Canadian Retail Thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Or people who choose not to get passports. My parents, for example.

I think fewer and fewer people are routinely crossing the border all the time, especially when compared to pre-911. There are a variety of reasons for this, but the thickening of the border certainly accounts for a lot.

If it is not easy, convenient and enjoyable, , then people will tend not to do it.

I live 2.5 hours from the border, and four hours from the nearest medium sized American city (Bangor ME). Back in the 90s, we would go down there for a fun weekend and for a shopping trip. You could easily get there on a Friday evening, and have Saturday and most of Sunday to shop and explore. Things have changed. Shopping in Bangor has collapsed (post 911) due to the disappearance of Canadian retail tourism. Shopping in Moncton in fact is now infinitely better than in Bangor. The border is thickened. Gas is more expensive (hotels too). There is very little you can do down there that you can't do here now. The question become "why bother???"

[esquire]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think fewer and fewer people are routinely crossing the border all the time, especially when compared to pre-911. There are a variety of reasons for this, but the thickening of the border certainly accounts for a lot.

If it is not easy, convenient and enjoyable, , then people will tend not to do it.

I live 2.5 hours from the border, and four hours from the nearest medium sized American city (Bangor ME). Back in the 90s, we would go down there for a fun weekend and for a shopping trip. You could easily get there on a Friday evening, and have Saturday and most of Sunday to shop and explore. Things have changed. Shopping in Bangor has collapsed (post 911) due to the disappearance of Canadian retail tourism. Shopping in Moncton in fact is now infinitely better than in Bangor. The border is thickened. Gas is more expensive (hotels too). There is very little you can do down there that you can't do here now. The question become "why bother???"

Similar situation in Winnipeg. Grand Forks and Fargo ND (2.5 and 3.5 hours away respectively) used to be pretty popular draws for Winnipeggers. I'm sure many do still go down there but likely not in the numbers they once did. Mainly for all the factors you mentioned including:

-more difficult border process
-higher prices in the US, the deals are no longer there
-much better local selection than before

Minneapolis offers far more but it's a 7.5 hour drive and impossible to do on a regular 2-day weekend.

I think that the proliferation of relatively inexpensive flights has also encouraged people to travel farther afield.

When I responded to SteelTown's post though, I was thinking that the situation is a bit different in the Hamilton-Niagara area. I have extended family in and around St. Catharines-Niagara and some family members live on the NY side so they are all used to routinely hopping the border, e.g. my cousin will drive the half an hour from St. Catharines over the border to hit up Tops and fill up the tank or whatever. I think the situation is similar around the southern parts of the Vancouver area, a lot of people routinely make the hop to Bellingham.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think fewer and fewer people are routinely crossing the border all the time, especially when compared to pre-911. There are a variety of reasons for this, but the thickening of the border certainly accounts for a lot.

If it is not easy, convenient and enjoyable, , then people will tend not to do it.

I live 2.5 hours from the border, and four hours from the nearest medium sized American city (Bangor ME). Back in the 90s, we would go down there for a fun weekend and for a shopping trip. You could easily get there on a Friday evening, and have Saturday and most of Sunday to shop and explore. Things have changed. Shopping in Bangor has collapsed (post 911) due to the disappearance of Canadian retail tourism. Shopping in Moncton in fact is now infinitely better than in Bangor. The border is thickened. Gas is more expensive (hotels too). There is very little you can do down there that you can't do here now. The question become "why bother???"

we cross about every other weekend, crosssing is so easy, lineups are never worse than 20 minutes sometimes there are no lineups, the border guy asks us why we are going and ushers us in, coming back into Canada is also easy, usually no more than 5 minutes, granted we time it to come back after 10 pm, but easy, and gas out here on the US side works out to be 1.30 per litre compared to the 1.90 - 2.00 we pay in Vancouver area. So well worth filling up. We're lucky here compared to other places in Canada as far as we are very close and have a lot within 20 minutes of crossing.

Bellingham is a small town, 80,000 I think, but it has all the big US stores like Hobby Lobby, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, Sierra, Homegoods, Target, Trader Joes, AtHome, REI, Whole Foods, Macys, Kohls, Big Lots etc. There is a grocery store called Winco that is very cheap considering, meat can be very cheap and cheese and 60 eggs go for $7 (USD) Seattle is about 60-90 minutes more, and makes for an easy day trip, we don't go that far that often but a couple times a year maybe.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

we cross about every other weekend, crosssing is so easy, lineups are never worse than 20 minutes sometimes there are no lineups, the border guy asks us why we are going and ushers us in, coming back into Canada is also easy, usually no more than 5 minutes, granted we time it to come back after 10 pm, but easy, and gas out here on the US side works out to be 1.30 per litre compared to the 1.90 - 2.00 we pay in Vancouver area. So well worth filling up.

Bellingham is a small town, 80,000 I think, but it has all the big US stores like Hobby Lobby, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, Sierra, Homegoods, Target, Trader Joes, AtHome, REI, Whole Foods, Macys, Kohls, Big Lots etc. There is a grocery store called Winco that is very cheap considering, meat can be very cheap and cheese and 60 eggs go for $7.

Yup, crossing the border after work hours on a weekday is super easy from the lower mainland. Especially if you can make use of the Lynden border. I work 1 week a month out east near Langley, so I'll usually cross the border once a month after work just to pick up some cheap gas and groceries from Lynden. The Grocery Outlet has a lot of niche items you can't find in Canada. The border wait time is always less than 5 minutes each way (usually no wait), and Lynden is only about 10 minutes from the border. Worth the 30 minute detour. Bellingham is only a little bit further, but I usually don't go that far unless I'm on my way to Seattle.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by theman23

Yup, crossing the border after work hours on a weekday is super easy from the lower mainland. Especially if you can make use of the Lynden border. I work 1 week a month out east near Langley, so I'll usually cross the border once a month after work just to pick up some cheap gas and groceries from Lynden. The Grocery Outlet has a lot of niche items you can't find in Canada. The border wait time is always less than 5 minutes each way (usually no wait), and Lynden is only about 10 minutes from the border. Worth the 30 minute detour. Bellingham is only a little bit further, but I usually don't go that far unless I'm on my way to Seattle.

Also, Lynden has Edaleen's Dairy; literally a couple minutes south of the Aldergrove/Lynden border crossing on the Guide. Great dairy products; especially treating one's self to their ice cream. Their soft chocolate/vanilla swirl is so good. If you are a coffee drinker, there's Woods Coffee.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Bellingham is a small town, 80,000 I think, but it has all the big US stores like Hobby Lobby, TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, Sierra, Homegoods, Target, Trader Joes, AtHome, REI, Whole Foods, Macys, Kohls, Big Lots etc. There is a grocery store called Winco that is very cheap considering, meat can be very cheap and cheese and 60 eggs go for $7 (USD) Seattle is about 60-90 minutes more, and makes for an easy day trip, we don't go that far that often but a couple times a year maybe.

Bellingham is just a bit under 95,000, but the Metro is almost 230,000 which is why you'd probably see more chain retail than otherwise.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

we cross about every other weekend....

Life near the border is certainly different. When I stayed in a border town (Fort Frances, Ontario) for 2 months, we went to the US 2-3 times/week. I lived in Halifax for 20 years and went 4 times (twice to Maine, twice to NYC). In the 25 years I've lived in Toronto/Montreal, I've been to the US 2 times (Sarasota, NYC).

So apart from that stint in a border town, I've visited the US 6 times. I thought that was a lot as I've been to the US more than any other country. Finland comes 2nd with 4 visits, France 3rd with 2 visits.

[MolsonExport]

Shopping in the States: when you factor in the prices/time/hassle, it just ain't worth it. Unless you are already down there for some other reason, or have a NEXUS card.

The yawning price gap has largely closed. There is more variety down South, but it is usually more of the same rather than things "you can't get" up here (like 20,000 SKUs of processed cheese).

I feel good about spending (most) of my retail dollars in Canada (even if lots of this goes to American-based retailers like Costco).

[1overcosc]

The US has way better prices and selection on dairy products.. but even on this, Canada has improved at least a bit compared to say 10 years ago. You can actually buy 84% butter in most Canadian supermarkets now (and its not even that badly overpriced compared to the standard stuff), whereas that used to be basically impossible to buy anywhere. Although raw milk cheeses and decent cultured butter are still very hard to get.

[Innsertnamehere]

NY doesn’t have sales tax on clothes which helps a bit over the poor exchange rate. Generally speaking the US is more expensive for most things if anything though, excepting dairy and booze from my experience.

I live an hour from the border and typically cross 2-4 times a year. Usually not for small day trips, but going to sports games in Buffalo, visiting friends, vacation, cutting through on the way to New Brunswick to visit family, weekend getaways, etc add up.

Growing up probably 75% of my families wardrobe (and many more things!) would be purchased in New Hampshire on the way through to dodge sales taxes, especially when the dollar was strong. The value isn’t quite the same now, but not having 13% sales taxes helps.

People overplay how difficult the border is - but a lot of people get intimidated by American border guards especially. They rarely if ever cause any real issue to you, especially if you fit.. certain… profiles, but they can still be quite mean and intimidating for little to no reason.

I’ve done the math before and figure I’ve spent about 3% of my life in the US - I average at least 1 week a year in the US, usually more.

I was in the US this very weekend and it was a smooth crossing at the peace bridge both ways, with no more than a 5 minute wait. It’s always refreshing how light traffic is as soon as you cross compare to southern Ontario, though NY is much stricter on speed enforcement of their (slow!) speed limits which mutes a bit of that.. Michigan is much better that way with 75mph limits on I69.

Gas was $3.89/gallon, which is like $1.39/l CAD.. so still a good bit cheaper than the $1.65/L or so in Ontario right now.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The US has way better prices and selection on dairy products.. but even on this, Canada has improved at least a bit compared to say 10 years ago. You can actually buy 84% butter in most Canadian supermarkets now (and its not even that badly overpriced compared to the standard stuff), whereas that used to be basically impossible to buy anywhere. Although raw milk cheeses and decent cultured butter are still very hard to get.

What is 84% butter compared to the typical grocery store stuff?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The US has way better prices and selection on dairy products.. but even on this, Canada has improved at least a bit compared to say 10 years ago. You can actually buy 84% butter in most Canadian supermarkets now (and its not even that badly overpriced compared to the standard stuff), whereas that used to be basically impossible to buy anywhere. Although raw milk cheeses and decent cultured butter are still very hard to get.

Cheese is overall cheaper in Canada from my observations, according to my relatives who live on the border and from what I've been reading.

I don't really know if selection is actually better in the U.S.. but it depends on how you look at it and where you are specifically. Quebec has a better selection of cheeses and other dairy products compared to anywhere I've been in the states. But other parts of Canada often do lack selection.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Shopping in the States: when you factor in the prices/time/hassle, it just ain't worth it. Unless you are already down there for some other reason, or have a NEXUS card.

The yawning price gap has largely closed. There is more variety down South, but it is usually more of the same rather than things "you can't get" up here (like 20,000 SKUs of processed cheese).

I feel good about spending (most) of my retail dollars in Canada (even if lots of this goes to American-based retailers like Costco).

Well said.

[SpongeG]

if you have Alberta ID you don't pay sales tax in Washington state.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Wigs

What is 84% butter compared to the typical grocery store stuff?

Typical is 81% butter fat, iirc. The higher fat content is better for baking.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Life near the border is certainly different. When I stayed in a border town (Fort Frances, Ontario) for 2 months, we went to the US 2-3 times/week. I lived in Halifax for 20 years and went 4 times (twice to Maine, twice to NYC). In the 25 years I've lived in Toronto/Montreal, I've been to the US 2 times (Sarasota, NYC).

So apart from that stint in a border town, I've visited the US 6 times. I thought that was a lot as I've been to the US more than any other country. Finland comes 2nd with 4 visits, France 3rd with 2 visits.

I've never thought of total visits before, I'm not even sure I could come up with an accurate number. But my father in law lives there, and my mother in law used to as well, so there's a trip or two every year just due to that.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

NY doesn’t have sales tax on clothes which helps a bit over the poor exchange rate. Generally speaking the US is more expensive for most things if anything though, excepting dairy and booze from my experience.

Even booze is a mixed bag. Yes, you can get a flat of macro beer or handle of cheap liquor for MUCH less than in Canada. On the flipside, a lot of craft beer, top-shelf stuff and good wines are on par and occasionally even more expensive. Though this varies by area a lot, and the LCBO is surprisingly competitive for high-end products. Due to the distribution system in the US craft beer in particular can get very pricey and non-shelf stable beer can sit on unrefrigerated shelves for way too long (something the LCBO has gotten a lot better at). It's rarely worth buying anything that isn't local if you want fresh beer at this point. When it costs $5-7USD for a 500ml can I've gotten a lot more discerning on this front.

Basically the stuff that's actually a lot cheaper is what's most heavily regulated in terms of the amount you can bring back. I'd only really consider it if I was near the border and wanted a bunch of cheap beer / liquor for a party or something.

Was also shocked when I was in Chicago last that gas was actually slightly more expensive than Canada. But then again almost everything seems expensive there, and stuff like cigarettes are also more than here. Whereas Detroit was quite a bit cheaper - ditto Buffalo. We made sure to fill up on the US side in those places.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Cheese is overall cheaper in Canada from my observations, according to my relatives who live on the border and from what I've been reading.

I don't really know if selection is actually better in the U.S.. but it depends on how you look at it and where you are specifically. Quebec has a better selection of cheeses and other dairy products compared to anywhere I've been in the states. But other parts of Canada often do lack selection.

Quebec has amazing cheese selections across the board. Lots of places in Toronto do as well, but when I'm at our place in Napanee it's pretty disappointing despite proximity to an area with lots of cheese producers. Though some specialty retailers are getting better on this front.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by niwell

Even booze is a mixed bag. Yes, you can get a flat of macro beer or handle of cheap liquor for MUCH less than in Canada. On the flipside, a lot of craft beer, top-shelf stuff and good wines are on par and occasionally even more expensive. Though this varies by area a lot, and the LCBO is surprisingly competitive for high-end products. Due to the distribution system in the US craft beer in particular can get very pricey and non-shelf stable beer can sit on unrefrigerated shelves for way too long (something the LCBO has gotten a lot better at). It's rarely worth buying anything that isn't local if you want fresh beer at this point. When it costs $5-7USD for a 500ml can I've gotten a lot more discerning on this front.

Basically the stuff that's actually a lot cheaper is what's most heavily regulated in terms of the amount you can bring back. I'd only really consider it if I was near the border and wanted a bunch of cheap beer / liquor for a party or something.

Was also shocked when I was in Chicago last that gas was actually slightly more expensive than Canada. But then again almost everything seems expensive there, and stuff like cigarettes are also more than here. Whereas Detroit was quite a bit cheaper - ditto Buffalo. We made sure to fill up on the US side in those places.

The best deals are on the cheaper stuff, for sure. Ontario's alcohol taxes are on volume, not as a percentage of price, so the more expensive the liqour, the smaller the difference will be.

I stopped at Duty Free on the way home on Sunday and picked up 48 Mooseheads for $46 CAD - after deposit return it'll work out to $0.87/beer. That's at Duty-Free though.. but a nice bonus. It's not hard to find domestic beers for close to $1/beer in a lot of the US.

Unlike Ontario where liqour is priced at the dollar amount the LCBO sets in every store, prices are store dependent like a more regular good, so you have to go to the right store. Buying wine from a grocery store isn't going to save much over Ontario - but Costco can have decent wines on for a fraction of the cost in Ontario pretty easily. I've seen $20 bottles in Ontario go for $8 USD at Costco.

Gas in border states is also generally more expensive than further south. Last year we drove to Florida in our Civic and did the whole, 5,000km trip for around $250 in gas - we were filling up for $1.20/l when gas in Ontario was at $1.90.

I have family in NB who bought their cars in New Hampshire for years, especially back when the dollar was strong. They swore by it. You still pay taxes when importing, but buying in NH saves the double-tax situation and the dollar exchange, especially on certain models, can be significant.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by niwell

Basically the stuff that's actually a lot cheaper is what's most heavily regulated in terms of the amount you can bring back. I'd only really consider it if I was near the border and wanted a bunch of cheap beer / liquor for a party or something.

Interestingly, the last time I checked, there were fairly stingy limits on the quantity of dairy products you could bring back from the US. But I doubt this is strongly enforced because of the relatively short shelf life of these products... the border guards have never asked me about dairy specifically. After all, not too many people will be bringing 40 kg of cheese from the US for personal use.

I suppose CBSA might only become interested if you looked like you were planning to import large quantities for the purpose of reselling it.