The 401

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I remember Top Gear Magazine did a piece on the busiest roads in the world, both Americans and Brits alike were astonished to see a Canadian highway (the 401) leading the pack... by quite a large margin.

Any idea where to find this? Sounds like an interesting read.

I'd love to see a Top Gear episode with a segment about the 401.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

I believe the 424 is the highway number they have chosen for a highway between Cambridge and Brantford. I think 426 is the corridor between Barrie and Owen Sound which has a lot of tourist traffic in the summer but I'm not sure on this one.

Have these numbers actually been formally proposed or is this speculation?

I'm curious what the connector between the 407 east extension and the 401 in Whitby will be called. Notably, the exit number on the 401 at the location of the extension is 408, and that number is available for a 400-series highway.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Have these numbers actually been formally proposed or is this speculation?

I'm curious what the connector between the 407 east extension and the 401 in Whitby will be called. Notably, the exit number on the 401 at the location of the extension is 408, and that number is available for a 400-series highway.

They will be called the East Durham Link and the West Durham Link. Very original names, eh?


------

Cool photo of the 401's busiest section on a summer morning:


Early Morning Summer Commute, Highway 401 by John Tavares Jr, on Flickr

[sa230e]

Originally Posted by haljackey

They will be called the East Durham Link and the West Durham Link. Very original names, eh?

So they'll have no numbers? Will the signs just be trailblazers, then? (for example: to/vers 401, to/vers 407)

------

Cool photo of the 401's busiest section on a summer morning:


Early Morning Summer Commute, Highway 401 by John Tavares Jr, on Flickr

That's an amazing photo.

[sonysnob]

I discussed this issue with a few friends who work for the MTO a few weeks ago, and to their knowledge, the numbers/names of the two Durham highways has not been finalized. While it is possible that they will be named something stupid, it seems unlikely to me that the new highways will remain named the west and east Durham links.

As far as I know, exactly how the signing of the east extension has yet to be finalized either, nor is it certain if the east extension will even use blue signage... (though I think it likely will).

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I'm curious what the connector between the 407 east extension and the 401 in Whitby will be called. Notably, the exit number on the 401 at the location of the extension is 408, and that number is available for a 400-series highway.

I doubt they'd use the exit numbering (especially 408, which might make sense to use if there's ever a mid-peninsula highway in Niagara). If past convention holds, the closest provincial highway numbers could be applied.

The West Durham Link will be just east of Lakeridge Rd, but Highway 12 (now just Brock St. through Whitby after it was downloaded) isn't very far east of that, so it could become the 412. Highway 35 is pretty far from where the East link may be, but it could become the 435.

Maybe they'd even apply the numbering of the regional road numbers - Lakeridge is 23, and in the east there is 34 (Courtice Rd.) and 57... though those are all provincial highway numbers elsewhere.

In the future it's possible one or both of those links could extend further north of the 407, so a route number would be desirable I think.

[sonysnob]

412 makes a lot of sense for the West Durham Link, though I don't like 435 for the east link. Hwy 35 is already a four-lane divided highway, it's not inconceivable that one day it would need to be upgraded to a controlled access freeway, like is being proposed for Hwy 11. Plus, having two major hwy's known as X35 so close to each other might be a bit confusing.

From what I understand, the MTO is putting some thought in how to brand new highways as toll roads while drawing a distinction from way that the existing 407 ETR is branded. I am not sure how they will accomplish this, but from what I understand this is why a number hasn't been applied to the WDL at this time.

[Innsertnamehere]

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that they will be 407a and 407b, the province wants to keep with the "407 toll road" theme, as te connectors will be tolled. (Silly IMO, only the mainline should if you ask me)

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

412 makes a lot of sense for the West Durham Link, though I don't like 435 for the east link. Hwy 35 is already a four-lane divided highway, it's not inconceivable that one day it would need to be upgraded to a controlled access freeway, like is being proposed for Hwy 11. Plus, having two major hwy's known as X35 so close to each other might be a bit confusing.

From what I understand, the MTO is putting some thought in how to brand new highways as toll roads while drawing a distinction from way that the existing 407 ETR is branded. I am not sure how they will accomplish this, but from what I understand this is why a number hasn't been applied to the WDL at this time.

Yeah I'm not sure 435 is a great idea either, I just wanted to note it as an option. The East link isn't really a good parallel for 35 anyway, seeing as it runs all the way up close to Huntsville.

I'm surprised 35/115 hasn't been upgraded yet - that stretch can get quite busy, and after the split 115 to Peterborough is a properly grade-separated freeway. Perhaps once the 407E is built out that far they'll have to look at doing so.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that they will be 407a and 407b, the province wants to keep with the "407 toll road" theme, as te connectors will be tolled. (Silly IMO, only the mainline should if you ask me)

No risk of any confusion happening with that naming scheme.

[sonysnob]

I too have heard of using 407 suffixes for the Durham Links. In talking to some of my friends from MTO in the past, it sounded like there were some pretty bizarre numbering proposals being floated around when the new alignment of Highway 26 opened up in Wasaga a few years ago, so hopefully there isn't a lot of weight to using suffixes.

My personal choice for the East Durham Link would be the 446. Hwy 46 was a short highway in western Victoria County, north of Lake Scugog for a number of years, which is kind of in the general vicinity. It's an unlikely choice, but I like it. Using one of the neighbouring county roads would make sense too. There isn't a Hwy 57 anywhere in the province, so it's a free number for a 400-series highway.

I don't know anything about upgrading Hwy 35, but it would, if nothing else, make sense to upgrade the section between the future 407 and the 35/115 interchange to a full freeway once the tollway is extended.

[ScreamingViking]

I meant just upgrading the stretch that's co-signed. It's under 20km long, and once the 407 connects to it traffic volumes will likely increase, especially on the section between the 407 and the 35/115 split. Just a guess, but I'd think drivers on the 401 who want to access the 407 (and vice versa) would use of the new links so maybe the 401-407 stretch could wait, though it's not a very safe highway.

35 north of the split is quite hilly as I recall. I'm not sure there's enough traffic to warrant a divided highway to Lindsay, not for a long time anyway.

[Innsertnamehere]

^traffic levels have been dropping on 35 to Lindsay over the last few years, and its only around 7,000 PPHD IIRC.

I'm still of the opinion that MTO should replace all of the RIRO Highways in the province, I find them way too unsafe. (35 and 11)

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I'm still of the opinion that MTO should replace all of the RIRO Highways in the province, I find them way too unsafe. (35 and 11)

Agreed.

I'm concerned that we'll see much of Highway 6 south of the 401 become one, especially once the planned bypass around Morriston and interchange at Highway 5 get built. It would be a cheaper way of "improving" the stretch of road between the two, but create the same issues that exist on 35/115 and parts of 11.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I too have heard of using 407 suffixes for the Durham Links. In talking to some of my friends from MTO in the past, it sounded like there were some pretty bizarre numbering proposals being floated around when the new alignment of Highway 26 opened up in Wasaga a few years ago, so hopefully there isn't a lot of weight to using suffixes.

My personal choice for the East Durham Link would be the 446. Hwy 46 was a short highway in western Victoria County, north of Lake Scugog for a number of years, which is kind of in the general vicinity. It's an unlikely choice, but I like it. Using one of the neighbouring county roads would make sense too. There isn't a Hwy 57 anywhere in the province, so it's a free number for a 400-series highway.

I don't know anything about upgrading Hwy 35, but it would, if nothing else, make sense to upgrade the section between the future 407 and the 35/115 interchange to a full freeway once the tollway is extended.

I'm not a fan of highway numerical duplication, including suffixed routes. True, there is Highway 7A and Highway 7, but those have co-existed for so long that I doubt there's confusion between them. But for future designations there should be no duplication.

County/Regional Roads also cause some confusion, particularly for average drivers who don't notice the difference between the flowerpot shape and the crown or shield shapes. There may not be much point in making changes now, however.

[eternallyme]

Both of the main RIRO highways (11 and 35/115) are too congested anyway for them to be of any use these days. Even if they are only replaced by a 4-lane freeway, it would be quite valuable, although 11 from Barrie to Orillia would need to be 6 lanes right away.

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

[haljackey]

Project announced to extend the Mavis Road 401 overpass and add the two missing links to the 401/403/410 interchange: http://www.401expansion-mississauga....79%20FINAL.pdf

This will prepare the 401 for ultimate widening through Mississauga, whatever that means.

[Innsertnamehere]

It means that they plan to eventually bring the Express-Collectors system all the way to the 407. In a few years the Express Collectors system could run from the 407 all the way to (I think) Salem road, with the exception of that small stretch by the airport.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Both of the main RIRO highways (11 and 35/115) are too congested anyway for them to be of any use these days. Even if they are only replaced by a 4-lane freeway, it would be quite valuable, although 11 from Barrie to Orillia would need to be 6 lanes right away.

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

I think that they will close the existing Hwy 37 interchange and punch a new alignment for Hwy 37 southerly from the Cannifton By-pass down to Hwy 2 along the eastern urbanized limits of Belleville.

Check out the old plan here:
http://belleville.ca/images/uploads/...Y_AUG_1990.pdf

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I think the next widenings need to be to the east of the GTA, particularly from Kingston to Cobourg. The first place to start could be through Belleville (although the fact that there are three interchanges in close proximity warrants a design change), and through Trenton (there are three interchanges not as close but traffic increases somewhat).

Through Belleville, there are two choices: an 8-lane cross section around the Highway 62 and 37 interchanges (to help with the weaving) or a 10-lane cross section with C-D roads (3+2 on each side) to serve the two interchanges. That requires new bridges on the Moira River but would isolate the weaving from the through traffic completely. Through Trenton, a normal 6-lane cross-section would be sufficient though.

After those are done, the gaps can be filled in for a continuous 6-lane corridor from Kingston to Cobourg (and 6+ lanes from at least west of London, perhaps Windsor, all the way to Kingston).

I wonder if instead you could keep it at 6 lanes but remove some of on and off ramps at the Hwy 62 cloverleaf interchange and replace it with a Parclo AB2 (ramps on west side of interchange)


source: http://www.mattigronroos.fi/Tiet/Liittymat.htm

FYI another interchange may be planned on the east side of Belleville for 2021-2026 (Transportation Master Plan - Jan 2014 open house http://www.belleville.ca/residents/p...on-master-plan)