Electoral Reforms

[GlassCity]

The choice for a replacement for FPTP depends on your particular issue with it, in my opinion. One issue is its encouragement of strategic voting, the other is in disproportionate seat/vote ratios. I am much more concerned with strategic voting than with disproportionate seat counts, so I am personally more interested in a ranked ballot rather than a PR system. I want to be able to vote for the Greens, but I don't want minority governments in perpetuity.

Problem with the ranked ballot is that it would hurt both parties, so it'll never be proposed.

[Dengler Avenue]

Also proportional representation in Canada means that Conservatives (in essence, not in name) will never get elected.

[MIPS]

You were given ample warning BEFORE the ballots were mailed out.

You were REPEATEDLY educated on what both systems did.

The referendum was openly announced on TV, radio and the newspaper.

You were warned on all of the above mediums when the deadline for submission was.

You received an extension to the deadline anyways.


A little over 40% of the population of BC were responsible enough to accomplish one small but important task. I can't say for certain if this means 60% of the population were that incapable of going to a mailbox or if just nobody cared.
Either way, 60% of the total result saying NO still indicates without question that even if the total number of returned ballots was higher it would of still been NO.
Likewise if they STILL are not happy with the results (because they never will because their favourite hobby is making everyone miserable)...I dunno....fix that problem with the abysmal turnout?

[SpongeG]

up north it was/is very unpopular

some comments from people in ft st john

- Hey Horgan, get the picture yet?

- Weaver is going to go nuclear. I smell an election.
reply - we can only hope

- "I don't vote because it won't count."
"Well how about voting to see that it does count?"
"Nah."

- Finally some good news

- The two votes in my household helped make a difference

- I'm assuming this passes Wilkinsons dancing threshold for validity?
reply - sure hope so, this is awesome news

https://www.facebook.com/EnergeticCity

[osirisboy]

Well I'm happy! I didn't support pr

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by MIPS

You were given ample warning BEFORE the ballots were mailed out.

You were REPEATEDLY educated on what both systems did.

The referendum was openly announced on TV, radio and the newspaper.

You were warned on all of the above mediums when the deadline for submission was.

You received an extension to the deadline anyways.


A little over 40% of the population of BC were responsible enough to accomplish one small but important task. I can't say for certain if this means 60% of the population were that incapable of going to a mailbox or if just nobody cared.
Either way, 60% of the total result saying NO still indicates without question that even if the total number of returned ballots was higher it would of still been NO.
Likewise if they STILL are not happy with the results (because they never will because their favourite hobby is making everyone miserable)...I dunno....fix that problem with the abysmal turnout?

Same reason why municpal elections sometime get less than 25% turnout. People do not fucking care. Millenials have a short attention span and could give a rats ass about politics.

At the end of the day...those that feel motivated to vote feel like they have something to lose or gain. Do you own properties? Sit on a pile of cash? Have a job that relies on a boom economy?

Most of those who are mobilized in the 21st century are those who favour fiscal conservatism. The left are too busy focusing on identity politics and bickering over stupid trivial crap.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Problem with the ranked ballot is that it would hurt both parties, so it'll never be proposed.

Wasn't that STV? That referendum actually got over 50% support, but the government arbitrarily assigned a 60% threshold...

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Most of those who are mobilized in the 21st century are those who favour fiscal conservatism. The left are too busy focusing on identity politics and bickering over stupid trivial crap.

I'm not sure where you get that impression. Canada elected Trudeau (who's likely to get a 2nd term), the US only elected Trump because their voting system isn't democratic. BC elected the GreeNDP, who together got a ton more votes than the BC Libs.

Young people have always voted less than older generations, and older generations have always been more conservative. This isn't new in the 21st century.

What *is* new, is low information people who can't think critically, being influenced by Facebook memes, foreign influence, and lies from politicians that don't even make sense. Hence Trump and Ford.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Wasn't that STV? That referendum actually got over 50% support, but the government arbitrarily assigned a 60% threshold...

In 2004 BCers voted 57.7% in favour of switching to a Single Transferrable Vote system. But the BC Liberals set the bar artificially high at 60% (if they ever got 57.7% in an election they would have called it a landslide). As the party of the Rich, the BC Lieberals have a vested interested in seeing that a wealthy minority is able to control things in the province.

[s211]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

The left are too busy focusing on identity politics and bickering over stupid trivial crap.

Ding ding ding. FTW.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In 2004 BCers voted 57.7% in favour of switching to a Single Transferrable Vote system. But the BC Liberals set the bar artificially high at 60% (if they ever got 57.7% in an election they would have called it a landslide). As the party of the Rich, the BC Lieberals have a vested interested in seeing that a wealthy minority is able to control things in the province.

61% so stats say they are intersted in helping the majority control things in the province?

[EastVanMark]

The poll on here was way off the way people actually voted.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Well I'm happy! I didn't support pr

Agreed.

Given the snail's pace of the current government's stalling tactics on things like UBER and George Massey Bridge, I'd rather have one group at least make a bloody decision on their own, and it again alone answer for those decisions at the ballot box rather than the back room deals where if current trends in this province are to be observed, only lead to stalling, indecision, and murky deals, and even murkier accountability. No thanks. SPTP is far from perfect, but its WAY better than that garbage

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

The poll on here was way off the way people actually voted.

Well, the question isn't the same. But it's also important to remember that SSP doesn't reflect the general public.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Wasn't that STV? That referendum actually got over 50% support, but the government arbitrarily assigned a 60% threshold...

STV was proportional too though, was it not? With multiple representatives per riding?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

STV was proportional too though, was it not? With multiple representatives per riding?

I get them mixed up, but I thought it included a ranked ballot.

Funny, since the BC Libs use a ranked ballot to determine their leadership race...

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I get them mixed up, but I thought it included a ranked ballot.

Funny, since the BC Libs use a ranked ballot to determine their leadership race...

It was both. STV included both ranking and two representatives per riding. The idea is in divided ridings you'd end up with 1 Liberal and 1 NDP, while in more "consensus" ridings you'd have 2 X and 0 Y, thereby making it proportional.

But I'm just going off memory as well so I could have some holes in my understanding.