The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

While the PoW bridge is low hanging fruit, it doesn't really provide a lot of value from a network perspective. I prefer something going over Chaudiere Island and through Lebreton Flats and then into downtown, probably on Albert/Slater, but unfortunately I don't think that a RT line could be accommodated over the Chaudiere Bridge. It might be possible to squeeze in LRT at the expense of two car lanes, but it would be a tight fit.

Ya It doesn't appear to be feasible for those reasons and more. Assuming it would be interlined with the downtown portion of the confederation line, the associated costs of construction and the frequency of the lines would be issues.

[eemy]

I'm hoping that the transit lanes will remain on Albert and Slater and that STO will move to using them instead of Wellington/Rideau.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

In my opinion, I think the benefits would be minimal because most users would have to transfer twice, whereas Blue line users in Montreal and Bloor line users in Toronto only have to transfer once. STO users would have to transfer to the Trillium line on Gatineau side and then to the Confederation line in Ottawa. Only Trillium line users would have to transfer once, which currently represents a small share of transit users.

Please look at a map.

The train tracks that the Rapidbus follows is the same tracks that go over the POW.

Please tell me how that would not be beneficial?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Ya It doesn't appear to be feasible for those reasons and more. Assuming it would be interlined with the downtown portion of the confederation line, the associated costs of construction and the frequency of the lines would be issues.

If the Trillium Line can't be interlined with the Confederation Line, then why would a Gatineau line do so? This would be politically unacceptable.

The big challenge at the moment is that all interprovincial transportation options have come to a total standstill for political reasons. It is a sad statement that we can't build interprovincial rapid transit nor can we even build an interprovincial bridge. It almost seems that only way around this is to create a federal district so that finally there can be unified transportation planning.

As was mentioned by another poster, the Bayview connection is too far west from downtown for Gatineau residents. It is for the exact same reason that few people use the Trillium Line to reach downtown.

The long-term plan that the Confederation Line will be the only rapid transit route through downtown Ottawa is fundamentally faulty.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Please look at a map.

The train tracks that the Rapidbus follows is the same tracks that go over the POW.

Please tell me how that would not be beneficial?

Yes, I understand what you're saying. However, it's not like all buses are going to go to Bayview and ignore downtown Hull. So wouldn't that require many users to transfer on the Gatineau side to a bus that takes them to Bayview? I must admit though, I'm not as familiar with how the STO operates compared to OC Transpo. Maybe it could work if every second bus destined for Hull would go to Bayview instead. If I'm not mistaken, don't most STO buses currently going to Ottawa pass through Hull? So users going to either Hull or Ottawa can take the same bus, right?

If the Trillium Line can't be interlined with the Confederation Line, then why would a Gatineau line do so? This would be politically unacceptable.

The big challenge at the moment is that all interprovincial transportation options have come to a total standstill for political reasons. It is a sad statement that we can't build interprovincial rapid transit nor can we even build an interprovincial bridge. It almost seems that only way around this is to create a federal district so that finally there can be unified transportation planning.

As was mentioned by another poster, the Bayview connection is too far west from downtown for Gatineau residents. It is for the exact same reason that few people use the Trillium Line to reach downtown.

The long-term plan that the Confederation Line will be the only rapid transit route through downtown Ottawa is fundamentally faulty.

I don't think it's that the trillium like can't be interlined with the Confederation line. It's certainly possible. Rather, it's that it would pose future problems for frequency because the Confederation line will likely be the busiest line out of the 3 shown on my map. So it wouldn't necessarily be ideal to interline the Gatineau line with the Trillium line extension either, but I think it would pose less problems in terms of frequency for that section because those lines will likely be less busy than the Confederation line. Don't forget the Confederation line will split after Lincoln Fields (to Bayshore and Baseline). So say we want to achieve at least a 5 minute frequencies during the day for Bayshore and Baseline, that means the rest of the Confederation line will have a frequencies of 2.5 minutes. If we then add Trillium line to the downtown section, it would cause congestion problems for the trains.

I also thought that maybe we should consider turning the NCR into a federal district. The provincial divide is the single biggest obstacle in allowing Ottawa and Gatineau to operate like a regular city. Such a change could benefit residents on both sides of the river. Though, it's hard to tell how people would react to such a change.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Yes, I understand what you're saying. However, it's not like all buses are going to go to Bayview and ignore downtown Hull. So wouldn't that require many users to transfer on the Gatineau side to a bus that takes them to Bayview? I must admit though, I'm not as familiar with how the STO operates compared to OC Transpo. Maybe it could work if every second bus destined for Hull would go to Bayview instead. If I'm not mistaken, don't most STO buses currently going to Ottawa pass through Hull? So users going to either Hull or Ottawa can take the same bus, right?

I am not talking about buses. I am talking about the Trillium Line continuing across the POW and then down the existing tracks that are beside Rapibus ROW.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I am not talking about buses. I am talking about the Trillium Line continuing across the POW and then down the existing tracks that are beside Rapibus ROW.

Oh, I think I understand what you're saying now. Although that could certainly be beneficial in some ways, I can't see the Gatineau municipality allowing that. It would take a lot of ridership away from the STO. If the STO and OC Transpo could somehow merge to form a single public transit service, then that could likely work, but I can't see that happening either, unfortunately.

[lrt's friend]

So say we want to achieve at least a 5 minute frequencies during the day for Bayshore and Baseline, that means the rest of the Confederation line will have a frequencies of 2.5 minutes.

I don't think that level of service is warranted. You are suggesting subway service levels for suburban branches.

I believe you can easily have trains every 2 minutes in the tunnel, which means that even with 5 branches, you can still offer 10 minute service on each branch, which is perfectly adequate especially when some of the branching takes place away from the centre of the city allowing more frequent service in central areas where demand warrants it.

I have heard the arguments about high service levels all converging at Bayview allowing easy transfers but that model will either not work or you will require excess capacity west of Bayview. If for example, you had a train every 2.5 minutes on the Confederation Line or 24 trains every hour and a train every 5 minutes from the south and every 5 minutes from Gatineau, that means that 24 trains meet the 24 Confederation Line trains at Bayview. Even if just 50% of the north and south trains capacity transfer to downtown, you will almost certainly have a passenger congestion problem.

Of course, as long as the Trillium Line continues to limp along mostly serving students and the Prince of Wales Bridge continues to rust away serving nobody, this will not be an issue.

[swimmer_spe]

Is there any reason that the Trillium Line trains could not run on the Confederation lines?
Could the opposite work if they installed overhead wires?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Is there any reason that the Trillium Line trains could not run on the Confederation lines?
Could the opposite work if they installed overhead wires?

Maybe, but you would also have to rebuild all the Trillium Line stations from high floor to low floor, and replace all the trains. Signalling is probably different too, if any mainline freight trains currently run over those tracks they would have to stop doing so.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have heard the arguments about high service levels all converging at Bayview allowing easy transfers but that model will either not work or you will require excess capacity west of Bayview.

That makes no sense. If demand west of Bayview is too high to allow transferring passengers from Trillium to fit on the train, then demand west of Bayview is also too high to allow its frequencies to be dropped to accommodate interlining.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Maybe, but you would also have to rebuild all the Trillium Line stations from high floor to low floor, and replace all the trains. Signalling is probably different too, if any mainline freight trains currently run over those tracks they would have to stop doing so.

Why would those freight trains have to stop?

There are mainline trains using overhead electrified lines, even if they do not use the power.

As far as the redesign of the platforms, When they start work on double tracking it, they could do it.

Also, don't they make trains that have access to both high and low platforms?

Just think, Now you could have a line going from potentially the Airport to downtown, a line from east and west going downtown, and a line from Gatineau going downtown.
Sounds like a problem solved.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That makes no sense. If demand west of Bayview is too high to allow transferring passengers from Trillium to fit on the train, then demand west of Bayview is also too high to allow its frequencies to be dropped to accommodate interlining.

And if what you say is true, then Trillium Line passengers will be waiting multiple trains during peak periods in order to get downtown.

All I was saying is that you are building a choke point when suggesting that all Trillium Line passengers and ultimately Gatineau passengers have to transfer at Bayview to go downtown.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Maybe, but you would also have to rebuild all the Trillium Line stations from high floor to low floor, and replace all the trains. Signalling is probably different too, if any mainline freight trains currently run over those tracks they would have to stop doing so.

I don't believe there are any freight trains at all running in central Ottawa in our era.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

I also thought that maybe we should consider turning the NCR into a federal district. The provincial divide is the single biggest obstacle in allowing Ottawa and Gatineau to operate like a regular city. Such a change could benefit residents on both sides of the river. Though, it's hard to tell how people would react to such a change.

Such an idea will never ever fly, for a host of reasons.

[caltrane74]

Updated Union Station Renovation - approved




Toronto committee approves revised plan for Union Station’s lower concourse

Outside company will fund extra construction for a “culinary, cultural and retail” experience on the lower level, with an emphasis on food.

Toronto’s government management committee has approved a proposal to create a “culinary, cultural and retail” experience beneath the Great Hall at Union Station.
The committee is recommending that council authorize an amendment to a 2009 lease agreement between the city and Osmington, the company that manages and leases space in the historic transportation hub.
“The overall vision is to turn this into a destination in itself and make it a great civic space,” said Osmington’s Brad Keast, vice-president, development.
“With the commuters using the station, at its peak, four hours a day, we think that there’s opportunity to animate the space and make it a destination the other 20 hours a day.”
The “vision is consistent with the mixed use and function models employed at both Grand Central (Terminal) in New York City, and St. Pancras Station in London,” according to a city staff report.

Could have put this in the retail thread.. too??

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why would those freight trains have to stop?

There are mainline trains using overhead electrified lines, even if they do not use the power.

As far as the redesign of the platforms, When they start work on double tracking it, they could do it.

Also, don't they make trains that have access to both high and low platforms?

Just think, Now you could have a line going from potentially the Airport to downtown, a line from east and west going downtown, and a line from Gatineau going downtown.
Sounds like a problem solved.

If the Trillium line was interlining with the Confederation Line then it would have to use the same signalling system, which wouldn't be compatible with any mainline trains. Also, the loading gauge of the mainline trains could cause them to hit stations, OHLE equipment etc designed for smaller vehicles.

You might be able to get some trains that could use high and low floor platforms, but you'd still need to buy new ones regardless - it would be easier to rebuild the stations. I'm not saying interlining is impossible, and it may even be a good idea, but it definitely isn't super easy either. If that is the path to go down, better make the decision early while there has been much invested.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't believe there are any freight trains at all running in central Ottawa in our era.

Maybe not 'Central' Ottawa, but the wikipedia article states "The present line runs north-south on a railway line, from Bayview to Greenboro, a distance of approximately 8 kilometres (5 mi). It is isolated from road traffic, but shared with other trains; after operating hours the track has been infrequently used by Ottawa Central for freight service to the National Research Council."

[ssiguy]

I'm curious what is going on in Winnipeg and it's BRT. I know they built the first phase but it is pretty small. Has phase 2 started to UM and what about other corridors?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I'm curious what is going on in Winnipeg and it's BRT. I know they built the first phase but it is pretty small. Has phase 2 started to UM and what about other corridors?

An RFQ was put out in 2014 and the winners were:

Plenary Roads Winnipeg: led by Plenary Group Canada, PCL Constructors Canada Inc., Alberta Highway Services Limited (a division of ColasCanada Inc.)
Red River Infrastructure Group: led by HOCHTIEF PPP Solutions North America, Inc., Ledcor Infrastructure Investments Inc., Flatiron Constructors Canada Limited, Ledcor CMI Limited, Ledcor Alberta Limited, AECOM, McElhanney
WinnCity Transportation Partners: led by Aecon, Gracorp/Graham, BBGI

Soil sampling took place in the fall of 2015. The RFP is currently ongoing with the winner to be selected within the next few months. I'm not sure of the timeline beyond that.

Here's the link:

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/major-proj...y/southwest-transitway-stage-2-overview/

[ssiguy]

Thanks for the info.

Are there any other lines under study? Winnipeg seems to be taking it's time with these BRT routes.