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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 10:53 AM
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mykl View Post
1200 units = 3 buildings, ~33 floors, 12 units per floor. very doable.
No way to get 12 units per floor unless they proposed mostly studios and jr. 1 bedroom units which would not get approved. The city is getting much stricter regarding the 750m2 tower floor plate.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 1:37 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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I'm aligned with this proposal and there's several pros in my opinion.
-addition of residential (both condo & rentals) will help make this area even more lively 24/7 vs. purely on weekends & event days
-intensification
-the new podium would be set back a bit more than current retail on north stands (better street-level and sidewalk than what is currently there).
-New event centre

Especially if this doesn't cost city/public money, not sure why the City would deny it. My only concerns are the lack of roofing structure on new north stands making it entirely subject to weather. And if they build that event centre on the end, does that prevent us from ever expanding/building temporary seating on that end if a larger event or Grey Cup were to come to Ottawa? Can't really expand or provide temp seating on the other end since it's so tight.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
Other than the end, I don't know where the arena would fit. The existing design is terrible for an arena, and building more traditional stacked football stands with an arena adjacent would require team relocation and prevent housing from being added, which will fund the project.

I think events like Cityfolk and Escapade are potentially the biggest losers here.
Yeah, I don't have a better idea as to where the arena could be located. And I do think that it is important to keep the current arena open during construction. If we were starting from scratch, there would have been an opportunity to put it right along the street, but that ship has sailed. I'd just like them to provide more detail on how this affects the festival area and how much of the lawn will disappear.
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 2:21 PM
UrbOttawa UrbOttawa is offline
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I like how this was the rendering/design that they chose to "wow" the public with. The bar for design in this city is so incredibly low.

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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 2:58 PM
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I like how this was the rendering/design that they chose to "wow" the public with. The bar for design in this city is so incredibly low.

What's the issue?
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 3:07 PM
OTSkyline OTSkyline is offline
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Podium, street-level, set-backs, lots of glass, skybridge, signage.

If this render were to materialize it would be a nice addition to Ottawa & Lansdowne and miles ahead of other developments going up in this city.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 3:23 PM
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Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
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Oh, but the wind tunnel. Won't anybody think of what that does to a football? The poor thing.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
Oh, but the wind tunnel. Won't anybody think of what that does to a football? The poor thing.
All kick offs awarded to the home team, using loaded coins and said wind tunnel.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 7:11 PM
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So... what if Minto/OSEG buy the Senators? Then what happens to this smaller arena?
Or would they want to put in an 18,000 seat arena at Landsdowne (that might be a nightmare)? I can't see them pushing for 2 new arenas?
If they remove the arena from Landsdowne (in favour of Lebreton or wherever), the economics for the site will be all messed up
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tesladom View Post
So... what if Minto/OSEG buy the Senators? Then what happens to this smaller arena?
Or would they want to put in an 18,000 seat arena at Landsdowne (that might be a nightmare)? I can't see them pushing for 2 new arenas?
If they remove the arena from Landsdowne (in favour of Lebreton or wherever), the economics for the site will be all messed up
They build an 17-18k arena at LeBreton and keep Lansdowne as a smaller venue for OHL, smaller concerts, events, etc.... I feel like there's a market for shows and events in the 5000 seat range in Ottawa. If anything, a new 5000 venue plus a bigger 18k venue at LeBreton probably opens the door to a lot more events in the city, especially if they're both central.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
They build an 17-18k arena at LeBreton and keep Lansdowne as a smaller venue for OHL, smaller concerts, events, etc.... I feel like there's a market for shows and events in the 5000 seat range in Ottawa. If anything, a new 5000 venue plus a bigger 18k venue at LeBreton probably opens the door to a lot more events in the city, especially if they're both central.
Definitely, the facilities are not mutually exclusive. A 17,000 seat arena won't fit at Lansdowne and it doesn't really work for the 67s and definitely doesn't work for the Blackjacks. I actually think that the 5000 seat arena would be the busier of the two, as there are more concerts/comedy shows/events that need that size of arena. It also helps attract multi-venue events like the world juniors, and would likely draw conventions to the extent that they are allowed to under the agreement with the EY Centre. Ottawa is big enough to support both facilities.

Presumably that's why OSEG is looking to proceed with this plan even with the Lebreton arena still to be decided.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 10:09 PM
mykl mykl is offline
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
No way to get 12 units per floor unless they proposed mostly studios and jr. 1 bedroom units which would not get approved. The city is getting much stricter regarding the 750m2 tower floor plate.
Alright, 3 buildings, 44 floors, 9 units per floor averaging about 900 sqft each (not accounting for hallways, elevators, stairs). Easily doable.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jt-mtl View Post
I have a feeling the NIMBYs will be planning to protest this
Which NIMBYs? They're replacing a stadium with a stadium, and adding residential to an area where there are already tower(s).

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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
I actually think that the 5000 seat arena would be the busier of the two, as there are more concerts/comedy shows/events that need that size of arena.
From what I know the arena at Lansdowne was far easier to book than the stadium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
It also helps attract multi-venue events like the world juniors, and would likely draw conventions to the extent that they are allowed to under the agreement with the EY Centre. Ottawa is big enough to support both facilities.

Presumably that's why OSEG is looking to proceed with this plan even with the Lebreton arena still to be decided.
Yes. It opens up a more obvious (and easier) dual bid process for many events, including the World U20s. They can basically bid for a bunch of one-off events and have arenas for either larger-scale or smaller-scale. Great flexibility without having to trek out to Kanata.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 12:12 AM
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Joanne Chianello was literally laughing in a sort of bemused disgust at the idea of Icon sized buildings at Lansdowne this morning on CBC Radio 1, which would be needed to fit 1200 units into three towers there. Just another example of how small minded Ottawa is. I drove the length of the 407 yesterday and I was thinking Icon wouldn't even be noticed in Vaughan, and more recently in Markham. Those are just the newest TOD's with height in the GTA. Icon would be completely lost in Etobicoke, Scarborough, Mississauga, North York, etc, but in the fourth largest city in Canada it's some kind of standard of 'enormous' and 'too tall'?
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 12:25 AM
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I guarantee you that certain people in all those places you mentioned said Chianello-like things about all those towers too.

Let them huff and puff. Things are getting built regardless.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 6:43 AM
originalmuffins originalmuffins is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
First off, this strikes down many of our Sens-67s LeBreton arena speculation.

That said, I like the proposal to bury the arena east of the stadium, with entrances both on the Canal side and Lansdowne. Wonder if shipping and receiving will all be done via the underground garage from the current ramp between the (now) Civic and office building.

Again though, I'm puzzled how they did not include a hotel component. The place would be booked solid all year considering the various sports teams and events.
I agree about the hotel, but they could easily have a component in one of the rental towers I think
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 6:47 AM
originalmuffins originalmuffins is offline
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Gotta say, there are some things that may need changes (like the roof for the north side). But overall, this is exactly what Lansdowne 1.0 should have had. There should have been these size of towers from before to maintain the area as lively.

It's a plan that is definitely doable. They just need to get started. I am definitely all for it.
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 11:41 AM
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Lansdowne Park analysis by the city suggests how it can afford a new $330M project
The Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group has released its proposal to build a new event centre arena and north-side stadium stands, along with 1,200 new residential units in towers.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Apr 28, 2022 • 12 hours ago • 4 minute read


The Lansdowne Park 2.0 proposal might make taxpayers do a double-take, considering all the details the city has provided in an analysis of another major redevelopment project.

After the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group released its proposal to build a new event centre arena and north-side stadium stands, along with the addition of 1,200 residential units in towers, the city on Wednesday night released its recommendations to council in a lengthy report that will be considered by the finance and economic development committee on May 6.

Here’s what stands out.

The money

The financial analysis is packed with assumptions underpinning the city’s affordability argument.

The city has established a rule that the next phase of redevelopment needs to pay for itself; in other words, the project alone can’t impact the taxes of property owners.

The city estimates construction will be $332.6 million.

Of that, the city would need to borrow $239 million, with future property taxes from the site, revenue from event ticket surcharges (at least $800,000 annually, the city says) and distributions from the Lansdowne agreement’s restructured financial scheme used to pay off the loan.

The total expected debt servicing cost is $13.8 million annually over 40 years.

Some major tweaks to the financial “waterfall” scheme will help the city afford it, the report says.

The waterfall sets out the priorities for distributing net cash flows to OSEG and the city.

In recent years, the city hasn’t been expecting to get anything because the waterfall allows OSEG’s equity to be returned first, and OSEG has been writing more and more cheques for the partnership. OSEG has paid $160 million for the Lansdowne project, $100 million more than it expected in 2012.

The city is proposing to change the waterfall so it receives cash distributions much earlier — after all, the city will need the money to pay for the Lansdowne 2.0 construction.

The city also wants council to approve another extension to the Lansdowne agreement with OSEG, this time by 12 years to Dec. 31, 2066.

The towers

The city figures the air rights in the area eyed for the residential towers are worth $43.5 million, based on 850,000 square feet of residential space.

However, the city won’t know how much developers are willing to pay until it takes bids on the air rights.

There’s also one important caveat included in the report. The water infrastructure can handle the redevelopment, “however, there are some limitations to the wastewater and stormwater capacity that could impact the air rights,” the report says.

The city will need to get planning approvals from council. A settlement with the community in 2011 to avoid a land-use appeal hearing meant the maximum number of homes at Lansdowne was set at 280. There will also be changes required to the land rules to allow more high rises.

Whoever buys the air rights will need to make sure 10 per cent of the units are “affordable,” which means the monthly rent can’t exceed Ottawa’s average market rent by unit type. The average is determined by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., the report says.

The park of Lansdowne Park

The city knows it needs to improve the urban park — that is, the heritage buildings, great lawn and gardens — but it’s not proposing changes yet. Instead, the city says it needs a master plan that sets aside capital funding for the projects. It will also require landscape architects.
Advertisement 6

The city says it should contribute between $1 million and $2 million each year for the next 10 years to a capital fund for the public realm of Lansdowne.

The report includes a list of 26 ideas that could cost $3.48 million. The ideas include more shade and outdoor seating, a grander entrance off Queen Elizabeth Driveway, more washrooms and a new play area.

The city is exploring if it should install climate control features in the Horticulture Building and the Aberdeen Pavilion.

When it comes to Aberdeen, the big knock against historic “Cattle Castle” is that it’s virtually unusable in extreme temperatures.

The first priority is protecting the structure. Repairing or replacing the leaky roof of the Aberdeen Pavilion is expected to cost more than the $6 million identified in future budgets, the report says.

Forever banning cars from Aberdeen Square, the area north of Aberdeen Pavilion, appears out of the question. The city says businesses need access for deliveries, but it’s looking into improvements for when it can close the area for special events.

The city has also identified $3.1 million in “connectivity” improvements for cyclists and pedestrians. The ideas will be open to consultation.

The timelines

OSEG has an “overly optimistic” timeline of beginning construction of a new event centre arena by November 2022, the report says.

In the city’s eyes, there are just too many approvals to nail down on the next phase of redevelopment at Lansdowne Park before shovels can go into the ground.

Council will need to approve rezoning and site plan applications, sell the air rights for the proposed residential towers, endorse new agreements with OSEG and receive updated project costs.

Plus, the plan requires public consultation.

The “best case” schedule would be starting a 23-month construction period in summer 2023, the report says. The north-side stands phase would likely start in summer 2025, instead of OSEG’s projection of December 2024.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...w-330m-project
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2022, 6:21 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Presumably that's why OSEG is looking to proceed with this plan even with the Lebreton arena still to be decided.
"Presumably "? Got some inside information there Phil?
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