Hamilton Roads

[jonny24]

That's awesome news about Barton. I've been saying it for a while, that revamping the street and sidewalk would go a long way to improving Barton's image now, and future prospects of improvement. While yes, some blocks of buildings are tough looking, the actual street/infrastructure does nothing to help it out. And people do take cues from their environment. If you're on a trash street, why put money into your trash building, when it fits in? Or, more importantly, why buy a building to improve if the rest of the area is still going to look horrific?

Excited for this… although the timing is awkward, if major construction on Barton is happening at the same time as LRT construction.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Excited for this… although the timing is awkward, if major construction on Barton is happening at the same time as LRT construction.

You make all great points! That last little bit I quoted is so true though, it will be a traffic nightmare in the city for a while. Short term pain though for massive long term gain lets rip that Band-Aid off and do this!

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by StEC

You make all great points! That last little bit I quoted is so true though, it will be a traffic nightmare in the city for a while. Short term pain though for massive long term gain lets rip that Band-Aid off and do this!

So glad I use a bike to get around sometimes

[craftbeerdad]

If Barton Village is a microcosm of opportunity (and yes it's not wonderful, but wow a lot of progress there the last few years & tip of the cap to the BIA), then slowly but surely there will be some positive developments.

If CBRE sells that massive plot of land where the A&W and Tim Horton's is, that helps to connect Barton towards James. Start focusing around Ottawa to Sherman and those two plans would help the momentum take off and fill the middle.

[ScreamingViking]

There are also many other underutilized/suburban-style lots along Barton that could host new development while keeping some of the existing stuff in back. Food Basics, the jail, that parking lot at Victoria... there is generally a decent streetwall east of Vic until you hit Lottridge, yet still with opportunities for infill and increasing density. Lottridge to Ottawa is more gap-toothed again and has some large parking lots, but has potential (though I imagine it will be one of the last stretches of Barton to see revitalization on a large scale)

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

If only some developers bought up entire blocks of barton Street and developed them ... it could be like a secondary downtown

[craftbeerdad]

Lots of good bones and lots indeed ScreamingViking (old banks, small walk ups, etc) that could be incorporated into designs and infill.

A second downtown isn't too far off. Barton pre-70's rivaled Queen Street as the main commercial strip in Southern Ontario. Seems like a distant memory, but if we check our rear view mirrors, objects are closer than they appear!

[TheRitsman]

Barton BIA was dying for redevelopment and more people along Barton. That and bike lanes. The BIA really had the right idea, but the city is so difficult to deal with.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

A second downtown isn't too far off. Barton pre-70's rivaled Queen Street as the main commercial strip in Southern Ontario. Seems like a distant memory, but if we check our rear view mirrors, objects are closer than they appear!

It was probably our best "high street"; certainly the longest. It may never return to its former glory but if it can be revitalized with 2, 3, and 4 storey buildings -- renos and additions and new builds with housing above first-floor shops and businesses -- and perhaps a few larger mid-rise developments on those larger lots, it will flourish.

Barton began to die when so many of the industrial jobs dried up, and the people who used to work in them and lived among the blocks near Barton moved on or settled into smaller lives with empty nests after their kids grew up and left. I know a number of people who have parents (for some that is singular) living in the old house; when they're gone, the house will go too and hopefully become home for a new young family.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Barton BIA was dying for redevelopment and more people along Barton. That and bike lanes. The BIA really had the right idea, but the city is so difficult to deal with.

The city is one thing, but the market is another. The more desirable neighbourhoods have seen the redevelopment to date; Barton is a tougher nut to crack, especially on its northern flank, given its proximity to active and derelict industrial land, its length, and unfortunately the reputation/perceptions it's had for the past few decades.

I really think it can be turned around, and without the same level of gentrification that's occurred in other old areas of the city.

[TheRitsman]

I always find it interesting. If you take a stroll through Barton neighbourhoods, many streets are lined with well maintained houses, many even with nice cars in driveways and on the street. There seems to be money in the streets surrounding Barton, but none of it seems to make it to the actual commercial strip. I think that's in large part due to the visual impact of the street. If the city does a serious repair and puts some love into the street, and some developments come along and some of the vacant properties get fixed up and filled with businesses, I can see some people venturing into the commercial strip. You can start to see businesses coming to the street now that James and Locke are filled, and Ottawa is too far east and too expensive for many. Barton is starting to get local businesses opening up.

I've heard rumours that Motel wants to leave because the landlord is an asshole, and that would be a shame because that place brings a ton of traffic to the street. The city needs to lean into those types of businesses and make sure they feel supported and able to flourish. The city just seems to forget Barton exists. James and Locke get the royal treatment, but Barton lies in derelict condition. I'm not just talking about the buildings, but the road and sidewalks are brutal.

[TheHonestMaple]

I totally agree with you. Honestly just some trees planted down the street would make a world of difference.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I totally agree with you. Honestly just some trees planted down the street would make a world of difference.

Absolutely. Barton St BIA really wanted bike lanes too. Barton has got to be one of the most well used streets for cyclists with no bike lanes on road because of the income level of some residents around there. I use it regularly on bike and it's really not enjoyable and the rough road makes it legitimately terrifying beside cars and trucks with the fear of hitting a pot hole and flying into traffic.

[mattgrande]

I just hope that adding bike lanes won't remove the centre boulevard. That's a really nice feature of the street.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I just hope that adding bike lanes won't remove the centre boulevard. That's a really nice feature of the street.

It likely would, and while I agree it's a nice feature, I can't support things that are just nice over safety. Barton is a 20m ROW so there should be room for sidewalks, trees and bike lanes if on street parking is reduced by a small amount, likely placing it on a single side of the road (I'd suggest north side).

Try a few configurations yourself: https://streetmix.net/

[ScreamingViking]

The physically separated boulevard is pretty short, isn't it? <500 metres overall?

Much of Barton west of Kenilworth has a centre median-lane for left turns though. Can that be better designed such that it's only near the major intersections?

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

It likely would, and while I agree it's a nice feature, I can't support things that are just nice over safety. Barton is a 20m ROW so there should be room for sidewalks, trees and bike lanes if on street parking is reduced by a small amount, likely placing it on a single side of the road (I'd suggest north side).

Try a few configurations yourself: https://streetmix.net/

I would argue that the centre median is good for safety. It allows people to cross in two phases, making it much easier. You only need a gap in one direction to get half-way. The trees and plants also help slow cars.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I would argue that the centre median is good for safety. It allows people to cross in two phases, making it much easier. You only need a gap in one direction to get half-way. The trees and plants also help slow cars.

Yes and no. Trees and plants can be done on the side of the road too, and while crossing in two phases sounds great it's unnecessary if the road width is effectively reduced with bicycle lanes, then a two phases crossing becomes less effective and unlikely to be followed. When I speak about safety I mean for all road users. As both a pedestrian, cyclist and driver, making everything cater to pedestrians is safest for them, but not safest for cyclists. Our complete streets need to actually be complete and balance the safety of all road users, especially vulnerable users like cyclists, and pedestrians.

I'll upload my suggested Barton Street road design here in a bit after this meeting.

Edit: As you can see Barton St is a 20m ROW. It currently has a 2.20m sidewalk approximately and a 1.80m median with quite large through lanes.

My proposed street would increase the sidewalk to 2.90m including tree and lamppost space at the edge of the sidewalk, and include a sizable bicycle lane with protections all while maintaining a tree and planter median at the minimum 1m width. The lanes may need to be increased to 3.3m so the sidewalk would only be expanded to 2.80m, but this would still be 60cm wider than current, all while allowing for on street parking and a protected bicycle lane, truly giving everyone space on the road as they deserve.

[mattgrande]

I would LOVE if we could get a street layout like that.

[SteelTown]

Plans to expand Hamilton’s Highway 6 move forward
https://www.insauga.com/plans-to-exp...-move-forward/

According to a press release, the engineering firm, AECOM, has been tasked with devising preliminary designs and studies to prepare for the expansion.

The project will increase the number of lanes from two to four along the nine-kilometre stretch of Highway 6 between the 403 and Upper James.

“Our smart, targeted highway investments, like widening Highway 6 South in Hamilton, will better connect communities, create good-paying jobs and support the needs of a growing population,” said Caroline Mulroney, Minister of Transportation, in the release.

“Four-laning this corridor will improve the movement of people and goods while serving the national, regional and local economies.”

This stretch of Highway six is particularly vital to Hamilton’s John C. Munro International Airport, as it is the most direct route to the 403.

In recent years, the airport has grown into the biggest overnight express cargo airport in Canada and this expansion is intended to improve traffic flow and the movement of goods to and from the airport.

Starting this spring, the Province expects AECOM to consult with Indigenous communities, the City, the airport and local businesses starting this spring. Preliminary design work and studies are expected to wrap up by 2024.