The Dad Thread

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Congrats! I found the 6-9mth mark the sweet spot with my first born so it gets better! They sleep better and start to develop more of a personality. The first months are the roughest.

Appreciate the words of wisdom. Also, what a fantastic idea for a thread. I'm the first in my friend group to have a kid so I'm finding it to be somewhat isolating and this is actually quite helpful.

[kool maudit]

As the new dad of a seven-month old born in the very late 1970s, I came late to this. I wouldn't counsel anyone to wait that long. That said, it's kind of amazing how even the most difficult periods have never led to my really doubting that this was the right thing to do. It's almost amazing. If I described these situations to my childless self, that would have been the obvious conclusion, but it's just not the felt reality.

I will say that it is an incredible motivation to take care of myself.

Stupidly, I didn't know that the Swedish parental leave system was not automatic, you have to apply for it, and the delays can be up to seven months. Luckily, mine was approved yesterday, so I am now trying to set up my very own huge, multi-month chunk of fatherhood leave, and I hope the system works as advertised. I know Swedish guys who basically didn't go to work for seemingly impossible stretches of time while their children were young, but Swedish guys grew up on the many ways one can manipulate this incredibly occult, complicated system. I'll probably get screwed.

Still, I'll always remember the reason an old friend of mine moved to Montreal... when she asked her boss in Louisiana about mat leave, he said "mat leave is you're fired". So I'm sure I can do a little better than that.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

As the new dad of a seven-month old born in the very late 1970s, I came late to this. I wouldn't counsel anyone to wait that long. That said, it's kind of amazing how even the most difficult periods have never led to my really doubting that this was the right thing to do. It's almost amazing. If I described these situations to my childless self, that would have been the obvious conclusion, but it's just not the felt reality.

I will say that it is an incredible motivation to take care of myself.

As someone almost in that age range who is currently childless but has a somewhat decent chance of that changing that in the next year or so - it seems extremely daunting. I visit my best friend who's my age and has a 1 year old and all of it seems very, very hard. But I do think there's a lot of truth that your brain chemistry literally changes to make it so you don't regret it (or murder them!). He's literally said the same thing as you about explaining it to his childless self, which also applies to explaining it to me.
Having a support network seems crucial as well.


My wife and I have been "trying" (I hate when people say that but can't think of a better word) for the past couple years without anything. And really it's been more of a "we'll see what happens" situation. So we aren't going to be devastated if it doesn't happen, but decided to try IVF for one last attempt since it's relatively cheap with the combo of government coverage and private insurance. Chances aren't great at our age but will see how it goes.

It's wild how the years get by you and all of a sudden it's basically too late. I could see it being very difficult for someone deadset on having kids. I was never of that mind but assumed it was a 50/50 it would happen, and higher once I got married.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Appreciate the words of wisdom. Also, what a fantastic idea for a thread. I'm the first in my friend group to have a kid so I'm finding it to be somewhat isolating and this is actually quite helpful.

An interesting comment that I've often read, but it wasn't our experience at all.

When our kids were youngest it was most definitely extremely demanding, but our social life literally exploded.

(In fact, part of what made that period demanding was precisely keeping up with the demands of our new social life as a family - I mean it was a choice we made and was fun, but still a lot of work.)

I often say that we made more friends in our neighbourhood in the six months after our eldest was born, than in the previous six years that we lived in the exact same place.

Two decades later we still have a nucleus of close friends that we made back then when our kids were all babies.

Prior to becoming parents, as a couple in our early 30s our social circle based on a local bar and hip bistro was slowly but surely receding, as more and more people we'd been hanging out with became parents and the crowd became younger and younger.

I am not saying that we did it to bow to social pressure, as we'd always wanted kids. (Since I was a kid myself, in my case in fact.)

But it wasn't at all a step back socially and not sure if we had remained childless that our social life would have been exponentially more active.

Anyway, just our experience.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by niwell

Having a support network seems crucial as well.

Oh man. This makes a huge difference and can easily offset some of the challenges of having kids.

My family and my wife's family were (and are) pretty limited in their ability to take on my kids for a range of reasons. We can ask for the occasional evening of babysitting or maybe taking one kid to an activity when we're double booked somehow, but that's about it.

I am kind of envious of friends who leave their kids with an uncle or aunt's family for a weekend of fun with their cousins while they skip off to Vegas for the weekend or whatever... that is unheard of in my world

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by niwell

As someone almost in that age range who is currently childless but has a somewhat decent chance of that changing that in the next year or so - it seems extremely daunting. I visit my best friend who's my age and has a 1 year old and all of it seems very, very hard.

It is. But I don't think the change is only physiological. There is also a transformational element whereby 'life' changes from 'the things you do with your time on earth' to 'the chain you are a part of'.

That sounds kind of metaphysical and airy, but it's not like you actually think these things. That's just what it sounds like when I try and put it into words. Day-to-day, it's more like a layer of "of course I'm doing this".

Which does not mean the sleepless nights and ragged edges don't hurt because they do. But there's this other thing going on behind them.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

An interesting comment that I've often read, but it wasn't our experience at all.

When our kids were youngest it was most definitely extremely demanding, but our social life literally exploded.

(In fact, part of what made that period demanding was precisely keeping up with the demands of our new social life as a family - I mean it was a choice we made and was fun, but still a lot of work.)

I often say that we made more friends in our neighbourhood in the six months after our eldest was born, than in the previous six years that we lived in the exact same place.

Two decades later we still have a nucleus of close friends that we made back then when our kids were all babies.

Prior to becoming parents, as a couple in our early 30s our social circle based on a local bar and hip bistro was slowly but surely receding, as more and more people we'd been hanging out with became parents and the crowd became younger and younger.

I am not saying that we did it to bow to social pressure, as we'd always wanted kids. (Since I was a kid myself, in my case in fact.)

But it wasn't at all a step back socially and not sure if we had remained childless that our social life would have been exponentially more active.

Anyway, just our experience.

I could see it being isolating if you are the only one in your group having kids, which may be the case for those who become parents at a young age relative to their friends. I remember when I was in university there were a couple of acquaintances who had kids fairly early on, when I was still in my early 20s and children were far from my mind. I'm sure that wasn't all that easy for them, as few of their friends could relate. Although I suppose when you have kids you do tend to turn inward somewhat. Home typically becomes a bigger part of your life.

In my case, becoming a dad in my 30s meant that a lot of my friends were going through the same thing at the same time. Several of my wife's friends were on mat leave at the same times as her, so that certainly gave her a strong circle of friends.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by niwell

It's wild how the years get by you and all of a sudden it's basically too late.

The 'long youth' that is common in my circles and I suspect yours as well is uncanny. You get dropped off at what you think is the end, and then realize it's been gone for far, far longer.

The people I know who were really good at that specific sort of late-X/early-Min youth culture, with the indie bands and the moving to NYC with Vice in '05 etc... they're almost all childless. Some are true believers but I suspect others are wondering what happened.

Chloe Sevigny micro-generation fertility fail.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

It is. But I don't think the change is only physiological. There is also a transformational element whereby 'life' changes from 'the things you do with your time on earth' to 'the chain you are a part of'.

That sounds kind of metaphysical and airy, but it's not like you actually think these things. That's just what it sounds like when I try and put it into words. Day-to-day, it's more like a layer of "of course I'm doing this".

Which does not mean the sleepless nights and ragged edges don't hurt because they do. But there's this other thing going on behind them.

The truest thing anyone ever said about this is that you really have no idea what it's like until you're actually sitting in the seat.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The 'long youth' that is common in my circles and I suspect yours as well is uncanny. You get dropped off at what you think is the end, and then realize it's been gone for far, far longer.

The people I know who were really good at that specific sort of late-X/early-Min youth culture, with the indie bands and the moving to NYC with Vice in '05 etc... they're almost all childless. Some are true believers but I suspect others are wondering what happened.

Chloe Sevigny micro-generation fertility fail.

(I'm not some hyper natalist now or something, even though I'm glad to be a dad. It could easily have turned out differently and maybe been 100% fine. I just think it's interesting to observe such a vanishingly low birth rate in this specific cohort.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

I could see it being isolating if you are the only one in your group having kids, which may be the case for those who become parents at a young age relative to their friends. I remember when I was in university there were a couple of acquaintances who had kids fairly early on, when I was still in my early 20s and children were far from my mind. I'm sure that wasn't all that easy for them, as few of their friends could relate. Although I suppose when you have kids you do tend to turn inward somewhat. Home typically becomes a bigger part of your life.
.

One of my very best lifelong friends went through this, and while we never completely lost contact, we most definitely didn't see each other very often in those years. It wasn't related to any malicious intent, it's just that we weren't at the same place in our lives: his life having been totally transformed in a way that I couldn't completely understand yet.

Now that our kids are older we see each other much more often.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

(I'm not some hyper natalist now or something, even though I'm glad to be a dad. It could easily have turned out differently and maybe been 100% fine. I just think it's interesting to observe such a vanishingly low birth rate in this specific cohort.)

For all the talk about societal and social pressure to become a parent, in certain specific milieus having a kid these days might actually be a big move against the grain.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

It is. But I don't think the change is only physiological. There is also a transformational element whereby 'life' changes from 'the things you do with your time on earth' to 'the chain you are a part of'.

That sounds kind of metaphysical and airy, but it's not like you actually think these things. That's just what it sounds like when I try and put it into words. Day-to-day, it's more like a layer of "of course I'm doing this".

Which does not mean the sleepless nights and ragged edges don't hurt because they do. But there's this other thing going on behind them.

Yeah that actually makes sense to me as well.

It's not the same thing at all but we got a (very large and excitable) puppy two years ago and most of the work has fallen on me, both due to scheduling but also because it's just worked out that way. Waking up constantly in the middle of the night, going on long walks in inclement weather and so on happens simply because it has to. And it's not something I'm bitter about in the slightest, even though getting up at 5am after going out with friends the night before is not a fun time. Overall the changes and additional direction have been very positive.

So we'll see what happens if a child is involved!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Oh man. This makes a huge difference and can easily offset some of the challenges of having kids.

My family and my wife's family were (and are) pretty limited in their ability to take on my kids for a range of reasons. We can ask for the occasional evening of babysitting or maybe taking one kid to an activity when we're double booked somehow, but that's about it.

I am kind of envious of friends who leave their kids with an uncle or aunt's family for a weekend of fun with their cousins while they skip off to Vegas for the weekend or whatever... that is unheard of in my world

It's eerie how your life experience mirrors mine. You're my Manitoban alter ego!

[ScreamingViking]

Who here is a step-dad?

This is my second time. First marriage, my ex had very young kids who were only 6 when we met and my role was more "dad" like, even though their biological father was involved in their lives.

This time my wife's kids are older, 23 and 19 now for the ones still at home with one that will be 27 soon who is on her own. The younger child is just starting college and trying to find her path, the 23-year-old has bounced around in his education and has yet to define a future direction for himself. I've become more of a friend and mentor almost in a default way... my spouse and I have discussed it but the kids haven't expressed their thoughts (even though we did ask). Anyone else facing the challenges of being a step-parent to older kids?

[kool maudit]

On the other side, and to qualify some of the "mysterious changes when you become a dad" thing just a tiny bit...

...when I brought my baby home she just cried all night, just lit the place up, unappeasable, totally crazy. And you know what my first thought was, looking over to the bassinet?

"How can you do this to me? How can you behave in this way?"

Which is insane, of course, and obviously that was my second thought. It's a baby. It's what they do. But still... it really is foreign and shocking, and you do have some reactions that clearly show that this is not part of your experience at all thus far in life.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The 'long youth' that is common in my circles and I suspect yours as well is uncanny. You get dropped off at what you think is the end, and then realize it's been gone for far, far longer.

The people I know who were really good at that specific sort of late-X/early-Min youth culture, with the indie bands and the moving to NYC with Vice in '05 etc... they're almost all childless. Some are true believers but I suspect others are wondering what happened.

This rings very true.

As it stands most of the men in my social circle with kids have a younger partner which is likely why it's worked out that way. Or they were the outlier that had them years ago. At a certain point physiological issues kick in, and they do so much earlier for one part of the equation than the other. The cutoff happens very quickly too, as I'm discovering.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

The 'long youth' that is common in my circles and I suspect yours as well is uncanny. You get dropped off at what you think is the end, and then realize it's been gone for far, far longer.

Some are true believers but I suspect others are wondering what happened.

It's odd.

I just never felt the calling. Life was always decent to pretty good, and that moment when I guess I expected to hear something internally about that particular topic, there was nothing. Adulthood showed up, the money wasn't an issue any more, and even the last tenuous thrill of adventuring off to wherever had lost a lot of pizzazz.

I don't dislike kids at all, either. It just seemed as if there would need to be something more than 'Let's do this because why not' driving it forward and that I would need that drive because of the sacrifices required for this adventure.

[kool maudit]

For me, something happened when I went on a trip with a lifelong friend and his two boys in 2017. I realized I wanted what he had, and thought I could maybe even be good at it (famous last....thoughts?).

I can easily picture that not happening, because it had failed to occur in previous, similar situations. I don't know what it was. And obviously I'm only one side of the equation, so there's things from that end too.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's eerie how your life experience mirrors mine. You're my Manitoban alter ego!