Downtown Ottawa Casino

[waterloowarrior]

looks like a report to move forward will come to Council soon http://www.ottawacitizen.com/News/Ot...425/story.html

[S-Man]

Well, the city needs cash, and bad. And it ain't gonna come from the province or feds.

And all that HST gas tax money from Ottawa drivers got spent/will get spent in Toronto, I'm sure.

So the real question is 'where?'. Where could such a thing be built without also having to spend big bucks on supporting infrastructure? The racetrack? Lebreton? the Airport?

[J.OT13]

Central area but not directly downtown (CBD, Market, Rideau). Chaudière Island would be appropriate.

[eternallyme]

Keep it out of the downtown core, it is certainly not appropriate considering the makeup of the area. It would only increase crime and other problems, and there is not enough parking for such (particularly for tour buses), even considering transit access.

Best locations are near the airport, the racetrack, former CFB Rockcliffe and Scotiabank Place. IMO, the former CFB Rockcliffe might be the best place, as it could act as a development catalyst for that area, especially if planned in tandem with a future Rideau-Montreal Road subway.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

looks like a report to move forward will come to Council soon http://www.ottawacitizen.com/News/Ot...425/story.html

It will probably never happen.
Ottawa is a government town and civil servants are not big spenders.
Slot machines do not a casino make.

Lac Leamy has a park-surrounded lake with pleasure boat access from Montreal and the US. Private planes may land at Gatineau Airport, 5 minutes up the road. It has high class entertainment, floor shows, restaurants and its very own Hilton Hotel with all the privacy in the world.
It has been around for many years, has a well established clientele and a "Quebec atmosphere" which may have a certain appeal to out-of-country convention revelers and tourists.

The only place in town would be Parliament Hill: convert the Centre Block into a casino with a football/soccer field on the lawn (and lease out the House of Commons Chamber to Barbarella's)

[toaster]

I'd argue for anywhere near the VIA train/lands they have near trainyards. It's central, but lots of room for parking, etc.

[McC]

This is filed under the heading "would never happen" but replacing the Dow's Lake Pavillion with a "Riviera" casino with multiple restaurants and patios, and a graceful tower hotel (also reproducing and enhancing the services available to the public within in the Pavillion, e.g. public restrooms, bike boat and skate rentals, others?) would be a pretty cool dream, the Pavillion is an amazing location but really fails to live up to the possibilities. But where would the tour buses and acres of parking go? Problems!

(i think to make it work and to accommodate the parking, you'd have to buy out and build over HMCS Ottawa too, although for the dream, that would open up enough space for a second tower of luxury "hotel-inspired" Riviera condos!)

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by toaster

I'd argue for anywhere near the VIA train/lands they have near trainyards. It's central, but lots of room for parking, etc.

I also think this part of the city might work well. Personally, I feel Hurdman could be the ideal site. With (future) direct light rail access to the train station (one stop away) and the Convention Centre at Rideau (two stops), as well as being on the SE Transitway to the Airport (and quick taxi airport access via Riverside), it's a good location for this sort of tourism-oriented facility.

It could promote greater redevelopment of the surrounding area. Ideally it would be developed to front onto the Rideau River, focusing upon creating a lively waterfront with commercial uses (something currently lacking in our city). It could integrate new & better pedestrian crossings of the River. There is enough space there for as expansive a facility as desired (multiple hotel/condo towers, retail, the Casino itself, theatre or convention space, whatever parking towers/garages is absolutely necessary)

Of course developing that location would involve a lot of cooperation from the NCC - in addition to selling or leasing the land, they would need to agree to allow the development to integrate with the waterfront. Does anyone know what role the NCC played regarding the Lac Leamy Casino? Their role there (cooperative or obstructionist) could be a precedent for their view of this development.

If Hurdman were chosen, it should also have immediate implications regarding the City's LRT project as station design at Hurdman should be integrated with the facility.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by McC

This is filed under the heading "would never happen" but replacing the Dow's Lake Pavillion with a "Riviera" casino with multiple restaurants and patios, and a graceful tower hotel (also reproducing and enhancing the services available to the public within in the Pavillion, e.g. public restrooms, bike boat and skate rentals, others?) would be a pretty cool dream, the Pavillion is an amazing location but really fails to live up to the possibilities. But where would the tour buses and acres of parking go? Problems!

(i think to make it work and to accommodate the parking, you'd have to buy out and build over HMCS Ottawa too, although for the dream, that would open up enough space for a second tower of luxury "hotel-inspired" Riviera condos!)

Good idea. You forgot to mention that the O-Train Carling Station is across the street as well as SOHO Italia and the Little Italy Archway. Also, the O-Train could finally be made to go to the airport for out-of-town casino customers and connect with meaningful LRT systems such as using a cross-town Baseline axis.

The HMCS Ottawa and the Navy Curling Club are a 21st Century anachronism. They should be part of the LeBreton Flats redevelopment and the land they occupy used to build a Hilton comparable to the Lac Leamy Hilton.

Paul's Boat Line could ply the Canal 24/7 in the summertime between the Convention Centre and the Dow's Lake Casino. There could be more and better docking facilities for pleasure boats and it could be integrated (Casino=sponsor?) with Winterlude festivities. (p.s. Lansdowne Urban Park with its berms would make fantastic winter tobogganing hills to be associated also with Winterlude ( OSEG=sponsor?)).

This is a great idea. It has lots of potential for useful development in terms of transportation and tourist appeal: Experimental Farm, Dow's Lake, Little Italy, Chinatown, Carleton U., Civic Hospital, pleasure boat access, potential airport access, cycling routes network, Rideau Canal, quick downtown access (the Driveways), easy city-wide access (Prince of Wales, Carling, Preston, Bronson, Bank, Riverside Dr.), close to the 417 (Rochester, Bronson, O'Connor, Bank, Riverside Dr.), and much underused municipal land along the O-Train axis (mostly used for municipal vehicle storage).

The whole area needs to be redeveloped for commercial and residential use. A Dow's Lake Casino may just be the pair of aces to give the City a winning hand.

[eternallyme]

Any thoughts on one at CFB Rockcliffe as part of a redevelopment there?

[J.OT13]

All great ideas.

-The train station would actually put some interest as you step out the terminal. Having a hotel right there too, with a nice view of the city would be great. Add that to the existing Coventry stadium and the two hotels across the Queensway would make the area much livelier with a lot of traffic crossing between the two areas. And of course, plenty of room for free, or very cheap parking to better compete with Gatineau.

-Hurdman, right on the river. Lots of room for parking, direct bus (sadly not train) access to the McD-Cartier International Airport and a short metro trip to the OCC and downtown on one side, and the train station on the other side.

-CFB Rockliffe is a little tougher, but still interesting. Of course the Rideau-Montreal subway would be awesome, but it’s not going to happen for likely 30+ years, if ever. But, again, plenty of room for free parking, and if the Kettle Island bridge is ever built, we can return the favor and steal patrons from Qubec.

-Dow’s Lake would probably be the most scenic place to put it (other than the Ottawa River). With (Ottawa standard) super-talls, a view of downtown atop a new hotel, it would be pretty great. And extending the O-Train to the airport would make it even better (in Vancouver, the airport paid 300 million of the 1.76 billion price tag. See the “project funding” part of the Wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Line).

[umbria27]

I have never really understood the appeal of a casino, but if we are to have one, it should be part of some sort of entertainment hub, with restaurants and draws for us non-gamblers.
Ottawa is a small city. You can't spread out the entertainment attractions too much, else you dilute them. I would put it on Sparks street, use it as another draw to bring visitors in west downtown hotels towards the NAC and the market. Put a couple of boutique hotels in NCC heritage buildings on Sparks, enliven the restaurants, maybe provide enough traffic that other entertainment venues open up on Sparks.

[amanfromnowhere]

Originally Posted by McC

This is filed under the heading "would never happen" but replacing the Dow's Lake Pavillion with a "Riviera" casino with multiple restaurants and patios, and a graceful tower hotel (also reproducing and enhancing the services available to the public within in the Pavillion, e.g. public restrooms, bike boat and skate rentals, others?) would be a pretty cool dream, the Pavillion is an amazing location but really fails to live up to the possibilities. But where would the tour buses and acres of parking go? Problems!

(i think to make it work and to accommodate the parking, you'd have to buy out and build over HMCS Ottawa too, although for the dream, that would open up enough space for a second tower of luxury "hotel-inspired" Riviera condos!)

that is actually a very good idea! never thought about this spot, but this location probably has less oppositions among other potential sites

[J.OT13]

If it has to be downtown, then yes, Sparks is the best option. With Rideau being more of a shopping district, we want people to spend in the retail establishments. And since the CBD is dead after 6 pm, it might be good to keep a pulse down there late into the night and revitalize Sparks.

It would also help fill the couple more upscale hotels (ALT and Re) in the CBD as well as the older hotels and open up the opportunity for the Rideau Centre to build a large (600+ rooms) name brand name hotel to support the OCC as opposed to having convention goers rent a room a kilometer away on Lyon.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by McC

This is filed under the heading "would never happen" but replacing the Dow's Lake Pavillion with a "Riviera" casino with multiple restaurants and patios, and a graceful tower hotel (also reproducing and enhancing the services available to the public within in the Pavillion, e.g. public restrooms, bike boat and skate rentals, others?) would be a pretty cool dream, the Pavillion is an amazing location but really fails to live up to the possibilities. But where would the tour buses and acres of parking go? Problems!

(i think to make it work and to accommodate the parking, you'd have to buy out and build over HMCS Ottawa too, although for the dream, that would open up enough space for a second tower of luxury "hotel-inspired" Riviera condos!)

Dow's lake is a great idea..and there's actually lots of room to build parking (underground and above ground) and areas for tour buses.. once you tear down the existing building .. you can connect the new building to the parking lot in front where that can be developed with underground facilities as well as more casino/entertainment space above ground..

you could also take over the barracks land next door (as well as the curling club in the back)


but if it has to be downtown (which i can understand the reasoning behind it) I would convert the old train station (don't know if it's big enough)

for those gasping at the thought of such a beautiful (albeit underused building) being used for a casino.. I think you need to stop thinking of casinos as gaudy ugly places that bring crime.

the casino lac leamy hasn't brought any crime .. and it proves that if it's done right and done with class it can be a great tourist attraction, a great entertainment venue and a true destination.. therefore making the old union station the perfect place for a WELL THOUGHT OUT and WELL DESIGNED HIGH END casino.

all that being said.. i'm very curious as to the effect this would have on the lac leamy casino .. this could hurt them a lot.

if it was just slots being considered it wouldn't hurt them at all as we've seen with rideau raceway.. but a full gaming casino right downtown or near downtown might hurt a lot .

[lrt's friend]

Downtown. It has to be right downtown.

Is it really feasible to build an 'underground' garage next to Dow's Lake?

I really favour maintaining Rideau-Carleton Raceway at least for slots otherwise the horse racing industry will go under. Let's face it, the reason the horse racing industry has gotten into trouble is because of government sponsored gambling through casinos and lotteries.

[OTSkyline]

Wow, just proves that when regular citizens come together, great ideas can come about and maybe we should be taking these decisions instead of our "councillors"?

I have to agree that Hurdman and Dow's Lake would be the 2 best options by far. Rockliffe is a bit too far, underserved by retail, transit or anything else and think about the high class citizens of Rockliffe Park how they would freak out!

Dow's Lake would be nice with the view of the lake, connections to the O-Train and the new revialized Little Italy with SoHo and Claridge Icon... It could be a great eye-opener and a real diamond for Ottawa. I also love the idea of having some sort of commuter-boat/ferry from Downtown/Convention to Dow's Lake during summer for that and having the Casino as sponsor for the Winterlude.

Personally tho I think hurdman station is THE best option out there. I live on Riverside Dr right next to Hurdman Station and I've always thought that Hurman was prime land (access to every possible bus + soon to be LRT, riverfrontage, next to 417, Riverside Drive and just a couple of stops from Market, Downtown, Airport & Train station). Plus the available space is huge! Think of a great big classy casino with a cabaret or entertainment space with nightly/weekly performances, a couple of restaurants, a luxury hotel tower with 360-degree views of Downtown Ottawa and the water (a Hyatt, Four Seasons, W hotel or a Ritz-Carleton?) and some sort of urban-plaza with maybe cobblestone, seating, nice lamp posts and a 40-50 foot fountain. Imagine the liveliness of the area, especially at night with all the people going around the area with Hurdman and LRT RIGHT THERE! Plus, they could afford to build some more condo towers around (intensification) some parking and a couple of retail shops too (not too much since Landsdowne and St-Laurent etc.. are close-by). The possibilities are endless and just thinking about it makes me smile.

I'm thinking of going to the hearing, anybody else?

[waterloowarrior]

staff report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...%20-%20eng.pdf

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Downtown. It has to be right downtown.

Is it really feasible to build an 'underground' garage next to Dow's Lake?

I really favour maintaining Rideau-Carleton Raceway at least for slots otherwise the horse racing industry will go under. Let's face it, the reason the horse racing industry has gotten into trouble is because of government sponsored gambling through casinos and lotteries.

The Lake isn't that deep, and there's a rail tunnel directly under it right now. I suspect there isn't that much water pressure.

I thought the only reason horse racing has stuck around is mega millions in subsidies from the government. I don't know why we'd want to keep subsidizing it. It's not a vital provincial industry. The money is better used elsewhere.

I love the idea of summer boat rides to a Dow's Lake Casino.

But what about the winter?

Maybe they could mount some winter archways frozen into the canal, string a cable between them and allow self-powered gondolas to move people along, suspended 10 feet above the canal. If done elegantly it could really add to the atmosphere. I'd also put benches at the bases of each arch.

[Zach6668]

Love the idea of using the old train station. Thus a beautiful building and already kind of evokes thoughts of high end European casinos (Monte Carlo, London, etc).

Dow's Lake would be fantastic as well as it would likely bring more life to little Italy, and it IS already a decent nightlife hot spot.

I'm not sure I've ever actually seen studies or data that casinos have negative impacts on neighborhoods. Like, people just say they increase crime... Does anyone have data on this? I've been to many cities with urban casinos and I don't recall feeling unsafe. Like, really good cities; Barcelona, London, Brighton, UK. I mean, there's a sports book on every corner in the UK, I don't recall their civilization being corrupted.

It just seems like enough people blindly believe that casinos are negatives to urban areas, so it's become universally accepted as fact. Maybe they're right, I've just never seen any studies, or noticed it in my extensive experience in and around casinos (was a pro gambler for over 5 years...).

I like Sparks St as well, and the Market would be just find if you could find a location for it.

I never go to Hurdman area, so unfamiliar with it, and it's nightlife potential. Transit access is nice.

What about Bayview/LeBreton?