Confederation Line East LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Blair to Trim] | U/C

[ACmodels]

LRT to run along centre of 174....

uh man you have no idea what just came into my head...

[silvergate]

City of Ottawa in 10 years: Well we wanted people to ride the train, so we gave them a train. Why aren't they riding the train?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ACmodels

LRT to run along centre of 174....

uh man you have no idea what just came into my head...

1. Station is in no-mans land.
2. For the what, 5 people who use it, how the hell do they get from the station to the community on the left?

[1overcosc]

I don't see this as a problem. How is LRT in the middle of the highway any different from LRT on the edge? There'll be pedestrian connections to nearby roads, obviously. I don't see how this is any different from the Phase 1 from Tremblay to Blair which is right next to the 417 for example.

[silvergate]

I don't get how being 5 km away from rail is an actually relevant stat. How many people who are at the edge of a 5km radius are actually willing to travel that far to access that rail? You might as well drive at that point. People within 1km might make sense, but saying that x amount of people live within 5km of a train is utterly meaningless without supporting evidence showing how many of those people will ride the train.

[silvergate]

Also, Blais says that it will be expensive to build the rail due to proximity to houses and power lines - even though he says that they are already expanding the highway. Why not expand the highway into the median and the rail where the highway would go? How much impact would those things have if they left the highway as is and just built the rail beside it, right now?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I don't see this as a problem. How is LRT in the middle of the highway any different from LRT on the edge? There'll be pedestrian connections to nearby roads, obviously. I don't see how this is any different from the Phase 1 from Tremblay to Blair which is right next to the 417 for example.

I'm just talking about the picture itself, not the 174 LRT. I have no doubt the City will do what is necessary to connect the stations with the communities.

[ACmodels]

But I believe that's the reason why there is going to be no Station between Blair and Montreal R.D

[Kitchissippi]

So much for TOD. What little savings is going to be spent widening the overpasses so that buses can access the stations.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by silvergate

I don't get how being 5 km away from rail is an actually relevant stat. How many people who are at the edge of a 5km radius are actually willing to travel that far to access that rail? You might as well drive at that point. People within 1km might make sense, but saying that x amount of people live within 5km of a train is utterly meaningless without supporting evidence showing how many of those people will ride the train.

Park & Ride makes it a very relevant stat. There are three lots proposed at stations in Orleans. The Park & Ride system works very well currently, and will be even more appealing with the extra capacity of the rail system. I absolutely guarantee driving under 5km, parking, and getting on a train will get you downtown faster than driving during the morning rush from Orleans.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Park & Ride makes it a very relevant stat. There are three lots proposed at stations in Orleans. The Park & Ride system works very well currently, and will be even more appealing with the extra capacity of the rail system. I absolutely guarantee driving under 5km, parking, and getting on a train will get you downtown faster than driving during the morning rush from Orleans.

That makes more sense. Thanks!

[lrt's friend]

And again Ottawa chooses worst practices. It is well known that building rapid transit in the middle of a freeway generates the lowest ridership. Calgary realized this when they started building the Northwest line and moved further extensions to one side of the highway.

Everything becomes a long walk when you place transit in the middle of a freeway and note that this is to be coordinated with a highway widening. So the walk across the freeway becomes even longer. And how will bus transfers be convenient at Place d'Orleans? How does this really encourage TOD. It doesn't . Won't it be fun standing in the middle of the freeway on a cold windy January day?


And do we really want to encourage people to drive to Park n Ride lots? Note the 5km figure is distance to LRT, not distance to Park n Ride lots. If you live in Beacon Hill, where is the closest Park n Ride lot? And if we encourage this, how big of lots will we need? All at the expense of TOD. We won't be able to keep up with the demand as has been the case at certain locations in the city. This all has the sound of planners and politicians patting themselves on their backs. 5km is not a wonderful achievement.

Technically, my home and office are within this magic 5km distance of the O-Train but it is the same station which is within that distance of both. In other words, it is of no value at all.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

And again Ottawa chooses worst practices. It is well known that building rapid transit in the middle of a freeway generates the lowest ridership. Calgary realized this when they started building the Northwest line and moved further extensions to one side of the highway.

Everything becomes a long walk when you place transit in the middle of a freeway and note that this to be coordinated with a highway widening. So the walk across the freeway becomes even longer. And how will bus transfers be convenient at Place d'Orleans? How does this really encourage TOD. It doesn't . Won't it be fun standing in the middle of the freeway on a cold windy January day?


And do we really want to encourage people to drive to Park n Ride lots? Note the 5km figure is distance to LRT, not distance to Park n Ride lots. If you live in Beacon Hill, where is the closest Park n Ride lot? And if we encourage this, how big of lots will we need. We won't be able to keep up with the demand as has been the case at certain locations in the city. This all has the sound of planners and politicians patting themselves on their backs. 5km is not a wonderful achievement.

What is the alternative? Massive expropriation? Also the Calgary NW LRT is in the median of Crowchild Trail for its entire length from McMahon Stadium to its northwest terminus at Tuscany.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

What is the alternative? Massive expropriation? Also the Calgary NW LRT is in the median of Crowchild Trail for its entire length from McMahon Stadium to its northwest terminus at Tuscany.

I stand corrected. It is the north-east line that has been moved off the centre median of 36th Street Northeast for the latest extensions.

There is no need for any expropriation. Run the line down the south side of the 174. There is space there between the highway and the hydro corridor. At least this is a little closer to Place d'Orleans and other commercial development.

[Capital Shaun]

The LRT should be on the north side of the 174 in Beacon Hill (greenbelt on the other side) and on the south side of of the 174 in Orleans (closer to St-Joseph). But Ottawa being Ottawa will build what's cheapest: LRT in the median probably involves cheaper modifications to the highway and interchanges. God forbid we actually shift the 174 a few meters over to make room for LRT beside it.

[c_speed3108]

Having grown up in the east-end: It is what Orleans needs and wants.

Transit out there has a HUGE rush hour ridership that is based off of park and rider lots. If there is any deficiency in the idea, it is that they will need more lots or make the current ones bigger by expropriating nearby land.

The problem with Orleans is that the way it is setup residential and commercial are kept quite separate as well as the needs of families (hauling hockey gear around in the van type activities) is that you really need a car for weekend and household activities. The transit system is not at all setup for these activities...largely to design issues.

Consequently most people have cars and multiple of them. That doesn't mean they are not willing to ride things that are fast and convenient to work. They do, and they are more than willing to drive the car they all ready have to the train station rather than have to worry, wait for and otherwise deal with infrequent local bus routes.


As for the up the middle thing it is also not a big deal. Already at Place D'Orleans the park and ride is on one side of the highway and the station on the other. A train up the middle would only be halfway :-)

[rocketphish]

City seeks public feedback on east LRT route

Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 26, 2015Last Updated: January 26, 2015 7:50 PM EST

Members of the public will have a chance in the coming weeks to offer the city their views on how the eastern LRT should be aligned.

City officials announced Monday they will hold three open houses in early February to allow public feedback on a preferred alignment for the Confederation Line East Light Rail Transit.

For the most part, the preferred alignment for the rail line is in the median that runs in the middle of Highway 174 and is being co-ordinated with the eventual widening of the highway. However, there are some who think it should run along Innes Road instead of the highway.

“This is a great project that will improve the quality of life for people living in the east part of the city,” Mayor Jim Watson said Monday. “This eastern rail extension is an important part of our Stage 2 package of future rail projects that will help us build a truly city-wide transit system to serve generations of residents.”

At the open houses, residents will have the opportunity to learn about and express their views on the integration of LRT in the highway corridor from Blair Station to Trim Road and the plan for highway widening west of Trim Road.

The project will add 10 kilometres of rail from Blair Station to Place d’Orléans and four new stations to the city’s overall transit network. A potential extension to Trim Road could add up to four more stations and 3.5 kilometres of rail.

“Through this project, we’re getting better transit and road connections with enormous economic development potential along the highway corridor,” said Cumberland Coun. Stephen Blais, chairman of the transit commission. “These are big improvements that will make a real difference in people’s lives.”

Coun. Keith Egli, chairman of the city’s transportation committee, echoed the sentiment. “Transit use in our city is highest in the east, and this project will provide a seamless, high-quality connection to downtown and the rest of the city. It’s important that people let us know what they think of our plans.”


The open house dates are:

Tuesday, Feb. 3

R.J. Kennedy Memorial Community Centre
Halls A & B
1115 Dunning Rd., Cumberland
6 to 9 p.m., presentation at 7 p.m.

Wednesday, Feb. 4

Bob MacQuarrie Orléans Recreation Complex
1490 Youville Dr., Orléans
6 to 9 p.m., presentation at 7 p.m.

Thursday, Feb. 5

Guy Faubert Hall
954 Giroux St., Rockland
6 to 9 p.m., presentation at 7 p.m.

More information on the East LRT and Highway 174 widening project can be found at ottawa.ca.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...east-lrt-route

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is no need for any expropriation. Run the line down the south side of the 174. There is space there between the highway and the hydro corridor. At least this is a little closer to Place d'Orleans and other commercial development.

This option is way more expensive and would require massive changes to the interchanges with pretty much every bridge being re-built.

You already have the Park'N Ride on the north side of the 174 at Place D'Orleans & bus station south. So you've actually shortened the walk for many of the users

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Everything becomes a long walk when you place transit in the middle of a freeway and note that this is to be coordinated with a highway widening. So the walk across the freeway becomes even longer. And how will bus transfers be convenient at Place d'Orleans? How does this really encourage TOD. It doesn't . Won't it be fun standing in the middle of the freeway on a cold windy January day?

There's no money in the TMP for a widening of the 174. The EA is simply examining a transit solution in the context of a future widening. Similar to the Trillium Line, and how the Airport spur is unfunded but examed in the EA anyway, and similar to how the Orleans EA is drawing up designs out to Trim even though only to Place D'Orleans is funded. Any "widening" that does happen with construction would simply be a redesignation of the bus lanes to general traffic lanes.

[1overcosc]

5km is relevant to cyclists, it's the maximum distance that can reasonably be called a short bike ride to most (5km = ~15 minute bike ride)