Austin | 305 S. Congress | 6 Towers - 215'/295'/365'/375'/445'/525' | Proposed

[jngreenlee]

Personally I dislike the use of Portland's South Waterfront as a model for Austin's South Waterfront. My wife and I own a second home near Portland's South Waterfront.

The main problem in the comparison is that the PDX development is a monolithic build of a new district, reclaimed at once from some prior low-density use (AFAIK). It's a large, dense buildout, probably by one master developer. The result is something completely new, not organically developed within the character of the city.

I am pro-density, and not against such things in general, but PDX's version is cut off and separated from the rest of the city. It feels like a residential amusement park with tall buildings, some nice restaurants...and then you have to get in your car to get to real downtown or anywhere else.

The fabric of the old and new will surely expand and meld together, but we're not there yet. This is what makes this a troublesome comparison. The photos look great, the financial aspects will be appealing to developers, esp. if they can get the city to support the model.

Meanwhile, back in Austin, the South Waterfront is not a sleepy area yet to be reclaimed. It is a busy crossroads, that already is and will always be tied to downtown and South Congress. I'd prefer to see comparisons to downtown revitalization efforts that have encouraged/maximized private investment and density one structure at a time.

Also, just food for thought - the days of cheap dollars -might- be waning. QE tightening and future interest rate hikes may show that our boom has in part been fueled by cheap money for institutional investors. South Waterfront may not have the right properties available soon enough.

[Jdawgboy]

Jngreenlee has a point, the South Shore is not like say Green or Seaholm for example, it's already a bustling part of the city and it's neither a quiet empty place nor a neighborhood. I like the idea of improving the infrastructure, but rather than create large swaths of set development, the area should be built piece by piece depending on the particular needs and demands. The overall area can be guided to a specific outcome but if large parts are predesigned then that sets a cap on density right from the beginning. This area is basically an extension of Downtown. It needs to be treated as such whether the surrounding NIMBY's like it or not.

[KevinFromTexas]

It needs some direction, though. We don't want another Rainey Street area with fugly parking garages and no street level retail.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It needs some direction, though. We don't want another Rainey Street area with fugly parking garages and no street level retail.

I agree, guidelines should be set as to how the buildings should interact with the streetscape.

[AustinYIMBY]

Am I the only one who thinks this would be a perfect spot for a new stadium that could host an MLS team in the future?
1. The MLS has stated that they are looking for their expansion teams to have a stadium downtown.
2. This is one of the last areas downtown that would be large enough to hold a stadium.
3. With a new bridge crossing the river at that location, it would be perfect for tying into and create public transportation options.
4. This stadium could be used for many other events and Austin needs a large concert venue downtown, especially with the Erwin Center closing in the future. leaving some (but not many) surface parking lots would keep areas for events like ROT Rally and others.
5. Many stadium projects now are built as mixed use developments, so you could have dense use around the stadium. Look at Detroit's plan for the new Red Wings stadium project. And Minnesota's new FB stadium
6. And finally... think about the potential views from the stadium...

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

Am I the only one who thinks this would be a perfect spot for a new stadium that could host an MLS team in the future?
1. The MLS has stated that they are looking for their expansion teams to have a stadium downtown.
2. This is one of the last areas downtown that would be large enough to hold a stadium.
3. With a new bridge crossing the river at that location, it would be perfect for tying into and create public transportation options.
4. This stadium could be used for many other events and Austin needs a large concert venue downtown, especially with the Erwin Center closing in the future. leaving some (but not many) surface parking lots would keep areas for events like ROT Rally and others.
5. Many stadium projects now are built as mixed use developments, so you could have dense use around the stadium. Look at Detroit's plan for the new Red Wings stadium project. And Minnesota's new FB stadium
6. And finally... think about the potential views from the stadium...

I agree with you. In fact I think they stated in a past article that the AAS site is one of the possibilities. I doubt traffic would be any worse than when there are other major events like at Auditorium Shores. If mass transit is done right then there shouldn't be a major traffic issue.

[ClendonRoss]

Originally Posted by kadingpa

Am I the only one who thinks this would be a perfect spot for a new stadium that could host an MLS team in the future?

I'm with you on this! Austin is a great demographic fit for MLS and a downtown stadium is a must to land a franchise. I think just east of I-35 would work as well but I don't know if there is large enough tract that isn't already being developed/planned for development.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by ClendonRoss

I'm with you on this! Austin is a great demographic fit for MLS and a downtown stadium is a must to land a franchise. I think just east of I-35 would work as well but I don't know if there is large enough tract that isn't already being developed/planned for development.

Welcome to SSP ClendonRoss, I take it your a soccer fan. Feel free to post any news or info regarding the Austin Aztex, please share it with us.

[Cloud92]

The traffic that would cause

[NYC2ATX]

That PDF was awesome, informative and comprehensive. I have to say, my single favorite feature outlined was most detailed around pages 46-50.

The central "rambla" they intend to build is great for a number of reasons. It will give the South Shore area a unique and fantastic public space which is sorely lacking that far east on Riverside. If executed correctly, it could become an iconic space associated with the city. I imagine one would look straight down it and across the river to land their eye directly upon the to-be-built Waller Park Place and Fairmont projects. One might even catch an urban rail train crossing the river in the foreground. Basically, all kinds of awesome, a must-catch photo of Austin circa 2023

[drummer]

Those arch bridges in the first rendering look to be I-35. That'd be a pretty cool aesthetic addition if they ever needed to replace the bridges. Also, I really like the smaller HEB concept as shown in the third rendering. As downtown densifies (as well as the south shore central area), that'd be a great addition.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by drummer

Those arch bridges in the first rendering look to be I-35. That'd be a pretty cool aesthetic addition if they ever needed to replace the bridges.

I think that's supposed to be the bridge that connects the South Shore to Trinity Street on the North Shore.

[Cloud92]

I think the bridge went out with the bid last year?

[wwmiv]

I would actually advocate for a small section of the trail in that area to be more mixed use in its approach, just like this proposal gets at.

[cvalkan]

Those steps would make a good impromptu amphitheater if they'd include a stage/bandstand on the river side. Wouldn't be very comfortable in the day from May to September, though. Grand Rapids has a smaller version on their river. Design it right and you could enjoy a concert from the water, too. Probably a stupid idea.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by cvalkan

Those steps would make a good impromptu amphitheater if they'd include a stage/bandstand on the river side. Wouldn't be very comfortable in the day from May to September, though. Grand Rapids has a smaller version on their river. Design it right and you could enjoy a concert from the water, too. Probably a stupid idea.

It's a great idea. I really would love to monetize a stretch of the riverfront with patio restaurants and other commercial-esque promenades to take advantage of skyline views in this area. It would be easy to extend the boardwalk to go around so that we could keep the runners and cyclists unobstructed. It's this kind of grand thinking that would take this city to a truly world class level.

[Novacek]

Looks like the Statesman is now moving out of their site, or at least the printing

http://www.statesman.com/news/busine...ress-ro/nk6Qk/

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Looks like the Statesman is now moving out of their site, or at least the printing

http://www.statesman.com/news/busine...ress-ro/nk6Qk/

Good news (except for those laid off)... this is the first step to redeveloping that sweet spot. My guess is they will want to sell to get cash on hand considering that business model isn't working (digital newspaper subscrips). Hope they don't sell to an apartment builder. We need a public/private offer... time for that soccer stadium

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by ATXboom

Good news (except for those laid off)... this is the first step to redeveloping that sweet spot. My guess is they will want to sell to get cash on hand considering that business model isn't working (digital newspaper subscrips). Hope they don't sell to an apartment builder. We need a public/private offer... time for that soccer stadium

Cox has some pretty deep pockets and a large broadband/cable operation to provide cash flow. I suspect they will not do a quick sale just to raise money, but I am sure that the parcel is now in play and attracting a lot of interest.

[drummer]

It's a stretch, but they could always do a sort of stage on a small barge or something and just bring it out when it's needed so there's not a bandstand/stage there all the time.