Tucson Development Thread

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by juan.x.ito

i think everyone would agree that the legal services building is hideous, but i don't think anything will be done about it.

in other smaller news; it seems a Sprouts Farmer's Market and a MyPlace Hotel are in the plans for the Landing shopping center.

I always thought the southwestern area of Tucson was really underserved by healthier grocery options, so I'm excited for this. Here's the link to the map:

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1090...n-AZ/24002172/

There's been a Sprouts in Sahuarita for about 2 years now. I have to drive to Tucson for Trader Joe's. People from southwestern Tucson can drive to Sahuarita for Sprouts.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Nobody is going to argue that the drive through Tucson on I-10 is eye-pleasing. It's not. The I-10 drive through Phoenix metro is much nicer urban-wise. Cleaner frontage, no weeds, few empty lots. Tucson...not so much. As for skyline, Tucson has a nice little skyline really but the damn "tile building" is one of the ugliest/fugliest buildings on the planet. Someone should demolish it or do a serious rehab of the exterior. It's absolutely hideous and it was hideous and tacky in 1968. It really tarnishes what is otherwise a nice little collection of modest buildings. Hey, I'm blue-skying it here !

I guess to each his own. I've come to love that mid-century blue tile skyscraper. I think its my favorite one downtown! I like the gold accents on the other 3 sides. Haha. Too funny. And no...dont tear down a skyscraper. Tucson will NEVER EVER build one again.

[somethingfast]

oh man not sure what to say lol. yep, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that! i do agree with you that they shouldn't tear it down as the odds of another 250' tower downtown seems pretty slim !!

[ZonaRealtor2021]

So I wanted to throw my two cents into this conversation I had a great rant but unfortunately it got deleted so now I am just going to throw out a few observations and opinions that I feel matter. I just moved back from Las Vegas after living out there for 12 years I also lived in Miami South Beach and briefly in Seattle so in my opinion I feel what a real sense of growth, organization, and cohesion feels like.
I’m not trying to compare those three cities because that’s unfair to Tucson but….
I think that’s one of Tucson‘s major issues there is none!
I think there should be code for major arterials here in Tucson to have at least have cohesion in landscaping, trees lining the sidewalks, and shoot sidewalks lol.
Another priority should be making the airport area look clean, once again cohesion and make it a priority to have those dirt lots built up.
Another is upgrading to using top rated asphalt I know that we use lower grade and it shows -In Las Vegas they used top grade asphalt on there roads and they last for over 10 years at a minimum…here they get done with the project & within 2 to 3 years after that they are already doing preservation work it’s a joke!!!
We need to stop giving neighborhood association so much clout nobody is guaranteed to have a Mountain View in the middle of a city of 1 million people.
And another one and this is truly a Tucson thing is stop giving the sign committee so much control their clout is ridiculous here.
Then I think businesses will stop over looking Tucson and go into Pinal County ( I just read an article in AZBEX) where a group of site selectors in businesses were asked if they ever consider Pima County or Tucson and they said flat out no!
As a nerd for height and density I’ve come to the realization we will never get there but maybe we could get a project or two before all the available lots DT are gone..

But not if we continue going to HSL and Humberto Lopez there a joke!

Marcel Dabdoub well he got the AC Marriott done he is also over his head.

One South church owner Zack Fenton is another joke!!

And peach properties is trash too

And that’s just the beginning but one can hope right

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Originally Posted by AZ71

I guess to each his own. I've come to love that mid-century blue tile skyscraper. I think its my favorite one downtown! I like the gold accents on the other 3 sides. Haha. Too funny. And no...dont tear down a skyscraper. Tucson will NEVER EVER build one again.

They should really try to raise the 1 million dollars needed to fix the sign on top it and have it going again?!?

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by ZonaRealtor2021

So I wanted to throw my two cents into this conversation I had a great rant but unfortunately it got deleted so now I am just going to throw out a few observations and opinions that I feel matter. I just moved back from Las Vegas after living out there for 12 years I also lived in Miami South Beach and briefly in Seattle so in my opinion I feel what a real sense of growth, organization, and cohesion feels like.
I’m not trying to compare those three cities because that’s unfair to Tucson but….
I think that’s one of Tucson‘s major issues there is none!
I think there should be code for major arterials here in Tucson to have at least have cohesion in landscaping, trees lining the sidewalks, and shoot sidewalks lol.
Another priority should be making the airport area look clean, once again cohesion and make it a priority to have those dirt lots built up.
Another is upgrading to using top rated asphalt I know that we use lower grade and it shows -In Las Vegas they used top grade asphalt on there roads and they last for over 10 years at a minimum…here they get done with the project & within 2 to 3 years after that they are already doing preservation work it’s a joke!!!
We need to stop giving neighborhood association so much clout nobody is guaranteed to have a Mountain View in the middle of a city of 1 million people.
And another one and this is truly a Tucson thing is stop giving the sign committee so much control their clout is ridiculous here.
Then I think businesses will stop over looking Tucson and go into Pinal County ( I just read an article in AZBEX) where a group of site selectors in businesses were asked if they ever consider Pima County or Tucson and they said flat out no!
As a nerd for height and density I’ve come to the realization we will never get there but maybe we could get a project or two before all the available lots DT are gone..

But not if we continue going to HSL and Humberto Lopez there a joke!

Marcel Dabdoub well he got the AC Marriott done he is also over his head.

One South church owner Zack Fenton is another joke!!

And peach properties is trash too

And that’s just the beginning but one can hope right

I agree with most of what you said. Is there some kind of city ordinance that says we can only use local investors? All these local developers are too small to build anything of any size. Its pure luck the AC Marriott was built. But that was like almost 5 years ago and its what...like a 5 story building built on two levels of parking? Its no big accomplishment, Tucson.

I dont know how you make Tucson more friendly to outside developers. I've contacted about 10 developers who have experience building 16-25 story residential towers in Phx, Tempe and in the midwest. Told them they should jump on this 75 E Broadway property now. No one is interested. It takes UA MainGate 18 months max to put up a 16 story tower over there. Why? Cause they are outside companies who have money and make it happen.

You're also right about cohesion. Look at downtown itself. HSL should never have been allowed to build the FLIN there right on an entertainment corner beside TCC. Wrong project and the wrong look for how to build. And whats up with HSL still not doing anything with that old AZ Hotel downtown? Its been sitting empty for like 7 years now. HSL are fools.

[ZonaRealtor2021]

It’s definitely disappointing that Tucson can’t really capitalize on all the recent successes and spotlight shown on the city since 2015 on award, we continue to constantly get overlooked.
until we can somehow stop that I don’t see any real major companies moving in here other than what have already done so in the past couple years.

Let’s take a look at our most comparable cities in our region Albuquerque and El Paso.
El Paso just finished within this past year there new cities tallest and it was also a mix use with a new headquarters for a bank. ( the building is a Mona Lisa compared to the 75 East Broadway design)
Albuquerque’s last mayor put out a call for development for the cities new tallest with a really sleek design and unfortunately the new administration that came in didn’t want it but at least they tried not to mention the tremendous amount of apartment growth and construction is unprecedented Tucson isn’t even close.
What Albuquerque has been able to do with attracting Netflix to ABQ studios & the Orion Center is huge!!!!
I think Fletcher misses the ball sometimes he doesn’t really strive for big things while he has turned around and saved Rio Nuevo he doesn’t seem to be focus on these types of concerns on this thread to show that our downtown is really prosperous and thriving.
We should be able to build a 20 story apartment /condo building with the amount that they are charging for rent in the downtown core maybe those Boston lenders would come back and try to do a solid mix use without class a office space if we had better local developers to try to reign them back in???

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Also I forgot to throw in there how are we ever going to get a 200+ foot tower if we can’t even get Bourn companies to fully build out city park, it’s been over five years and they can’t even get the food hall off the ground they let go of the plans for the bowling alley and decided to give it all to hexagon it shows that we are not ready for anything huge here!

Small town developers = small downtown it goes hand-in-hand I wish Art Moreno the owner of the Angels would come back to Tucson and build some stuff instead of just donating to the U of A sorry football team.

[somethingfast]

you guys are calling out two very real realities that hinder Tucson's progress in development: 1) the relatively slow velocity of money compared to other cities, and 2) the gated access to city council by a very few players (major grifting there). I don't know how either is solved but I think it starts voting out the council and starting over with some youth maybe.

[andrewsaturn]

I agree with some and most sentiments about Tucson development issues. HSL and Peach Properties seem like they have no great vision or vision for even unique architectural designs that would separate Tucson from other major cities.

Agree about cohesiveness. But in terms of things to do and where things are on a large scale lol. I think it will be awhile until we get there and the streetcar certainly helps but downtown we have sporadic areas of development. We have one major street of dining that is Congress which is not even completely filled out with shops. Mercado district is nice but is far from the main tourist attraction areas of Congress/4th ave/University (which is a nice little cohesiveness). I guess what I'm trying to say is we need to connect TIA to downtown with light rail and then extend that to either Tucson Mall or Park Place mall but really that won't happen for a long time since Broadway widening is already happening as well as the repaving of Oracle rd. So maybe extend it somehow to Tucson Marketplace at Kino?

Too much insight and power is given to neighborhoods that want their cake and eat it too here. If you live 15-30 min from downtown tucson (which is most of Tucson proper), chances are that business and growth is going to happen in your neighborhood so complaints about increased traffic is ridiculous to keep growth from happening. If you want no traffic, move outside of city limits really. (Current situation right now is Amazon in Marana).

What do you guys mean Tucson is ugly to drive through? Lol. Not being sarcastic at all but if you're coming in from the south on the highway we have a great view of downtown with Catalina mountains I think is SUPER pretty. If you're coming in from the North on I10, I agree that development along that corridor could be spruced up and more high density and mid rises could be developed near downtown especially near Speedway and Congress. Obviously it won't ever be like driving into Philly or NYC but it's decent. (Talks and meetings of turning the hotel city center on Granada into an apartment complex with one building being 4 stories should help a little).

Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder . I also like the blue tile building. Thought it was ugly at first too but now I think is unique enough to write it off as ugly.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

you guys are calling out two very real realities that hinder Tucson's progress in development: 1) the relatively slow velocity of money compared to other cities, and 2) the gated access to city council by a very few players (major grifting there). I don't know how either is solved but I think it starts voting out the council and starting over with some youth maybe.

I usually try to vote non-partisan in Tucson when it comes to development, so I look at a candidate's history or try to find info about where they stood on previous developments. Unless, they are a real douche bag of a person...

[somethingfast]

part of the problem in Tucson (like all smaller or smaller-minded cities) is that, like the slower velocity of money due to lack of entrepreneurial funding, extrinsic investment, etc., there is less turn in local government. you get lifers on boards and councils and that stifles innovation. a place like Phoenix by comparison encourages more turnover and competition of ideas that other bigger economic powerhouses share in common. smaller cities like Tucsn become their own worst enemy in that these fiefdoms protect their own bubbles at the cost of innovation/progress. that is why in a stagnant environment it's important to vote in new blood and further encourage new blood to run by doing that. if you keep voting the same ol same ol you're going to get the same ol same ol. but i honestly think the cult of personality that Tucson has embraces that dynamic unfortunately.

[Obadno]

Maybe this is a misread on my part but I think a lot of the development issues with Tucson is there is not a desire by the general population (thus the officials) to try and really do any sort of rapid growth.

I never got the impression Tucson wanted or wants to be a big city, hell I get the impression most people in Tucson already feel like its gotten too big.

I know that's sort of a metaphysical analysis but I think simply the desire for growth (lack there of) is a major reason you don't get that sort of drive for Tucson development.

[AZ71]

I agree with the last commenter. Tucson does have this "no-growth" concept. They oppose everything. They dont want the I-11 corridor through Avra Valley. Then you give them an alternative like the Benson to San Manuel route and they're up in arms about that too. They say they want to keep that corridor on I-10 which means there will have to be a center elevated lane (like the carpool lanes in CA) but there will vote that down too. It never stops. Aviation Pkwy should have been a high speed rail line from TIA to downtown. Not a parkway with stupid lights. No one uses it for that.

I'm not so sure bringing in youth to city council positions will help. They seem all about nature and bike paths. But it doesn't matter, Steve Kozachik was elected again and he's the one that axed the 25-story Sheraton Hotel downtown a decade ago. He said he thought it'd dominate the hotel market in downtown. Ok...great, now we have a 6-story Doubletree and that Hampton Inn/Home2Suites near TCC. Yea, big improvement that took a decade to get.

I just heard back from a residential developer about 75 Broadway. He actually looked into it and said that that property had other terms associated with it. Other development deals cut so it would be a huge lengthy process. He also said his company has tried to enter the Tucson marketplace but Tucson is generally not inviting, complicated...and the big thing is the labor force is so small there aren't enough workers to build a 25-story building. OK...so how do they build MainGate student housing in 18 months? I told him to bring his own workers down from Phx on the cities dime.

This is what I suggest...every single one of us go to Rio Nuevo's website and email your thoughts. Tell them you're tired of the non-growth. Tired using local developers with ugly buildings and concepts and we need to use an "upward, not outward" approach to correct urban sprawl. Stop focusing on office space. (Downtown will never be home to businesses, its focus should be residential, retail, restaurants, entertainment, conventions) and start building these residential towers. HSL should have made one tall FLIN tower instead of using SO MUCH LAND over the entire NE corner of the TCC complex. Its absurd they would allow that.

The sad part of this is the Ronstadt Center that was supposed to look cool and everything is a Peach Property too. So now we know for sure that will never be built either.

We have to force Fletcher at Rio....and even contact all the city council members to be pro-building and pro-height. I'm sick of these 5-7 story mid-rise buildings with no design appeal. Its ruining downtown..and there are only a few empty lots left to build now.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

part of the problem in Tucson (like all smaller or smaller-minded cities) is that, like the slower velocity of money due to lack of entrepreneurial funding, extrinsic investment, etc., there is less turn in local government. you get lifers on boards and councils and that stifles innovation. a place like Phoenix by comparison encourages more turnover and competition of ideas that other bigger economic powerhouses share in common. smaller cities like Tucsn become their own worst enemy in that these fiefdoms protect their own bubbles at the cost of innovation/progress. that is why in a stagnant environment it's important to vote in new blood and further encourage new blood to run by doing that. if you keep voting the same ol same ol you're going to get the same ol same ol. but i honestly think the cult of personality that Tucson has embraces that dynamic unfortunately.

I think Tucson is trying to break out of this personality albeit it's going frustratingly slowly. I think progressives win and lose sometimes. Streetcar still got built with a lot of oppositions and Reid Park zoo is still expanding albeit with a new plan. I think many Tucsonans are hungry for change but it seems like these people simply don't vote either. I think as we improve the city little by little and take care of the basic stuff ( like improving roads, planting more trees, more sidewalks, tearing down abandon buildings) bigger change can happen and hopefully it can build some sort of momentum.

[andrewsaturn]

Eckbo Plaza restoration is complete:

[andrewsaturn]

I wasn't able to listen to this past RN meeting but this article I think sums it up:

https://realestatedaily-news.com/rio...o-full-blocks/

[somethingfast]

^ guys I'm old enough to remember these same old arguments about the "no-growth" NIMBY crowd in Tucson back in the 80's. sounds like nothing's changed. basically if you want some high-rises and actual urbanity you need to leave. i don't see Tucson changing. it's a legacy attitude that people seem to inherit when they get there. look at Arizona Stadium - it's by far the ugliest stadium in the PAC-12 and part of the reason the program sucks. but they act like it's the Roman Coliseum. okay sure whatever.

[ZonaRealtor2021]

I’m going to try & respond to all of these great insights you guys have…
I’ll start by saying this as far as driving in and out of the city it’s ugly as hell but I think there is an opportunity to really change that due to our amazing mountains & one-of-a-kind desert landscape, to really make a lasting impression on people driving in and out of the city. I think it starts with the city taking a more in charge approach with the freeway system I know that’s handled by the state but picking up trash, cohesive landscaping and removal of graffiti is a good start even before we can build up on those huge empty lots along I10 &19.
With that being said I don’t think the answer is more power centers I think those are also equally ugly ( I would rather have the dirt lots) that’s like every other city out there.
As far as new blood in city government I agree I think there needs to be a change I really wish we could annex Casas adobes and the foothills for many reasons but that’s never gonna happen.
I think there needs to be a in-depth investigation as to why Fletcher & Rio Nuevo seems to only look at local developers it smells fishy to me.
As far as the Mercado is concerned it’s nice but it’s so closed off from downtown due to I10 I don’t think you ever really feel part of the heart of downtown.
I really feel the next major point of interest and construction boom is going to be along miracle mile and oracle…I’ve been watching the Thrive in the 05 and they’re really working hard and have some good ideas.. its really going to change the feel of entering downtown from the north side.
I really wish and prefer tracks in the ground but if thats too expensive & going to take another 20 to 30 years I would rather us invest in rapid bus routes like they did in Albuquerque from downtown to the airport down Campbell/Kino then downtown up to Tucson Mall.
We definitely got to do something before we completely lose our opportunity too change for the better!
But with Tucson threatening to pull out of the next round of the RTA it doesn’t look good.

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Also I just read that a few of the neighborhoods that were left out of the initial process are now back in and they lowered heights of the new overlay District from 16 to 6 or 4 stories what a joke!!!!! Does anybody have any more info on what areas this exactly covers now?