Highways in Canada

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Did they or are they going to build HOV only ramps?

Never mind we don’t have those in Ontario.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Never mind we don’t have those in Ontario.

If that's the case then I doubt anywhere in Canada has them.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

If that's the case then I doubt anywhere in Canada has them.

Don’t forget Surrey and Langley, BC. We have it at 156th Street (Guildford) and partially at 202nd Street (Carvolth).

Edit: There’s one at Government Road (Lougheed) too. You get the idea: They were to some extent built for the Port Mann Express.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Don’t forget Surrey and Langley, BC. We have it at 156th Street (Guildford) and partially at 202nd Street (Carvolth).

Edit: There’s one at Government Road (Lougheed) too. You get the idea: They were to some extent built for the Port Mann Express.

Can you provide some exact map links?

[Loco101]

Not much widening will be needed for an express-collector system.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

He did say half million population areas. Does Owen Sound to Barrie justify a 400-series? Maybe sometimes, probably not often though. I imagine there's many city pairs it would be a "nice to have". But it seems to make sense to me that most of the 400's would point to Toronto. Look at where everybody is. Perhaps if London was where Owen Sound is, and Kitchener was where North Bay is, the highway system would be much more interesting. But people settled where they did for a reason over the last 150 years and here we are.

Hamilton - KWC + Guelph is the obvious example of two cities of half a million within 50km with no divided highway (or frequent public transportation) between them, but there are other omissions:

- London to Kitchener via 7/8. Driving between Kitchener - and especially Waterloo - and London via 401 is a big detour, and note that the 8 doesn't actually have a direct westbound off-ramp onto the 401;

- Guelph-Kitchener. This was under construction, but Doug Ford halted it.

- Something connecting the 401 to the 24 just south of Cambridge. Allows KWC and Guelph to access southern Cambridge and Brantford.

- Some kind of upgrade, of some kind, to Highway 26 between Barrie and the existing super-2 east of Collingwood.

Not to mention highways that should be upgraded or built around the GTA, like the Bradford connector and the GTA West corridor, both thankfully back in planning.

In most other countries in the developed world, cities of these sizes, with these distances between them would be connected by divided highways or frequent passenger rail or both.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Hamilton - KWC + Guelph is the obvious example of two cities of half a million within 50km with no divided highway (or frequent public transportation) between them, but there are other omissions:

- London to Kitchener via 7/8. Driving between Kitchener - and especially Waterloo - and London via 401 is a big detour, and note that the 8 doesn't actually have a direct westbound off-ramp onto the 401;

- Guelph-Kitchener. This was under construction, but Doug Ford halted it.

- Something connecting the 401 to the 24 just south of Cambridge. Allows KWC and Guelph to access southern Cambridge and Brantford.

- Some kind of upgrade, of some kind, to Highway 26 between Barrie and the existing super-2 east of Collingwood.

Not to mention highways that should be upgraded or built around the GTA, like the Bradford connector and the GTA West corridor, both thankfully back in planning.

In most other countries in the developed world, cities of these sizes, with these distances between them would be connected by divided highways or frequent passenger rail or both.

These cities weren’t nearly as large during the great postwar era of highway building. That might not be the case in the parallel examples in the other developed countries.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Don’t forget Surrey and Langley, BC. We have it at 156th Street (Guildford) and partially at 202nd Street (Carvolth).

Edit: There’s one at Government Road (Lougheed) too. You get the idea: They were to some extent built for the Port Mann Express.

What about the Grandview interchange on Hwy 1?

[Djeffery]

I've always wondered why there wasn't a ramp from 8 to 401W, and the only reason I can come up with after all this time is, is it really needed? I can't imagine a huge amount of people coming down 8 needing to go to Homer Watson for example, wouldn't the most of them just go 7/8 to HW? I'm sure that King St isn't a picnic now in that Sportsworld area, but enough to justify what would be a very costly onramp from 8? Not so sure about that. If there was to be a choice, can only have 1, I would think a 401E-8N would be more desirable.

As for 7/8 between London and KW. I just don't see the point. It might be out of the way at the KW end to deal with the 401, but the same would be true at the London end if 7 was a 400-series highway. London is twice as far south of 7 as the 401 is south of Waterloo, and that's only coming down as far as the northern fringe of London. A "408" that ran from Kitchener to the 402 at Strathroy, and ran east to whatever they are planning for GTA West would be awesome. But I'd rather see that kind of money put into high speed rail.

[Dengler Avenue]

I asked the same question about 8S to 401W and vice versa in the Ontario Highway thread too. AFAIK, designs were drawn up, but IMO there’s no point to put them in unless and until we are widening 401 all the way to Conestoga College.

To me, frequent and reliable two way all day train service to London from GTA via Hamilton and via KW will be wonderful, but I digress.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Sounds more like you are talking about a London bypass, which I don't think is really needed, since 95% of the city lies north of the 401/402 corridor. The ring road, as being discussed, was simply for moving London traffic around the outer edges of London to the other side, rather than going through the city. It's not really about moving out of town traffic around the city to the other side and on their way, since the 401/402 already does that. There would be some benefit to the immediate bedroom communities to the north of the city having a quicker highway access to get down to the 401, but it wouldn't really have been more of a regional route, and certainly not an alternative to places like Stratford or K-W beyond.

Not sure where you were coming from on your way back to Stratford that the GPS sent you around the north end of London. I would think that most people from Michigan going to the Stratford Festival would take the Stratford exit off the 401, exit 222, about 30km east of London. There are signs out on the rural roads pointing to Stratford, but it's not like Stratford is a major metropolis either, so every little country road isn't going to have a sign at every intersection. There is a Stratford sign where you turn left onto Highway 7 at Parkhill, for example, and that's about 40 miles away. There's another sign at the main intersection of Ailsa Craig that says "Stratford 58km -->". But those 2 examples are on 7, which is also the road Stratford is on. So I imagine the GPS was moving you from wherever you were to 7 at some point.

Back when the province was planning to build the 402 along the north side of London and then south to the 401 in the east end, there was also a plan for a new Highway 7 running northeastward from the planned 402 near Clarke Road up to St. Marys. I believe the proposed alignment was fairly close to the CN rail line. The idea was to make access to Stratford easier from both London and points west.

More recently there has been talk of the London Chamber of Commerce supporting a new Highway 7 link between Stratford/St. Marys and the 402 near Strathroy. I don't think that even needs to be a freeway. I don't think it's been posted online officially anywhere but I was at an event 10 years ago in London where it was mentioned, and back then there was a mention of it in the London Free Press.

This could somehow be integrated with the planned northerly extension of Veterans Memorial Parkway.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Back when the province was planning to build the 402 along the north side of London and then south to the 401 in the east end, there was also a plan for a new Highway 7 running northeastward from the planned 402 near Clarke Road up to St. Marys. I believe the proposed alignment was fairly close to the CN rail line. The idea was to make access to Stratford easier from both London and points west.

More recently there has been talk of the London Chamber of Commerce supporting a new Highway 7 link between Stratford/St. Marys and the 402 near Strathroy. I don't think that even needs to be a freeway. I don't think it's been posted online officially anywhere but I was at an event 10 years ago in London where it was mentioned, and back then there was a mention of it in the London Free Press.

This could somehow be integrated with the planned northerly extension of Veterans Memorial Parkway.

If that went on to connect to Highway 8 in K/W, that would make a good alternative to the 401.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If that went on to connect to Highway 8 in K/W, that would make a good alternative to the 401.

That was my point.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Back when the province was planning to build the 402 along the north side of London and then south to the 401 in the east end, there was also a plan for a new Highway 7 running northeastward from the planned 402 near Clarke Road up to St. Marys. I believe the proposed alignment was fairly close to the CN rail line. The idea was to make access to Stratford easier from both London and points west.

More recently there has been talk of the London Chamber of Commerce supporting a new Highway 7 link between Stratford/St. Marys and the 402 near Strathroy. I don't think that even needs to be a freeway. I don't think it's been posted online officially anywhere but I was at an event 10 years ago in London where it was mentioned, and back then there was a mention of it in the London Free Press.

This could somehow be integrated with the planned northerly extension of Veterans Memorial Parkway.

It would be nice to have a second freeway facility in southwestern Ontario.

I would love to see Hwy 7 improved with a proper connection to both the 402 and 401 west of London.

The 401 is pretty consistently packed between London and Woodstock these days. It doesn't seem that far off that we should be considering widening that to eight lanes. (I'd rather see the 401 widened to the east of London than to the west of it to be honest). But, maybe we should just build a new facility rather than just a never ending widening of the 401.

At some point, I think we might just need to recognize that the province actually needs more than just one road.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

At some point, I think we might just need to recognize that the province actually needs more than just one road.

That’s why I suggested extending 402 to Ottawa (aka replacing the entire Highway 7) via Stratford, Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown, Peterborough, Madoc, Perth, Smith Falls & Carleton Place (and renumbering the stretch toward 401 as 481) back then. Having 2 parallel freeways around 40 km apart may sound redundant but not when the main one right now is also a major truck route.

Also, seeing the last km market of 402 jump from 82 to 656 sounds fun. (Okay, enough ideology from me.)

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If that went on to connect to Highway 8 in K/W, that would make a good alternative to the 401.

Only if it was a 400 series highway.

It's essentially 16 km, from Hickory and old highway 22 across the fields to highway 7 near Denfield Rd east of Ailsa Craig. That makes the most sense of an alignment to join 7 to the 402. Again though, if it's just a 2 lane rural highway like 7 currently is, not sure it really helps a large number of people to be worthwhile.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

It would be nice to have a second freeway facility in southwestern Ontario.

I would love to see Hwy 7 improved with a proper connection to both the 402 and 401 west of London.

The 401 is pretty consistently packed between London and Woodstock these days. It doesn't seem that far off that we should be considering widening that to eight lanes. (I'd rather see the 401 widened to the east of London than to the west of it to be honest). But, maybe we should just build a new facility rather than just a never ending widening of the 401.

At some point, I think we might just need to recognize that the province actually needs more than just one road.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That’s why I suggested extending 402 to Ottawa (aka replacing the entire Highway 7) via Stratford, Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown, Peterborough, Madoc, Perth, Smith Falls & Carleton Place (and renumbering the stretch toward 401 as 481) back then. Having 2 parallel freeways around 40 km apart may sound redundant but not when the main one right now is also a major truck route.

Also, seeing the last km market of 402 jump from 82 to 656 sounds fun. (Okay, enough ideology from me.)

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Only if it was a 400 series highway.

It's essentially 16 km, from Hickory and old highway 22 across the fields to highway 7 near Denfield Rd east of Ailsa Craig. That makes the most sense of an alignment to join 7 to the 402. Again though, if it's just a 2 lane rural highway like 7 currently is, not sure it really helps a large number of people to be worthwhile.

What I think is a new highway intersecting the 402 somewhere around Mount Brydges running north of the city, then connecting to highway 7 near St Mary's,twinning it to a bypass of Stratford, to connect to a twinned Highway 8.

Beyond that, follow the future planed highway 7 bypass in K/W Then to Guelph and on towards the 407.

In short, this would build a second spine in SW Ontario to relieve some traffic and also make it easier to get around.

[Dengler Avenue]

In summary, Ontarian towns that used to be small during the golden highway building age have mostly grown up by now, and the 2 lane rural connectors between them may no longer be enough. The golden highway building age though, is that gone for good?

Ps: I love how all of us left Orangeville out. Highway 9’s bad from there to Newmarket.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What I think is a new highway intersecting the 402 somewhere around Mount Brydges running north of the city, then connecting to highway 7 near St Mary's,twinning it to a bypass of Stratford, to connect to a twinned Highway 8.

Beyond that, follow the future planed highway 7 bypass in K/W Then to Guelph and on towards the 407.

In short, this would build a second spine in SW Ontario to relieve some traffic and also make it easier to get around.

I think coming east of Strathroy just means you end up going south to go north. If you split off at Strathroy, you already are on the north side of London. The 402 swings to the southeast to go to the bottom side of London at that point, so if you are going to split off a new highway to the north of London, you might as well start it from the northwest side. 7 is relatively close to the 402 through much of it's length from Sarnia to Strathroy, and then the 402 drastically diverges south.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think coming east of Strathroy just means you end up going south to go north. If you split off at Strathroy, you already are on the north side of London. The 402 swings to the southeast to go to the bottom side of London at that point, so if you are going to split off a new highway to the north of London, you might as well start it from the northwest side. 7 is relatively close to the 402 through much of it's length from Sarnia to Strathroy, and then the 402 drastically diverges south.

You are thinking of Highway 22. It might be good too.