Hamilton new Arena and Convention Centre

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by drpgq

If I remember the consultant report stats, didn't the Bulldogs basically make no money for the stadium while the other events generated all the revenue that there was for First Ontario?

In some ways I'm surprised the parking lot is even necessary given the colossal amounts of parking at the mall, but I guess a Saturday afternoon game would interfere with mall crowds and could potentially go over capacity.

If I recall the report right, the Bulldogs cost the city money to play there.

[thistleclub]

Here are two tweets from Clr @JohnPaulDanko (with snaps of the Andlauer proposal, with select annotations) that form some of the subtext to Andrew Dreschel's latest column:

https://twitter.com/JohnPaulDanko/st...44553332555777

https://twitter.com/JohnPaulDanko/st...77705045676032

[mikevbar1]

First look on twitter at some renderings..

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by mikevbar1

First look on twitter at some renderings..

The images are not showing.

This is from one of Danko's tweets thistleclub had posted (the scribblings are JP's annotations; he's wearing his heart on his Twitter-sleeve ... but he's quite right IMO). And it looks like cinema may return to Lime Ridge if an arena grows there!

[king10]

$90M public investment to get another movie theatre on the mountain. good ROI

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Pass.

[thmx]

source

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

(the scribblings are JP's annotations; he's wearing his heart on his Twitter-sleeve ... but he's quite right IMO).

Yes, I should have been more clear about the author of the annotations.

The $54 million, 1,800-cap parking garage hypothetical is the most far-fetched and least-funded aspect of the proposal:

“Bus transit which could be expanded with new parking garage to include partnership with Metrolinx to provide parking for residents to access West Harbour GO Station which today has only 300 parking spots”

• West Harbour averages 64 passengers daily, meaning at best, 80% of the station's existing parking spaces are empty.
• Metrolinx built a 1,000-space parking garage in Oakville in conjunction with the federal government. It cost $41.1M (CAD 2012). Using this per-space metric and applying inflation, an 1,800-space garage would come out at over $83M (CAD 2019).
• What incentive would potential users have to park at LRM, walk to the LRM transit terminal, wait for their bus connection, and ride the HSR 40-some minutes to make their early morning train connection, rather than just drive 15 minutes to West Harbour?

Globe & Mail, April 2018:

It costs up to $40,000 to build one parking spot at a GO train station, and most often, commuters pay nothing to use it. The agency that runs the transit service says this can’t go on.

After expanding parking at a breakneck pace for years, Metrolinx is hoping to slash the number of rail passengers who drive alone to the station by 40 per cent. Parking will be discouraged through price, while access to stations for those coming by foot, transit and bike will be improved. Also, more residential density around stations will be encouraged….

To encourage a change in habits, the agency is hoping to make walking, transit and cycling more attractive.

It’s a multifaceted approach that includes expanding bicycle infrastructure at stations, working with local bus providers to improve service and exploring carpooling and the on-demand transportation service often called micro-transit.

Charging for parking will also be part of it, though the agency seems likely to act gingerly here. GO fares have traditionally been based on a portion of the equivalent cost of driving. Increasing the cost by charging for parking threatens to convince some people simply to drive and many passengers view free parking as a given.

[ChildishGavino]

The only way a GO terminal at Lime Ridge would be at all viable is if Metrolinx intended to expand the network to the rest of Southern Ontario, which isn’t happening anytime soon.

With the new station being built on Centennial, not to mention a terminal expansion at McMaster in the works, there’s no reason to start sending busses up there. Not for a while anyways.

[thistleclub]

Oakville GO currently has the highest ridership of any GO station outside of Union — moving almost as many people a day as Hamilton GO Centre moves every 4 days or West Harbour GO moves in a year.

Oakville's boarding numbers made a case for additional parking capacity. That case does not exist in a vast surface lot that's rarely full.

Even LRM GO bus service would presumably tie into some larger plan, such as a Hamilton-Brantford route.

Council could just hang the whole agreement on the completion of a Metrolinx-funded parking garage and the arrival of a GO terminal at Lime Ridge. That'd buy them until 2041 or so.

[Jon Dalton]

So almost half the cost of an arena at Lime Ridge Mall will be for the parking. Why would the city pay for that when the objective is to 'eliminate the subsidy' and we're also trying to encourage more transit use? Because Andlauer needs it to make money? We would be paying $54M in exchange for $30M plus something we don't need, with the rest going to an arena that won't make money.

If we build or keep it downtown we don't need to build a parking garage because even though people would complain about having to park somewhere, there's a shitload of parking and plenty of transit options. Or if we do build a parking garage, it would be multi-purpose, serve all of downtown and possibly even recover the cost of building it.

[King&James]

I like the plan to build kitty corner to FOC , do 10,000 sq ft and convert FOC into an expanded convention centre. Not sure what happens to EF building, sell it and convert to hotel, move provincial office space to somewhere in JS.

[king10]

Originally Posted by King&James

I like the plan to build kitty corner to FOC , do 10,000 sq ft and convert FOC into an expanded convention centre. Not sure what happens to EF building, sell it and convert to hotel, move provincial office space to somewhere in JS.

10,000 seats

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by King&James

I like the plan to build kitty corner to FOC , do 10,000 sq ft and convert FOC into an expanded convention centre. Not sure what happens to EF building, sell it and convert to hotel, move provincial office space to somewhere in JS.

What do you mean by "EF building"? The diagonal block has the former SJAM school and a small co-generation power plant (which should be compatible with an arena)

[Gurnett71]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

What do you mean by "EF building"?

Think they mean the Ellen Fairclough Building.

[ScreamingViking]

Ah, that makes sense. I was thinking spaces only related to an arena move.

Re: the tower, the province does need local offices for various activities but perhaps they'd see savings in a move out and sale of the asset or reduction in their leased space if the city owns the building.

The existing convention centre could be sold and repurposed, but it could also remain as some kind of a private event facility; I think those spaces are in demand even if a larger new building comes on-line downtown. Much of it lies to the side of Fairclough though... so it may also be possible to demolish a large portion and build new on that site: https://goo.gl/maps/fdssSnhKENC9nEDs9

[King&James]

Originally Posted by Gurnett71

Think they mean the Ellen Fairclough Building.

Yes, thanks sorry for short form.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Re: the tower, the province does need local offices for various activities but perhaps they'd see savings in a move out and sale of the asset or reduction in their leased space if the city owns the building.

That site, entering off of what is essentially a subterranean tunnel, might be a hard sell. Government services are less sensitive to aesthetic considerations.

The municipality could amalgamate various downtown resources to within a block of City Hall.

It has a substantial footprint in the City Centre: Audit Services, By-Law, Budget & Taxes, Forestry, Horticulture, Licensing & Permits, Municipal Law Enforcement, Roads & Maintenance, & Waste Management all call 77 James North home.

If that building sells to be redeveloped, the City may be looking for somewhere new to hang their hat.

[King&James]

It's a bit of a dog's breakfast, but with some imagination and brick removal, the king street frontage could become animated again.

If FOC were converted to new convention centre, some great opportunities to introduce some residential to that footprint. JS needs a resident population.

[ScreamingViking]

Opening up the AGH to King made a big difference (nevermind the total makeover... she became a completely new building!)

As much as I appreciate many of Garwood-Jones' designs in the city, I really don't understand his penchant for hiding the entryways.