They re-opened. I have directly spoken to students whose experiences with classes at home was terrible. Some quit university as a result. Hopefully, they return and this does not damage their life-long future.

But I guess students are a different species from adults in the workforce.

Now, before everybody gets on my back again. I said that I see value in Zoom conferences and WFH to some extent, but I go back to my original comment some months ago, that I found it shocking that 48% of PS workers were still 'exclusively' working from home. Hopefully, that has since changed.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have all seen the outcome from students having classes at home. It works for some, it has been a disaster for others. The political pressure to re-open schools, colleges and universities for in-person classes has been incredible. And what happened? They re-opened. I have directly spoken to students whose experiences with classes at home was terrible. Some quit university as a result. Hopefully, they return and this does not damage their life-long future.

But I guess students are a different species from adults in the workforce.

Now, before everybody gets on my back again. I said that I see value in Zoom conferences and WFH to some extent, but I go back to my original comment some months ago, that I found it shocking that 48% of PS workers were still 'exclusively' working from home. Hopefully, that has since changed.

I agree WFH is horrible except for a few maybe some solitary activities and/or work done by mostly introverted people and/or who are highly motivated.

All that said University is about the experience for many whereas work is still about the output at least for the employer. I don't care if my passport worker or CRA employee have water cooler breaks I just want them to get results.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We have all seen the outcome from students having classes at home. It works for some, it has been a disaster for others. The political pressure to re-open schools, colleges and universities for in-person classes has been incredible. And what happened? They re-opened. I have directly spoken to students whose experiences with classes at home was terrible. Some quit university as a result. Hopefully, they return and this does not damage their life-long future.

But I guess students are a different species from adults in the workforce.

A key difference is that students wanted to go back to school/university and feel they learn better that way. Plus, there's actual evidence instead of supposition that remote learning is less effective with children. That's not the case with employees in many types of roles. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Now, before everybody gets on my back again. I said that I see value in Zoom conferences and WFH to some extent, but I go back to my original comment some months ago, that I found it shocking that 48% of PS workers were still 'exclusively' working from home. Hopefully, that has since changed.

We're seeing a paradigm shift - the pandemic probably moved us forward a decade or more on the digital workplace. As a Canadian, I'm glad that the PS will likely reap huge financial benefit from reducing office demand, freeing up resources for, you know, programs Canadians actually care about.

Anecdotally, I feel more productive, as do most who do primarily autonomous work. The exceptions are the colleagues who enjoy watercooler conversations more than they loathe commuting.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

A key difference is that students wanted to go back to school/university and feel they learn better that way. Plus, there's actual evidence instead of supposition that remote learning is less effective with children. That's not the case with employees in many types of roles. Simple as that.



We're seeing a paradigm shift - the pandemic probably moved us forward a decade or more on the digital workplace. As a Canadian, I'm glad that the PS will likely reap huge financial benefit from reducing office demand, freeing up resources for, you know, programs Canadians actually care about.

Anecdotally, I feel more productive, as do most who do primarily autonomous work. The exceptions are the colleagues who enjoy watercooler conversations more than they loathe commuting.

Just remember if your job can be done from home it can also be done from Manila or Bangalore.

[ars]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Just remember if your job can be done from home it can also be done from Manila or Bangalore.

Speaking for software development and tech in general, this is not true and is just fear mongering, otherwise all of these companies would have already moved shop to countries with lower wages.

Ignoring the very real timezone nightmare of dealing with teams overseas, there are also security, regulation and/or quality implications when it comes to offloading or moving work overseas. Parts of the software product can be worked on overseas, and that shift already happened long before covid was even a thing(remember, these companies are looking for any way to cut costs).

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by ars

Speaking for software development and tech in general, this is not true and is just fear mongering, otherwise all of these companies would have already moved shop to countries with lower wages.

Ignoring the very real timezone nightmare of dealing with teams overseas, there are also security, regulation and/or quality implications when it comes to offloading or moving work overseas. Parts of the software product can be worked on overseas, and that shift already happened long before covid was even a thing(remember, these companies are looking for any way to cut costs).

I work in tech and this is exactly right.

[originalmuffins]

Lol what a ridiculous and useless consistent regurgitation of the same things. Same people constantly griping about WFH and the modern workplace daily.

Daily.

Regardless of information or viewpoints presented, the same conversations take place. It comes up on multiple threads with the same garbage rhetoric with zero back up and the dumb perception of just federal workers demanding this (FYI, it's private sector as well). It's getting supremely annoying to hear so I'm going to be taking a break. Have fun.

I'm sure the dream of Ottawa continuing to stay in the past will stay as long as everyone wants.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Lol what a ridiculous and useless consistent regurgitation of the same things. Same people constantly griping about WFH and the modern workplace daily.

Daily.

Regardless of information or viewpoints presented, the same conversations take place. It comes up on multiple threads with the same garbage rhetoric with zero back up and the dumb perception of just federal workers demanding this (FYI, it's private sector as well). It's getting supremely annoying to hear so I'm going to be taking a break. Have fun.

I'm sure the dream of Ottawa continuing to stay in the past will stay as long as everyone wants.

The comments that you seem to disdain are just personal opinions on a comment board. Your comments are also a personal opinion, despite your apparent absolute certainty that your opinion is the correct one. Not sure why the need to belittle and disrespect.

[ars]

As an introvert who loves the current WFH trend because I don’t have to waste hours and money commuting every week and have the flexibility to make my own schedule, a big no thanks to being forced back into the office. I actually switched companies because my old Kanata-based company was going to force people to come back into the office(which is not helping the downtown core at all if I may add). My current company has an optional hybrid policy where you can come into the office if you want but you will never be forced to, and a lot of people who don’t have a good working space at home choose to come in regularly. It’s a win-win for all sides because the employer can save costs by reducing their real estate as well.

Revitalizing downtown by forcing people back into offices is a crutch and a band-aid solution that doesn’t actually solve the real problem that there isn’t much to do downtown outside of 9-5 on weekdays. The Sens coming to Lebreton might help, but even Lebreton isn’t super-accessible to and from the downtown core. If you look at some of the most vibrant downtowns in the world, a lot of them revolve around amenities and communities that are difficult to recreate in suburbs(open air markets, world class restaurants and entertainment, tourists, high end hotels, architecture and nature).

FWIW, I think Shopify becoming digital only hurt downtown more than suburban dwelling government workers working from home. Even if you force people back into the office, the type of companies you need downtown are the trendy companies and startups that will have a younger crowd of employees living downtown within walking distance of the office.

[rocketphish]

Foot traffic steadily rising in Ottawa and other Canadian cities, new data shows

By: The Canadian Press
Oct 6, 2022 10:36pm EDT

As Canada moves out of the COVID-19 pandemic era, new data from commercial real estate firm Avison Young shows Ottawa leads the country in increased foot traffic as more people return to the office, shop in-store, head back to class, and venture out for events.

The latest data comes from the firm's refreshed Vitality Index, which tracks weekly foot traffic in North America across industries such as the office sector, retail, hospitality and tourism, food services, and colleges and universities.

Since Ontario lifted pandemic restrictions in May, foot traffic in the nation’s capital is up 105 per cent as of the week of Sept. 19, making it the best-performing Canadian city when isolating these time periods. Toronto, by comparison, is up 80 per cent.

Data for the week of Sept. 19 shows Ottawa is the fourth-best performing market among all North American cities since the week preceding the first pandemic lockdown in March 2020, with foot traffic up 20 per cent when isolating those dates.

Edmonton leads all cities surveyed with an increase of 51 per cent, while Calgary increased by 23 per cent and Montreal rose by 11 per cent.

According to the Vitality Index, education and retail properties reported some of the strongest foot traffic increases across the country when isolating these time periods.

Since this past Labour Day weekend, Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary have been the most active, up 13.6 per cent, 13.4 per cent and 13.2 per cent respectively, as of the week of Sept. 19.

Avison Young CEO Mark Rose says this is a moment in time where culture is driving foot traffic patterns, as foot traffic has shown to be highest on weekends for leisure activities, such as shopping, sporting events and concerts, yet lower on weekdays, which correlates with office work and the hybrid work model many companies have adopted.

The data comes as other studies suggest Ottawa is lagging behind other big Canadian cities when it comes to workers returning to the office in a post-pandemic world.

A Statistics Canada survey from earlier this year revealed that nearly 46 per cent of Ottawa’s labour force was still working from home, the highest rate in the country. By comparison, in Toronto just 35 per cent of workers were staying home.

In addition, Ottawa also finished far down the list in a joint study between the University of Toronto and the University of California, Berkeley that compared mobile device usage in 62 major North American cities at downtown sites like bars and restaurants between March and May of this year and the same time period in 2019.

The researchers found that downtown Ottawa had returned to only 48 per cent of pre-pandemic levels of activity, placing it 46th overall.

– With additional reporting from OBJ staff


https://www.obj.ca/article/local/foo...new-data-shows

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ars

If you look at some of the most vibrant downtowns in the world, a lot of them revolve around amenities and communities that are difficult to recreate in suburbs(open air markets, world class restaurants and entertainment, tourists, high end hotels, architecture and nature).

I do think that we sell our downtown short a little bit. Maybe you are just considering Centretown, but we do have a world class museum (National Gallery), the NAC for entertainment, an exisitng open air market and some pretty great architecture in the parliamentary precinct. Also some high end hotels and great restaurants (Beckta, Riviera, North and Navy for instance plus lots in the Market and on Elgin). Most of the elements of a vibrant downtown are there, they just tend to be on the periphery of the office district.

To me a key would be to focus on Bank St., which has lots of potential to be a vibrant, walkable street like Elgin and to start linking the things that are there. The upgrades on Queen St., and introduction of Queen St. Fare are a beginning. With all of the new condos/apartments coming on line this year and next, you certainly have an expanding local market.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

I do think that we sell our downtown short a little bit. Maybe you are just considering Centretown, but we do have a world class museum (National Gallery), the NAC for entertainment, an exisitng open air market and some pretty great architecture in the parliamentary precinct. Also some high end hotels and great restaurants (Beckta, Riviera, North and Navy for instance plus lots in the Market and on Elgin). Most of the elements of a vibrant downtown are there, they just tend to be on the periphery of the office district.

To me a key would be to focus on Bank St., which has lots of potential to be a vibrant, walkable street like Elgin and to start linking the things that are there. The upgrades on Queen St., and introduction of Queen St. Fare are a beginning. With all of the new condos/apartments coming on line this year and next, you certainly have an expanding local market.

I am very much an introvert as well, but I am so thankful that my 'new' job required me to work with others in person even at the height of the pandemic in 2020. I now work in retail services that requires me to work in person and with customers. Even for me, there are limits to being alone all the time. I have seen many people sink into a funk where their lives have become dominated by a fear of getting any virus. This has looked very unhealthy. I could see that this could have happened to me if I was not forced to be out there to some degree. I think we are looking for reasonable compromises in the work environment. I have to wonder whether agoraphobia has grown during the pandemic? I often commented to friends that we started looking at everybody with suspicion and as potential walking viruses. This still applies today as the inevitable expansion of the virus has hit more and more people. Covid has become like the common cold in its spread amongst the population and our inability to stop it.

On your specific comments, what you say is mostly true. The problem is the shockwave of WFH. Many businesses have been just hanging on, hoping that things will get better. The smallest businesses downtown will be gone soon, if they are not already. I don't know how we can avoid this entirely. Turning around downtown again will not happen over night.

We need a plan to revitilize downtown on a number of fronts. If commuters are not coming back in full force (which I understand and accept), then we need to make it easier to get downtown and treat it as a 24/7 destination and work towards that. This means improved transit connections and improved cycling infrastructure. What we have created on the transit side is not good enough and is too focused on only the Confederation Line.

I recall my visit to Gothenburg in Sweden, a mid-sized city to see how diverse transit can animate downtown, and make it the meeting place for residents, which should be our goal.

We really fail when the main meeting places has become suburban Walmart superstores, Home Depot and Costco.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by phil235

The comments that you seem to disdain are just personal opinions on a comment board. Your comments are also a personal opinion, despite your apparent absolute certainty that your opinion is the correct one. Not sure why the need to belittle and disrespect.

Yeah kind of sad really. I have a pretty strong opinion against WFH from what I saw of my coworkers and subordinates and more generally the drop off in productivity of corporate service. That said several comments here have made some points that made me think about the other side of the issue and certainly for some industries it certainly makes sense.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I have a pretty strong opinion against WFH from what I saw of my coworkers and subordinates and more generally the drop off in productivity of corporate service.

Just to pick up on this point because it's not the first time it's been raised here: managers need to manage employees whether they're slacking off at home or slacking off in the office. It's lazy for managers to place the blame on telework for their failure to motivate their employees and manage their performance.

At least in my line of work, I've not observed any reduction in my colleagues' performance and engagement despite being fully remote.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Lol what a ridiculous and useless consistent regurgitation of the same things. Same people constantly griping about WFH and the modern workplace daily.

Daily.

Regardless of information or viewpoints presented, the same conversations take place. It comes up on multiple threads with the same garbage rhetoric with zero back up and the dumb perception of just federal workers demanding this (FYI, it's private sector as well). It's getting supremely annoying to hear so I'm going to be taking a break. Have fun.

I'm sure the dream of Ottawa continuing to stay in the past will stay as long as everyone wants.

I think we all know WFH has it's positives, but I think we all need to stop being armchair quarterbacks thinking we know what is best for every workplace, including different federal government departments. Leave it up to those in charge (managers, directors, etc) to decide when to go back in person and how much of a hybrid model they think best suits their teams. It's cringy hearing so many people praising the virtues of WFH when they often have a vested interest in remaining at home. For example, I had an insane debate with a patient last week who didn't want to go back to 2 days per week in person due to COVID "safety concerns". Wanted me to write her a note. I told her that there is no medical indication to stay home and she needed to discuss this with her boss. If they can't come to a consensus maybe she needs to find another place of work. Meanwhile, I know she moved far outside the city in 2020 when things went virtual and is now regretting that decision now that things are getting back to (new) normal. Anyway, we can debate until we are blue in the face but, in the end, it's up to employers/bosses to determine what's next and this is going to have a huge impact on the sustainability of our downtown core for the next 20 years.

[JayBuoy]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I think we all know WFH has it's positives, but I think we all need to stop being armchair quarterbacks thinking we know what is best for every workplace, including different federal government departments. Leave it up to those in charge (managers, directors, etc) to decide when to go back in person and how much of a hybrid model they think best suits their teams. It's cringy hearing so many people praising the virtues of WFH when they often have a vested interest in remaining at home. For example, I had an insane debate with a patient last week who didn't want to go back to 2 days per week in person due to COVID "safety concerns". Wanted me to write her a note. I told her that there is no medical indication to stay home and she needed to discuss this with her boss. If they can't come to a consensus maybe she needs to find another place of work. Meanwhile, I know she moved far outside the city in 2020 when things went virtual and is now regretting that decision now that things are getting back to (new) normal. Anyway, we can debate until we are blue in the face but, in the end, it's up to employers/bosses to determine what's next and this is going to have a huge impact on the sustainability of our downtown core for the next 20 years.

Vested interest? That is a strange way to say it. Everyone is looking out for their own best interest, and the vast majority of office workers have determined that means WFH. Your phrasing implies they should not have any influence over the location of their work. While current collective agreements in the public service stipulate that the employer is free to determine the location of work, that does not mean it can't or won't change in the near future. Depending on the union and bargaining unit, permanent WFH could be in talks right now, despite rhetoric from the privy council and upper management. It would not be unprecedented. Some Bell corporate workers inked a new collective agreement guaranteeing WFH, less than a year ago.

Workers should have a say in the conditions of their employment, including location.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I think we all know WFH has it's positives, but I think we all need to stop being armchair quarterbacks thinking we know what is best for every workplace, including different federal government departments. Leave it up to those in charge (managers, directors, etc) to decide when to go back in person and how much of a hybrid model they think best suits their teams. It's cringy hearing so many people praising the virtues of WFH when they often have a vested interest in remaining at home. For example, I had an insane debate with a patient last week who didn't want to go back to 2 days per week in person due to COVID "safety concerns". Wanted me to write her a note. I told her that there is no medical indication to stay home and she needed to discuss this with her boss. If they can't come to a consensus maybe she needs to find another place of work. Meanwhile, I know she moved far outside the city in 2020 when things went virtual and is now regretting that decision now that things are getting back to (new) normal. Anyway, we can debate until we are blue in the face but, in the end, it's up to employers/bosses to determine what's next and this is going to have a huge impact on the sustainability of our downtown core for the next 20 years.

Interesting. I am surprised there is so little sympathy for those claiming safety concerns. It seems like we will be re-starting other restrictions. If Covid is still something we need to contain surely a public servant can stay home for 2 days a week which I find punitive as either a job can be done from home effectively or it can't no?

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

It's cringy hearing so many people praising the virtues of WFH when they often have a vested interest in remaining at home.

It's strange to me that employees seeking respect and recognition as a key stakeholder in arbitrary-seeming RTO decisions—considering that commuting imposes direct costs to employees' time and finances—are belittled here as a vested interests, while the loudest voices calling for RTO, who are literally seeking to volunteer other peoples' time and money into supporting some businesses over others, are given a free pass.

Telework isn't going away. Instead of pinning hopes on re-creating yesterday's market, Ottawa should move to diversify downtown away from the 9-5 worker. Long-term downtown revitalization lies there.