TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is shelved for the time being. The properties are being bought up by the MTO. I now this as one of my family owns one of the properties yet to be bought up. Basically, if they put it up for sale, they can only sell it to the MTO.

May MTO buy the property at a fair price then. (Read: May your family not be scammed/taken advantage of by the government.)

Also @Loco101: Thank you for your comments; @swimmer_spe: Yea the AADT on the "bypass" can be as high as 22300. :o

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

May MTO buy the property at a fair price then. (Read: May your family not be scammed/taken advantage of by the government.)

Also at Loco101: Thank you for your comments.

Thank you. I think that is why they are holding out.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is shelved for the time being. The properties are being bought up by the MTO. I now this as one of my family owns one of the properties yet to be bought up. Basically, if they put it up for sale, they can only sell it to the MTO.

That's what I thought. I lived on O'Brien Street for a year so I know the area well.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Loco101

As swimmer spe wrote, the MTO has been looking at Hwy 11 intersecting with 17 right at the Westernmost part of the city limits. Right by where the new hospital is I believe. Some issues is that it is right beside the Duchesnay Falls conservation area and right near Nipissing First Nation. It would mean a longer section of where Hwys 17 and 11 are together. The MTO also has had plans to make the North Bay "bypass" a freeway all of the way through but I'm not sure if that has been shelved indefinitely.

The Escarpment would be quite the barrier to any new highway. That and Trout Lake. It's an ugly spot for a bypass and would be quite expensive.

I think the MTO has shelved it, AFAIK.

[Dengler Avenue]

Wait a second, people. How's the hospital gonna sit well with a freeway right by it? o_o

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Wait a second, people. How's the hospital gonna sit well with a freeway right by it? o_o

I don't think the hospital will be an issue.

I forgot to mention that there is a system of hiking trails between the falls and Nipissing University/Canadore College.

[Dengler Avenue]

Yea I've heard that building any bypass between West Nipissing and North Bay will be difficult. It'll be ironic if my suggestion (aka relocating every shop on the east side of Algonquin from Maplewood to Airport) ends up being the cheaper option.

[Loco101]

It's certainly a possibility that Algonquin Avenue could be altered and businesses and some houses demolished.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

It's certainly a possibility that Algonquin Avenue could be altered and businesses and some houses demolished.

What about Thebault Hill?

Not much space to widen it.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What about Thebault Hill?

Not much space to widen it.

The segment north of Airport Road is already divided. Also, even with the narrow shoulder due to the emergency truck lane, MTO can still get away with a speed limit of 100 kph once the freeway becomes a thing.
By the way, that segment is really what makes the option to relocate every shop on the east side of Algonquin Avenue, attractive.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The segment north of Airport Road is already divided. Also, even with the narrow shoulder due to the emergency truck lane, MTO can still get away with a speed limit of 100 kph once the freeway becomes a thing.
By the way, that segment is really what makes the option to relocate every shop on the east side of Algonquin Avenue, attractive.

The issue with bringing the speed up to 100 on that hill is going down, you have a short distance to make a turn onto 11/17. That is what makes it unattractive.

[Loco101]

The MTO has a large property at the bottom of Thibeault Hill that is used for maintenance by whatever company has the contract for highway maintenance.

[Dengler Avenue]

No wonder that stretch of 11 is divided with a concrete median. In that case, what about reducing the slope of that hill before Airport Road? This is what I mean: Halfway before the current alignment of 11 reaches the bottom of that hill, we smooth it, then construct an overpass from there, which will hover over Algonquin Avenue until south of 17. For visualization, refer to Gardiner Expressway over Lakeshore Boulevard in Downtown Toronto.
This way, we only need to relocate 1-2 properties instead of everything on the east side. Aesthetics will be one of the problems though.

Edit: Never mind that's a dumb idea.

At this rate, crossing Trout Lake and then squeezing in between the golf course and the airport may be the only viable option. :/ And that's only for the 11. For 17, we will need to come down east of Nipissing University (with an interchange to access it) and go down Gormanville Road to merge back to 17W. Hence, everything along that road will have to be relocated onto College Drive.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

No wonder that stretch of 11 is divided with a concrete median. In that case, what about reducing the slope of that hill before Airport Road? This is what I mean: Halfway before the current alignment of 11 reaches the bottom of that hill, we smooth it, then construct an overpass from there, which will hover over Algonquin Avenue until south of 17. For visualization, refer to Gardiner Expressway over Lakeshore Boulevard in Downtown Toronto.
This way, we only need to relocate 1-2 properties instead of everything on the east side. Aesthetics will be one of the problems though.

Edit: Never mind that's a dumb idea.

At this rate, crossing Trout Lake and then squeezing in between the golf course and the airport may be the only viable option. :/ And that's only for the 11. For 17, we will need to come down east of Nipissing University (with an interchange to access it) and go down Gormanville Road to merge back to 17W. Hence, everything along that road will have to be relocated onto College Drive.

If you look at Google Maps satellite view, you will see that most of the land is clear from where 11S and 17E interchange to almost O'brian. That takes care of that area. It i from O'brian to the top of the hill that is the issue.

I still think they will swing 11N along the edge of the FN reserve and the Duchesney Falls/creek area. The West side of the falls have only a trail that follows the river. Also, that land is not a rugged as trying to tame Thebault Hill.

To tame Thebault Hill:
1) All businesses along Algonquin North of 17 would need to be removed.
2) A berm or overpass could be built that would reduce the grade and make the transfer to 11/17 reasonable. It would also allow the installation of an interchange with McKeown/Airport Road.

.....

There are many challenges to twining.

For another example, look at Blind River/Algoma Mills area.
You would need to put it north of Lake Lauzon.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If you look at Google Maps satellite view, you will see that most of the land is clear from where 11S and 17E interchange to almost O'brian. That takes care of that area. It i from O'brian to the top of the hill that is the issue.

I still think they will swing 11N along the edge of the FN reserve and the Duchesney Falls/creek area. The West side of the falls have only a trail that follows the river. Also, that land is not a rugged as trying to tame Thebault Hill.

To tame Thebault Hill:
1) All businesses along Algonquin North of 17 would need to be removed.
2) A berm or overpass could be built that would reduce the grade and make the transfer to 11/17 reasonable. It would also allow the installation of an interchange with McKeown/Airport Road.

.....

There are many challenges to twining.

For another example, look at Blind River/Algoma Mills area.
You would need to put it north of Lake Lauzon.

Option 2's what I was trying to get at.

As for twinning 17 till SSM, alternatively, we will have to wreck those 2 towns if Missisaugi 8 FN says no to letting the freeway pass through. Man I've already lost count of how many times I have looked at the google satellite view of that area.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Option 2's what I was trying to get at.

As for twinning 17 till SSM, alternatively, we will have to wreck those 2 towns if Missisaugi 8 FN says no to letting the freeway pass through. Man I've already lost count of how many times I have looked at the google satellite view of that area.

Basically anything North of the French River and West of Deep River will be a nightmare.

The FN will play hardball, and we will be screwed.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Basically anything North of the French River and West of Deep River will be a nightmare.

The FN will play hardball, and we will be screwed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Long Lake 58 is the only FN along the 11 east of Lake Nipigon?? If worst comes to worst, we can still bypass the FN without much difficulty (although that will really be a lose-lose situation). On the other hand, there are many FN's along 17.

As for 17 between Manitoba border and T Bay, besides Shoal Lake 39&40, are there any other?

[vid]

There are a lot of First Nations along those highways, and their traditional lands at a complex patchwork that covers the entire region.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by vid

There are a lot of First Nations along those highways, and their traditional lands at a complex patchwork that covers the entire region.

Can I say (or rather, is it true) that, if it were not for the drug crises among FNs, they would have gladly let 11 be twinned which would have meant cheaper food (and many other things)? Now instead they fear that a better highway means more drugs (as with RofF right now).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

There are a lot of First Nations along those highways, and their traditional lands at a complex patchwork that covers the entire region.

This is also why 69 is not being twinned nearly as fast aas it could be due to the FN reserves along it's routes.