Kingston Launches BRT, increases local service with no fare hike

[manny_santos]

Interesting thread that I hadn't spotted until now as I don't frequent the Ottawa forum. I have lived in Kingston over a year and I work downtown right on Ontario Street, so I have a few observations.

- A large number of the tourists that visit Kingston, particularly downtown, do so via tour buses and not driving. Every day this summer I have seen 1-2 tour buses parked downtown with people getting on or off, some from Quebec and some from other parts of Ontario. I don't think parking, or the perceived lack thereof, is harming the local tourism industry at all. They sure get a heck of a lot more tourists than my hometown of London.

- Although there is a lack of parking in close proximity to the K-Rock Centre, overall parking options in downtown Kingston are excellent. I never have trouble finding a parking spot. The price is also a real bargain compared to Ottawa, Toronto, and London.

- When I first moved to Kingston, the transit system was terrible and that spurred me to buy a car very fast. A previous time I visited Kingston, I arrived at the bus station and took me a full hour by bus to get downtown (a Monday evening) in the rain. Things aren't that bad now from my understanding.

- The Express bus service, at least initially, isn't going to shave much time off travelling in the older parts of the city. Driving on Princess Street between Bath Road and Division Street is no fun, and I avoid it when possible. I swear there is a speed limit of 30 km/h there posted on signs that everyone except me can see. The traffic lights are also not at all synchronized; one will usually encounter a red light immediately after going through a green light in either direction.

- Having lived in London most of my life, the get-it-done attitude of Mayor Gerretson and his council is a refreshing change from what I grew up with, which was (and continues to be) spineless, trying to please everyone, and in the process getting almost nothing done while caving into either developers or NIMBYers. London's BRT system has been on the books since 1973 and just this week they finally voted to put money into the first environmental assessment for it. They'll be lucky to have it fully implemented by 2160 at that rate.

[eternallyme]

The other small cities in eastern Ontario are a study in contrasts. They have little or no transit, no real core tourism or urban feel and seem to have a very conservative attitude that resembles more a southern US town. Yes, Kingston is much larger than any of them, but it is like night and day...

[S-Man]

They have little or no transit, no real core tourism or urban feel and seem to have a very conservative attitude that resembles more a southern US town.

Like London?

conservative/don't-build-it mindset, perpetually voting Lib or NDP, voted in corrupt mayor as well. On a local level, ignores unemployment, wants streets to remain free of riff-raff (like a duplex, or a renter, etc).

Southern U.S.? OK, if you really feel that way. Londoners would be shocked to hear it.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Like London?

conservative/don't-build-it mindset, perpetually voting Lib or NDP, voted in corrupt mayor as well. On a local level, ignores unemployment, wants streets to remain free of riff-raff (like a duplex, or a renter, etc).

Southern U.S.? OK, if you really feel that way. Londoners would be shocked to hear it.

No, I am talking about other smaller cities in eastern Ontario - think Cornwall, Brockville, Pembroke, etc.

[S-Man]

OK, but London still applies to some of the elements you list, despite having a larger population. That said, pigeonholing any town or city in an identity-polics kind of way doesn't work well, as a city isn't a person.

Also: finances. I doubt Pembroke, which had to dump its police force to save cash, is in any way prepared to implement public transit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by S-Man

OK, but London still applies to some of the elements you list, despite having a larger population. That said, pigeonholing any town or city in an identity-polics kind of way doesn't work well, as a city isn't a person.

Also: finances. I doubt Pembroke, which had to dump its police force to save cash, is in any way prepared to implement public transit.

Pembroke does have a tiny public transit system, running hourly, Monday to Friday 6am to 6pm. It basically covers the whole city with one route. I actually saw someone waiting at a bus stop a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Like London?

conservative/don't-build-it mindset, perpetually voting Lib or NDP, voted in corrupt mayor as well. On a local level, ignores unemployment, wants streets to remain free of riff-raff (like a duplex, or a renter, etc).

Southern U.S.? OK, if you really feel that way. Londoners would be shocked to hear it.

I'm not sure how any of the things that you've listed go together.

But I also think its a mistake to try to politicize these issues by party affiliation. It's too narrow a guage.

[S-Man]

I've seen it, and read about it.

If the Glebe were a city, it would be London. By far the most underserved half-million-people city around, in terms of transit, pedestrian, roadway and rail infrastructure. If you go back through council decisions, there has been a decades-long trend of stagnation and isolationism coming from the people who do vote and do own homes/have jobs, which is mainly in the nice areas (big surprise there).

A freeway into the centre of the sprawling, difficult-to-traverse city (removed from the 401) was kiboshed in the 70s, I believe. Freight trains run at grade through downtown, with few non-level crossings, making for traffic headaches above and away what they already are. Malls and retail in vast numbers are located near the edges of the city. Intensification has only just in the past few years started to encroach on downtown, which is still rife with parking lots.

Transit is a joke of milk runs inching through traffic because there are no good right-of-ways or Transitways for them to travel unimpeded on (oh yeah, and the trains...).

I can't find the link, but a story in the London Free Press late last year describes a community successfully pressuring council to scrap a proposed duplex, which was deemed 'out of character' of the 'heritage' community. The usual hysteria was contained within the poorly written article.

Meanwhile, the city hovers around the highest unemployment in the province; the entire council voted to give themselves Diamond Jubilee Awards, the mayor is being investigated for fraud, etc. Just a mess.

And, this is my rationale for my comments.

Cities are complex organisms, and so are finances. Voting is one thing, but just one thing. People themselves can surprise through their actions - I've known far-left NIMBYs and backwards-thinking luddites, hyper-tolerant Christians, and socially progressive Conservatives, and everything in between.

I think it gives comfort to people who subscribe to identity politics in full, as it gives them a false sense of orderliness in a confusing, chaotic world. That, and prejudice!

[S-Man]

Pembroke does have a tiny public transit system, running hourly, Monday to Friday 6am to 6pm. It basically covers the whole city with one route. I actually saw someone waiting at a bus stop a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

Yellowknife has one of these. It's a massive money-loser.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

No, I am talking about other smaller cities in eastern Ontario - think Cornwall, Brockville, Pembroke, etc.

Very true. A lot of the people close to my age in Kingston come from the nearby smaller communities, and they are some of the most ultra-conservative people I've met in my life. Most of them do not drink at all or drink very little, have very old-fashioned ideas about the role of women in the family, and have old views on how women should dress. That's very different from what I grew up with in London, which I think is more influenced by Toronto.

[Ottawa superman]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Very true. A lot of the people close to my age in Kingston come from the nearby smaller communities, and they are some of the most ultra-conservative people I've met in my life. Most of them do not drink at all or drink very little, have very old-fashioned ideas about the role of women in the family, and have old views on how women should dress. That's very different from what I grew up with in London, which I think is more influenced by Toronto.

Eastern Ontario is generally know for it's more conservative views. For the Ontario PC party leadership race in 2009, Hillier, the more conservative candidate of the race got most of his support in Eastern Ontario.

The exception is some Ottawa neighbourhood, Prescott Russel. A region with more francophone than the other parts of the region.

Kingston is itself fairly liberals, since it is Eastern Ontario second largest city. Another interesting fact, Kingston never voted for the Ontario Progressive Conservatives since 1985.

[Dado]

What a weird discussion.

[Davis137]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Based on your post, I'm going to guess you're living in the east end (east of the Cataraqui River), and such you're only bus is the #12.

Nope, we wanted to NOT live in PMQ's North...specifically asked our agent to show us central and western Kingston when we did our house hunting trip.

The commute to work from the west end during winter should prove an absolute treat though...

[manny_santos]

I've just had my first experience with the express service. I caught a bus that was supposed to connect to an express route, but as is the norm in Kingston, the express bus came early and I had to wait 15 minutes for another one. I'm so glad I rarely have to rely on transit here.

[1overcosc]

Rule #1 of Kingston Transit: Never rely on transfers unless you're transferring at DTP (Princess/Bagot), the Cataraqui Centre, the Kingston Centre, or St. Lawrence College. In the case of the express, only the first two. Once you know that, navigating the system becomes easy and predictable.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Rule #1 of Kingston Transit: Never rely on transfers unless you're transferring at DTP (Princess/Bagot), the Cataraqui Centre, the Kingston Centre, or St. Lawrence College. In the case of the express, only the first two. Once you know that, navigating the system becomes easy and predictable.

Where I grew up (London, Ont.) that was a common problem as well. However once they instituted GPS tracking of all the buses and made the data available online, the drivers really cleaned up their act with bus timing. The buses themselves had a screen that informed the drivers how many minutes ahead or behind schedule they were, and I don't doubt that data was being recorded and used for constructive feedback.

I like in Toronto how you can use SMS to get arrival times for TTC streetcars, except of course at Spadina Station.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Where I grew up (London, Ont.) that was a common problem as well. However once they instituted GPS tracking of all the buses and made the data available online, the drivers really cleaned up their act with bus timing. The buses themselves had a screen that informed the drivers how many minutes ahead or behind schedule they were, and I don't doubt that data was being recorded and used for constructive feedback.

I like in Toronto how you can use SMS to get arrival times for TTC streetcars, except of course at Spadina Station.

Also available for Ottawa buses, text to 560560 then the stop number and bus number. Even tells you if the time has been GPS updated or not.

[1overcosc]

The stats are in... the Express Bus and associated local route improvements led to a whopping 14% increase in ridership!!!!.

The city's moving ahead with a second round of expansion in May 2015, adding two additional express routes and further local route enhancements. The city had an open house on the expansion today, and I attended. I snapped this picture of the new Express route map:



Transit priority measures are going to be installed at select intersections beginning this fall. Midday frequency is going up. It's slowly becoming an actual BRT system.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The stats are in... the Express Bus and associated local route improvements led to a whopping 14% increase in ridership!!!!.

The city's moving ahead with a second round of expansion in May 2015, adding two additional express routes and further local route enhancements. The city had an open house on the expansion today, and I attended. I snapped this picture of the new Express route map:



Transit priority measures are going to be installed at select intersections beginning this fall. Midday frequency is going up. It's slowly becoming an actual BRT system.

That is pretty impressive for one route. The trick will be sustaining it, so it's good to see that they are pushing ahead with the expansion of the system.

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Pembroke does have a tiny public transit system, running hourly, Monday to Friday 6am to 6pm. It basically covers the whole city with one route. I actually saw someone waiting at a bus stop a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

If I remember right, transit in Pembroke ended March 31. The company operating it decided to stop the whole thing, and the city doesn't have the money to replace the service.