Winnipeg | 2525 Pembina Hwy |The Arc | 16 Floors | U/C

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

It is in fact rather disingenuous of the developer to call it a walkable area.

How so? Served by multiple bus routes, <5 minute walk to a grocery store, 20 minute walk to the university, 5 minute walk to Shopper's Drug Mart, 10 minutes to the public library. TD and BMO in <10 minutes. Under 20 minutes to RBC and Sobey's. Tons of restaurants, chain and indie, all within 5-15 minutes walk).

It's an area with shitty design that feels hostile and barren for pedestrians, but in terms of the basic "can I walk everywhere I need to go", this area is much more walkable than Osborne Village or Wolseley or whatever neighbourhood we urbanist types tend to prefer.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

How so? Served by multiple bus routes, <5 minute walk to a grocery store, 20 minute walk to the university, 5 minute walk to Shopper's Drug Mart, 10 minutes to the public library. TD and BMO in <10 minutes. Under 20 minutes to RBC and Sobey's. Tons of restaurants, chain and indie, all within 5-15 minutes walk).

It's an area with shitty design that feels hostile and barren for pedestrians, but in terms of the basic "can I walk everywhere I need to go", this area is much more walkable than Osborne Village or Wolseley or whatever neighbourhood we urbanist types tend to prefer.

That last bit is a bit (a lot) of a stretch. There are plenty of walkable amenities in those places, up to and including a large grocery store, which doesn't necessarily mean a good grocery store just to remind people. Plus the built environment actually makes the pedestrian feel welcome.

This place is close to a superstore and a bunch of other things sort of near by but I still wouldn't consider it walkable. The term implies all of these urbanist ideas, and conjures up visions of places like Osborne and Wolseley and to use the term incorrectly confuses proximity with walkability (and even though it may be "close" in that area, things are still pretty spread out. It doesn't really have the potential to be a real walkable neighbourhood, since its design does not promote a good pedestrian environment)

[Andy6]

Walkability should be independent of whether a neighbourhood resembles a stage set for a production of “Our Town”. If you can walk to Costco, that’s fantastic walkability in my opinion!

[optimusREIM]

FYI if we want to actually compare those places that were mentioned, why not use Walkscore? Comparisons:

2525 Pembina: 58/100
100 Roslyn (as OV as I could think of) : 90/100
846 Westminster (Right smack in the middle of Wolseley) : 86/100

For your personal enjoyment and convenience:

https://www.walkscore.com/

Walkscore is the walkability rating of a neighbourhood.

Let's find a place next to a Costco, just for fun.

Say the one at Kenaston crossing, let's take the nearest dwelling which would be located at 2350 MacGillivray Blvd: 61/100, which is shockingly high for a place which has mediocre transit access at best, but still nowhere near what the walkscore of OV and Wolseley are.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

up to and including a large grocery store, which doesn't necessarily mean a good grocery store just to remind people.

Find me anyone who wouldn't trade the Osborne Village Safeway or Wolseley Food Fair for the Pembina and Bison Superstore, which has better prices, way more selection, and an amazing international foods aisle.

Anyways, your point is well taken that I was really talking about this being better for proximity to amenities (though worse for the actual feel of walkability).

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

Find me anyone who wouldn't trade the Osborne Village Safeway or Wolseley Food Fair for the Pembina and Bison Superstore, which has better prices, way more selection, and an amazing international foods aisle.

Anyways, your point is well taken that I was really talking about this being better for proximity to amenities (though worse for the actual feel of walkability).

I don't need a superstore for most of my shopping. I have certain perishables which need frequent replenishing, produce, milk, bread, etc. but when I need some more specialty items then I might make the trip out to superstore to grab something that may be harder to find.

I understand that prices may be better at stores like superstore but I find it so intriguing the lengths that people are willing to go to for a slightly better price. I prefer the convenience factor of having a store with most of the items I need at a slightly higher prices very nearby to having to hike out to a place where I can find everything at a lowerish price but requires me to go way out of my way to do it.

I guess for the specific thing we're discussing it's a matter of taste. I way prefer being in a centrally located neighbourhood that is somewhat close to everything than to live across the parking lot from a big box store but having poor accessibility to the downtown or a long commute.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

FYI if we want to actually compare those places that were mentioned, why not use Walkscore? Comparisons:

2525 Pembina: 58/100
100 Roslyn (as OV as I could think of) : 90/100
846 Westminster (Right smack in the middle of Wolseley) : 86/100

The one thing to be aware of with Walkscore is that it doesn't always do a great job of categorizing amenities. So, its grocery walkability is heavily affected by the presence of convenience stores. It even counts Stellas as a "bakery" for its grocery walkability calculation for 100 Roslyn.

So, who has better grocery accessibility? 2525 Pembina, with a Superstore next door and a Sobey's a 15 minute walk away? Or 100 Roslyn, with only the Safeway nearby and then a bunch of c-stores?

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

I don't need a superstore for most of my shopping. I have certain perishables which need frequent replenishing, produce, milk, bread, etc. but when I need some more specialty items then I might make the trip out to superstore to grab something that may be harder to find.

I understand that prices may be better at stores like superstore but I find it so intriguing the lengths that people are willing to go to for a slightly better price. I prefer the convenience factor of having a store with most of the items I need at a slightly higher prices very nearby to having to hike out to a place where I can find everything at a lowerish price but requires me to go way out of my way to do it.

I guess for the specific thing we're discussing it's a matter of taste. I way prefer being in a centrally located neighbourhood that is somewhat close to everything than to live across the parking lot from a big box store but having poor accessibility to the downtown or a long commute.

Don't get me wrong, I also prefer a real neighbourhood, and I'm not itching to move to this Pembina wasteland.

But the quality and selection at Superstore are both so much better than Safeway. Safeway's produce is terrible, their bakery is terrible, their selection of international foods is practically non existent.

Pembina is shitty, but the influx of Asian students nearby has meant very positive things for grocery stores in the south end

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

The one thing to be aware of with Walkscore is that it doesn't always do a great job of categorizing amenities. So, its grocery walkability is heavily affected by the presence of convenience stores. It even counts Stellas as a "bakery" for its grocery walkability calculation for 100 Roslyn.

So, who has better grocery accessibility? 2525 Pembina, with a Superstore next door and a Sobey's a 15 minute walk away? Or 100 Roslyn, with only the Safeway nearby and then a bunch of c-stores?

Yeah but your characterization leaves out the fact that from 100 Roslyn you could walk to work downtown fairly easily. Also, I do believe that that Stella's does in fact sell bread (I know they do at a couple of places anyways). OV is also a stone's throw from the whole Corydon strip which is a pretty big one if you ask me. Name me one patio near 2525 Pembina... The only one that's sort of close is Smitty's

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

FYI if we want to actually compare those places that were mentioned, why not use Walkscore? Comparisons:

2525 Pembina: 58/100
100 Roslyn (as OV as I could think of) : 90/100
846 Westminster (Right smack in the middle of Wolseley) : 86/100

For your personal enjoyment and convenience:

https://www.walkscore.com/

It's too bad Winnipeg Transit never thinks outside the box, sometimes...

If the University of Manitoba, WT and IG Stadium could get together and chip in 33/33/33 (or 25/25/25/25 if including retailers, bars etc), an U of M circular loop route between the grocery stores, stadium, University and residential - although it may not help the walkability score - would improve things drastically and at least, make Pembina look alot less like 28 Weeks Later, during... well... every single day.

[buzzg]

That 20 minute walk tomthr university has gotta be just about as awful as a 20 minute walk could be. Especially in winter. Even in summer, it's so windy and dusty as hell. Need safety goggles.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by buzzg

That 20 minute walk tomthr university has gotta be just about as awful as a 20 minute walk could be. Especially in winter. Even in summer, it's so windy and dusty as hell. Need safety goggles.

I agree but I'm not sure that the walk really matters. Students all have U-passes and there is direct transit service from Pembina & Bison to the UofM on the 51, 74, 78, and in a pinch the 162 and 137. With effectively free bus service on your doorstep, why make the long boring slog down Chancellor Matheson?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

I agree but I'm not sure that the walk really matters. Students all have U-passes and there is direct transit service from Pembina & Bison to the UofM on the 51, 74, 78, and in a pinch the 162 and 137. With effectively free bus service on your doorstep, why make the long boring slog down Chancellor Matheson?

Because the buses are #1 always late #2 are often full and just skip stops altogether (especially that close to the uofm, it's actually difficult to find a bus that isn't full) #3 the schedule is sporadic af and sort of corresponds to high times but the buses often run at weird times even if they aren't late.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Because the buses are #1 always late #2 are often full and just skip stops altogether (especially that close to the uofm, it's actually difficult to find a bus that isn't full) #3 the schedule is sporadic af and sort of corresponds to high times but the buses often run at weird times even if they aren't late.

By your logic nobody in Fort Richmond would be taking the bus to school, but I really don't think that's the case...

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

By your logic nobody in Fort Richmond would be taking the bus to school, but I really don't think that's the case...

No I'm telling you why people at that particular point would probably have to walk a lot. Over at University drive there's a lot more buses passing through so you're more likely to get a spot. A few years ago when the Upass was introduced they jacked up the parking rates and you cannot opt out of the Upass if you live in the city so naturally this caused huge amounts of people to take the bus. Transit never kept up with the increased demand, meaning that the closer you are to the university, the less likely you are to get a bus. I'm not saying that all routes are equally bad, just that a lot are actually terrible, especially the most heavily used ones like the 75, the 60, the 160, the 78, the 74, and often the 162, although due to its routing it isn't as popular to get the the Uni.

I can't tell you how many times I've driven by on Chancellor Matheson and seeing the exact stop that would service this building, completely full of waiting people, and buses simply being too full to stop, or not being able to take people on.

Now, would this discourage me from living there if I were still a student? Probably not, but just because students have a UPass doesn't mean that getting to school is any better really.

Also the upass is very much paid for by the students, its not exactly free

[robertocarlos]

My walkscore at Donald and Broadway is 98. It only takes me 1 minute to drive downtown.

I think we should have more short route buses as the closer you live to a major destination the more likely the bus is full. I am 25 minutes away from the OV Safeway and it is the same time to walk home as it is to take the bus but the bus has a small possibility of being full so you can't get on it and waiting 5 minutes for the next one means I'm better off walking home.

Downtown is still not great for groceries. TNS might change that though.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

My walkscore at Donald and Broadway is 98. It only takes me 1 minute to drive downtown.

I think we should have more short route buses as the closer you live to a major destination the more likely the bus is full. I am 25 minutes away from the OV Safeway and it is the same time to walk home as it is to take the bus but the bus has a small possibility of being full so you can't get on it and waiting 5 minutes for the next one means I'm better off walking home.

Downtown is still not great for groceries. TNS might change that though.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but how does it take 25 minutes to ride the bus from Safeway to Donald and Broadway? I'm farther away at Portage & Garry and the bus to Safeway takes less than 10 minutes.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Also the upass is very much paid for by the students, its not exactly free

Oh come on, you know what I mean: if you're a student you have no choice but to have a u-pass, so it's effectively "free" to hop on a bus anytime you like (i.e. there's no incremental cost). Anyway, I'm sure that plenty of students in this development will indeed be taking the bus rather than walking. Very convenient for cycling too. That walk is soul-crushing; I did it once and vowed never to try it again.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Oh come on, you know what I mean: if you're a student you have no choice but to have a u-pass, so it's effectively "free" to hop on a bus anytime you like (i.e. there's no incremental cost). Anyway, I'm sure that plenty of students in this development will indeed be taking the bus rather than walking. Very convenient for cycling too. That walk is soul-crushing; I did it once and vowed never to try it again.

Like I understand what you mean, but if it's -20 and windy, I'd rather walk 20 minutes and get indoors than wait 20 minutes for a bus that I might not even be able to get on.

This will be a good location if you're a UofM student, don't get me wrong, but the transit there is going to suck at peak hours.

Also, I'm shocked that the university is letting this developer eat their lunch, like if they had an ounce of foresight they could easily fill the demand on site and ensure that the money flows into their coffers. In fact, they could even partner up with developers, thus helping end the problem with illegal rentals. Get the city onboard too for what it's worth. The fact that a project like this is being built is a sign that there is huge demand for student housing in the area.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Also, I'm shocked that the university is letting this developer eat their lunch, like if they had an ounce of foresight they could easily fill the demand on site and ensure that the money flows into their coffers. In fact, they could even partner up with developers, thus helping end the problem with illegal rentals. Get the city onboard too for what it's worth. The fact that a project like this is being built is a sign that there is huge demand for student housing in the area.

To their credit, the university does plan to have that kind of development on the golf course lands -- not that they seem to be in any hurry to actually get moving on that.