What to do with Radio Canada and the CBC?

[acottawa]

I think CBC radio generally does a good job of what it is trying to accomplish (and in some places is the only readily accessible media so is of critical importance) but I must admit to puzzlement over people’s love of CBC Television. It is mostly super bland pablum, I assume for people who have medical conditions that make overstimulation dangerous. It is clearly the product of committee thinking and is completely deferential to the government without any sense of irony or self deprecation. It has its moments sometimes, but if people are looking for high brow there is generally way better content on TVO, PBS, HBO, BBC, Netflix or YouTube.

[isaidso]

I was a strong backer of the CBC for a good 20 years but not any more. Today it's little more than an outlet for US news, Donald Trump tweets, and the British monarchy. Do they really need to comment on every tweet the US president makes or what some UK royal likes to eat for breakfast? Utter garbage and a waste of my time. They have tunnel vision for those 2 countries while practically ignoring the other 200+ nations around the world; including their own.

I get my world news by clicking on news stories I deem relevant online. I stopped relying on CBC as they've turned into a colossal joke. Do they even have a sports department any more? Who knows.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I was a strong backer of the CBC for a good 20 years but not any more. Today it's little more than an outlet for US news, Donald Trump tweets, and the British monarchy. Do they really need to comment on every tweet the US president makes or what some UK royal likes to eat for breakfast? Utter garbage and a waste of my time. They have tunnel vision for those 2 countries while practically ignoring the other 200+ nations around the world; including their own.

I get my world news by clicking on news stories I deem relevant online. I stopped relying on CBC as they've turned into a colossal joke. Do they even have a sports department any more? Who knows.

I agree with your points but I still support the English-language CBC.

You are correct about how they tend to focus way too much on things such as Trump's tweets or the British monarchy. Not much diversity in their coverage. Many conservative-type people call the CBC a left-wing or socialist organization when in fact the network will often be backwards or out of touch with those on the left. A common complaint that I agree with is that the CBC often represents too much Toronto and to a lesser extent Vancouver. And often certain regional cities are over-represented. But we could debate forever about fairness and coverage.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Many conservative-type people call the CBC a left-wing or socialist organization when in fact the network will often be backwards or out of touch with those on the left.

I agree with you only in the sense that the left wing agenda of the CBC has been hijacked away from traditional socialist causes such as expanding the welfare state and protecting medicare, and instead has been supplanted by victimology and identity politics. This sort of shift in coverage is really divisive and pits people against people. The CBC should return more to the more inclusive aspects of traditional socialism (such as maintaining the social welfare system), which, in it's own way is just as much a form of nation building as is building highways or pipelines.

Identity politics is just purely toxic in any form..........

[ssiguy]

I know that comparing the success of the BBC to CBC is a tempting one but it`s not a fair one. The BBC serves 50% more people but doesn`t have to provide services in 2 official languages over 6 different time zones.


I think it fair to say that we all agree that French CBC is a success and CBC Radio English is also one and are embraced by the public. The problem is with CBC English TV and it`s a big one. In trying to serve everyone it end up appealing to no one.


I would ditch every single local TV news network which are already served by countless local news stations which provide local coverage. Have only the National running at 10pm from Toronto with one person like it use to be. Take those huge saved funds and provide quality commercial free programming of all types in the evening with some local broadccasting...........in other words the PBS model.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I know that comparing the success of the BBC to CBC is a tempting one but it`s not a fair one. The BBC serves 50% more people but doesn`t have to provide services in 2 official languages over 6 different time zones.

.

None of these factors are really an impediment to the CBC being more successful than it is at the moment.

If anything the fact that Canada is so large and diverse provides more opportunities for diverse content rooted in widely differing realities. There is more potential there, not less.

If only people were interested...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I would ditch every single local TV news network which are already served by countless local news stations which provide local coverage. .

The CBC doesn't really have local news networks. It has a 6 pm newscast and an 11 pm newscast in a number of markets across the country, and that's it. And a lot of reasonably large markets don't even have local CBC TV news and some of them don't even have local CBC radio.

I'd also disagree that most places in Canada are very well served by private local news outlets.

[wave46]

The malaise of CBC television is more indicative of the malaise of television in general.

The deluge of content from the late 1990s on and the internet just simply allowed people to choose exactly what they wanted. That, combined with services like Netflix - who imposes less rigid controls on content, allowing more creative freedom (and more inventive programming) - drove viewers away from broadcast television in general.

Anyone who thinks US broadcast television is, you know, good is deluding themselves. There's occasional decent shows on the smaller networks, but it's just largely tripe. Even services like Netflix and Amazon Prime have a fairly limited selection of good stuff.

I don't have much to offer in terms of advice to the CBC for television. The US Big 4 networks are mining whatever nostalgia as a placeholder until their rapidly greying audience fades away. The constraints of broadcast television seem to be dooming it to extinction, aside from news/sports and special events.

CBC Radio is good. Ironically, I think radio has a stronger chance of survival than television, despite the booming podcasting phenomenon. The lack of competition from the US on radio airwaves and the fact that one can listen while doing other things (at work, in the car, etc.) might protect its niche.

[MolsonExport]

Some of my favorite stuff on Netflix are documentaries and historical or nature series, produced by the BBC and PBS.

Network TV has indeed declined. Part of that is due to the dumbing-down of content ("reality" show garbage, attention-whoring pseudo-celebrities, and formulaic sitcoms). The other part is of course due to the shift to specialty channels like HBO and streaming content.

In terms of film, Hollywood has really declined in recent years. Almost everthing is now some stupid reboot of some stupid superhero character, or some mixing of stupid superhero characters. There is the odd superhero film that isn't total garbage (e.g., Logan) but most are just terrible, much like those awful Michael Bay movies of about 15-20 years ago (explosions, EXPLOSIONS, and MORE EXPLOSIONS!).

[wave46]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Some of my favorite stuff on Netflix are documentaries and historical or nature series, produced by the BBC and PBS.

Network TV has indeed declined. Part of that is due to the dumbing-down of content ("reality" show garbage, attention-whoring pseudo-celebrities, and formulaic sitcoms). The other part is of course due to the shift to specialty channels like HBO and streaming content.

In terms of film, Hollywood has really declined in recent years. Almost everthing is now some stupid reboot of some stupid superhero character, or some mixing of stupid superhero characters. There is the odd superhero film that isn't total garbage (e.g., Logan) but most are just terrible, much like those awful Michael Bay movies of about 15-20 years ago (explosions, EXPLOSIONS, and MORE EXPLOSIONS!).

There's a lot more to unpack here and I don't think there's been a 'dumbing down' as much as we've reached the limitations of the traditional television.

With traditional television, you have to provide fairly generic entertainment - one that appeals to a wide audience (or wide enough to be profitable in a given time slot), make the story fit in a given timeframe (1/2hr to 1hr), have the story have a certain tempo (gotta fit in those commercials!) and a story arc that lasts enough to make 13 or 26 episodes in a season.

Specialty channels and streaming don't have those limitations. By upending those limitations, you can explore a lot deeper into certain topics and write a story however one sees fit (within reasonable bounds). Netflix doesn't care about number of episodes and how long they are - they just want buzz and people to keep subscribing. Arguably, The Sopranos was the poster child of this in the late 1990s, albeit with HBO.

It's hard to go back to McDonald's as a special treat once you've had a really good gourmet burger.

The film industry has always been the balance between business and creativity. Nobody's going to give me $200m for an art project film - there has to be some reasonable expectation of return. That lends itself to corporate-think - keep churning out the stuff that makes money. That leads itself to a conservative thinking that quickly can grow stale. Then again, sometimes that allows new creativity to flourish (see: Logan, the first Deadpool) within a genre.

Indeed, the bottom of the film market is moving towards streaming, as Netflix and the like gobbles up content that would have gone direct-to-video before.

I'm not sure I want to write the obituary for film yet. Looking at the Best of Films of the 2010s on Google, I see a fair bit of creativity. Sure, they don't dominate the box office, but they're there.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by wave46

The film industry has always been the balance between business and creativity. Nobody's going to give me $200m for an art project film - there has to be some reasonable expectation of return. That lends itself to corporate-think - keep churning out the stuff that makes money. That leads itself to a conservative thinking that quickly can grow stale. Then again, sometimes that allows new creativity to flourish (see: Logan, the first Deadpool) within a genre.

That has always been the case. What is fairly new is nearly every major release is a reboot or sequel. Studios used to green light original scripts and make huge amounts of money off them (Star Wars, Ghostbusters, ET, Sixth Sense).

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I agree with your points but I still support the English-language CBC.

You are correct about how they tend to focus way too much on things such as Trump's tweets or the British monarchy. Not much diversity in their coverage. Many conservative-type people call the CBC a left-wing or socialist organization when in fact the network will often be backwards or out of touch with those on the left. A common complaint that I agree with is that the CBC often represents too much Toronto and to a lesser extent Vancouver. And often certain regional cities are over-represented. But we could debate forever about fairness and coverage.B]

The fact that Atlantic Canada has twice as many CBC radio/Radio-Canada affiliates as the 3x more populace Prairie Provinces says a lot about variable representation across Canada. (so unfamiliar on The Prairies, I had to wiki Radio-Canada to find out it actually stands for CBC french )

If CBC were to be more responsible for it's funding like the private broadcasters have to, there would be even better advertising for not only private sector but also better media representation across the country.

example, CBC TV Saskatchewan is only one of six TV network affiliates in the province,
Global & CTV Regina, Global & CTV Saskatoon and CityTV Saskatchewan are the others.
also a city like Lethbridge has a Global TV affiliate... but no CBC affiliate.

Originally posted by MonctonRad

I agree with you only in the sense that the left wing agenda of the CBC has been hijacked away from traditional socialist causes such as expanding the welfare state and protecting medicare, and instead has been supplanted by victimology and identity politics. This sort of shift in coverage is really divisive and pits people against people. The CBC should return more to the more inclusive aspects of traditional socialism (such as maintaining the social welfare system), which, in it's own way is just as much a form of nation building as is building highways or pipelines.

Identity politics is just purely toxic in any form..........

That's part of the reason why in province like Saskatchewan, CBC has lost a lot of respectability due to it's irresponsible reporting of news facts on provincial and on national level. The CBC incorrectly reporting that death of Saskatchewan first nations Colten Boushie as innocent bystander looking for help for flat tire on Gerald Stanley farm was an example of that, or CBC not bothering to report local news such as when miners are stranded in Saskatchewan potash mine fires over the last few years etc etc. something even The Canadian Press reports.

CBC Saskatchewan radio has lost several percentage points in last couple years alone and listeners in Saskatoon and Regina represent less than a half or a third the percentage of listeners in other cities in BC and east half of Canada.

The cost of keeping CBC relevant in Canada is becoming more and more unaffordable. The average CBC employee's 6 figure salary is in top 10% of entire Canadian workforce.

Not only are CBC employees overpaid, their performance has been questionable. Their advertising revenues have fallen 32 per cent in just the last year, and 12.2 per cent annually for the past five years.

Already costing taxpayers $1.04 billion in 2015 and facing rising competition, the CBC's fiscal burden set to jump by $75 million in 2016 and $150 million in 2017.

News media is undergoing a rapid and beautiful process of creative destruction: digitalization means vastly lower costs, fewer barriers to entry, and a wider variety of competing options for consumers to enjoy. Amid this innovation and weeding out stands the too-big-to-fail albatross, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blog...cbcs-privilege

I think CBC should take on the form of what PBS & NPR is like in the States, it would get more viewers/listeners than it does now and probably get more respectability abroad.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

I think CBC should take on the form of what PBS & NPR is like in the States, it would get more viewers/listeners than it does now and probably get more respectability abroad.

The CBC does have a fair amount of renown among learned Americans for its news and public affairs coverage.

Americans living along the border are often especially fond of the CBC for news and public affairs as I said, and also for its Olympic coverage.

There is also a tiny niche of Americans who appreciate the CBC's fictional and variety programming too. It's odd for them when they meet Canadians and are all excited to talk about CBC show X Y or Z, and often the Canadian has never even heard of it!

Beyond that though the CBC isn't really that renowned worldwide it's true.

But that's not unique to the CBC, and is more indicative of the global reach of Canadian stuff in general, which is either mistaken for U.S. stuff or simply ignored.

[flar]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think CBC radio generally does a good job of what it is trying to accomplish (and in some places is the only readily accessible media so is of critical importance) but I must admit to puzzlement over people’s love of CBC Television. It is mostly super bland pablum, I assume for people who have medical conditions that make overstimulation dangerous. It is clearly the product of committee thinking and is completely deferential to the government without any sense of irony or self deprecation. It has its moments sometimes, but if people are looking for high brow there is generally way better content on TVO, PBS, HBO, BBC, Netflix or YouTube.

I'm not sure if I know any CBC TV shows. I watched Kids in the Hall back in the day.

I don't often watch over the air TV anymore, I just download specific shows I want to watch. However, I would tune in to CBC for things like election coverage, or the Hip's final concert.

[saffronleaf]

This might be controversial, but I would love it if CBC English played a few of the most acclaimed and/or popular shows on CBC French with English subtitles (e.g., Tout le monde en parle). It doesn't have to be reciprocal (i.e., CBC French doesn't need to play CBC English shows). This would be more in the context of encouraging bilingualism in English Canada, but also helps fill air time with more quality programming.

I think they should devote a bit more time to covering international matters, and a bit less time covering US matters.

They should definitely receive more funding.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

This might be controversial, but I would love it if CBC English played a few of the most acclaimed and/or popular shows on CBC French with English subtitles (e.g., Tout le monde en parle). It doesn't have to be reciprocal (i.e., CBC French doesn't need to play CBC English shows). This would be more in the context of encouraging bilingualism in English Canada, but also helps fill air time with more quality programming.

I think they should devote a bit more time to covering international matters, and a bit less time covering US matters.

They should definitely receive more funding.

Great idea, I would support this.

And in addition, I would like to see more programming from the UK, Australia, NZ, etc. to help bring back the commonwealth culture into this country. I think it would be well received by English Canada.

[acottawa]

I think Radio One generally works, maybe could use some tweaks and maybe a little less repeated programming.

I have no idea what CBC Music is supposed to be, and it’s ratings are abysmal, so I may not be the only one that can’t figure it out. Maybe less “eclectic mixes” and more programming with with specific genres that people could tune into if they can’t readily access streaming.

I think CBC TV needs to decide what it is supposed to be. They have pretty much abandoned terrestrial broadcasting, so an “access” raison d’être won’t work. They have very little informative programming, which is a core mandate of most public broadcasters.

Personally I would bring back terrestrial broadcasting, get rid of the awful sitcoms, add more informative programming and get rid of local news except where CBC is the only local news.

[vid]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

This might be controversial, but I would love it if CBC English played a few of the most acclaimed and/or popular shows on CBC French with English subtitles (e.g., Tout le monde en parle). It doesn't have to be reciprocal (i.e., CBC French doesn't need to play CBC English shows). This would be more in the context of encouraging bilingualism in English Canada, but also helps fill air time with more quality programming.

I think they should devote a bit more time to covering international matters, and a bit less time covering US matters.

They should definitely receive more funding.

I'm not sure Tout le monde en parle is the best example for that since it's sort of a Quebec-centred public affairs show (though it would probably help non-Francophone Canadians understand Francophone Canadians better if they were to watch it), but I agree with the idea. In much of Europe, they air each other's shows with local language subtitles or dubbing, so I don't see why we can't do that here. It would probably even save CBC money, since they'd have to produce fewer shows.

The biggest downside though would be that some aspects of comedy and some cultural references will be lost in translation, and a lot of what already exists more likely than not has a lot of that kind of content in it. It can be resolved with creative writing but if it isn't done well, it can turn people off of a show too. A lot of CBC's English comedies make heavy use of puns that simply can't work in French.

[vid]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I have no idea what CBC Music is supposed to be, and it’s ratings are abysmal, so I may not be the only one that can’t figure it out. Maybe less “eclectic mixes” and more programming with with specific genres that people could tune into if they can’t readily access streaming.

As an avid listener to CBC Music, allow me to fill you in:

So first off, it's commercial free. They tried commercials a few years ago but I think some other radio stations sued them and they were ordered to get rid of them.

Midnight to 9am is a mix of popular and indie music from the 80s to present day, though light on rap music (what if played is typically either can con or something from the 80s that was foundational to the development of the genre), and there is a morning show host from 6 to 9. It's just like any other morning show, though less of the shitty "humour" segments most stations try to pull, more trivia and stories about the artists and their music. It's office appropriate. I wouldn't refer to this as an "eclectic mix", it's pretty consistent with the kind of music I was already listening to for years before I started listening to CBC music. If you're referring to the programming in general, there is some stuff that's not very popular but the weekday is really consistent.

9am to 2pm is classical music, great background noise for work. Often there is some kind of theme that ties the day's selections together, and there is a lot of background info about the artists and the pieces that actually makes it quite interesting. Only thing I don't like about it: classical music does this thing, a lot, where it gets really quiet, pauses for a moment, and then all the instruments start playing loudly. At least twice I week, I think the radio is turned down, turn it up, and then get blasted by an orchestra coming to life. This is the only segment of appreciable length during the course of the day that has classical music anymore, and it's been this way for a while. They used to have some classical stuff in the evenings but that changed last year.

2pm to 7pm is a similar playlist to the morning. I should note that from 1pm to 3:30pm, is a single programme that starts with classical music, then transitions to more modern music, but never really ties them together in a meaningful way. Their version of the drive home is hosted by Rich Terfry (Buck 65) and is actually pretty good, he shares a lot of interesting trivia. Friday at 6pm to 7pm, they pick an album and play it in its entirety, with trivia and stories about the band and the process of making the album, and that's usually worth listening to, especially if it's a band you like. Usually it will be some kind of noteworthy date related to it, like an anniversary of the album's release or the bands formation, or to commemorate the death of a band member, etc.

7pm to 8pm is different programming depending on the day of the week. On Monday, it's a recorded live concert (tonight was the Walk Off the Earth special from last week). Tuesday is "Q The Music" which is just a compilation of the musical segments from the previous week of Q. Wednesday is an indigenous focused programme called Reclaimed, which highlights music by indigenous artists from around the world, spanning the past 200 years. Thursday is their top 20 countdown (which only plays 10-14 of the actual songs, due to time constraints). Friday they have a show called Marvin's Room which is R&B. Generally I'm only listening to CBC 2 at this time on Wednesday and Thursday.

8pm to Midnight is a programme called Afterdark, and it's like the 12-9 and 2-7 playlists, except more focus on slower, quieter music, a lot of experimental stuff, generally a more relaxing playlist. It tends to get more mellow as the night goes on. It's a great selection for driving around aimlessly at night.

Weekend programming, I typically don't listen to, but it's the same standard playlist from midnight to 9am as it is in the week. Saturdays, 9 to 10 is a programme where contemporary music artists share music that inspired them, and 10 to 12 does the same but with classical music. 12 to 1 is classical music, 1 to 6 is Saturday Afternoon at the Opera, 6 to 8 is Blues and 8 to midnight is jazz.

Sunday, 9am is a choral music segment (for churchgoers I guess), 10 to 3 is more classical, 3 to 4 is a repeat of the contemporary music show from Saturday morning, 4 to 5 is a French music show, 5 to 6 is a repeat of the countdown, 7 to 8 is something random every week, and 8 to midnight is George Stromoloupolous' ego stroking crapfest. All he played last night for four hours was Joni Mitchell and I happen to think she's a terrible singer. No offensce.

So, aside from getting rid of George Stromoloupolos, how would you improve this?

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by vid

I'm not sure Tout le monde en parle is the best example for that since it's sort of a Quebec-centred public affairs show (though it would probably help non-Francophone Canadians understand Francophone Canadians better if they were to watch it), but I agree with the idea. In much of Europe, they air each other's shows with local language subtitles or dubbing, so I don't see why we can't do that here. It would probably even save CBC money, since they'd have to produce fewer shows.

The biggest downside though would be that some aspects of comedy and some cultural references will be lost in translation, and a lot of what already exists more likely than not has a lot of that kind of content in it. It can be resolved with creative writing but if it isn't done well, it can turn people off of a show too. A lot of CBC's English comedies make heavy use of puns that simply can't work in French.

I can't stand dubbing. But yea, for anyone from multilingual regions like Europe or India you're used to watching other language shows and movies with subtitles in your language. I think there was some CBC news piece on how watching foreign language films with subtitles has gained popularity a bit in Canada (in part due to recent immigrants but also among multigenerational people). So hopefully that bodes well for subtitled French language media on CBC English.

You're right that some jokes may get lost in translation, but it's just an inconvenience. On the bright side, watching subtitled media can help in learning and retaining your knowledge of the language (in this case French).