Canadian Retail Thread

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

It is quite amusing how people in Winnipeg settle for the lowest common denominator. Every city in Canada promoting D/T living include full-service grocery stores as a key amenity. Except for Winnipeg; where Giant Tiger is considered to be a grocery store.

Well, what do you call a place that sells milk, bread, produce, meats, packaged foods, etc.?

It's not a full service supermarket but neither is Walmart (when was the last time you saw a butcher or a baker at one?). Yet many people rely on it for their food.

It's a perfectly fine place to stock up "between shops".

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by esquire

When I lived downtown Giant Tiger was my place for "in between" grocery shops when I'd need some milk, bread, fruit, etc. to tide me over. Good selection and reasonably priced. But whenever I bring it up as a counterpoint in the "downtown Winnipeg has no grocery stores" conversations that occasionally pop up, some people act like I'm advocating for grocery shopping at Petro-Canada.

probably because if it's not a full sized suburban grocery store people act like it's not a real store
Only the cities with massive amounts of downtown housing can support a full service grocer. I think in America the magic number grocery retailers want to see is around 20,000-25,000 downtown population.

Buffalo opened up a small local, independent grocer (the 2nd location) downtown adjacent to an affordable housing development that focuses first on fresh fruit and vegetables (as much NY State produce as possible) and a deli/grab n go items, people act like it it's a Whole Foods that opened up

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Wigs

probably because if it's not a full sized suburban grocery store people act like it's not a real store
Only the cities was massive amounts of downtown housing can support a full service grocer. I think in America the magic number grocery retailers want to see is around 20,000-25,000 downtown population.

Buffalo opened up a small local, independent grocer (the 2nd location) downtown adjacent to an affordable housing development that focuses first on fresh fruit and vegetables (as much NY State produce as possible) and a deli/grab n go items, people act like it it's a Whole Foods that opened up

Grand Forks, ND (two hours south of Winnipeg); population ~60K has a full service grocery store. There are many cities in Canada smaller than Winnipeg which support full-service D/T grocery stores. These include: Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, Kingston, Halifax, Moncton; plus many more.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Grand Forks, ND (two hours south of Winnipeg); population ~60K has a full service grocery store. There are many cities in Canada smaller than Winnipeg which support full-service D/T grocery stores. These include: Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, Kingston, Halifax, Moncton; plus many more.

I lived in downtown Winnipeg for several years and had no problem walking to get my groceries in and around the area (Family Foods, Safeway, Giant Tiger). Now there are many delivery options you can add to the mix. There may be reasons why someone doesn't want to live in downtown Winnipeg but lack of grocery options is not a compelling one IMO.

[Wigs]

Ozabald,
How you think and how retailers think in the 2020s are completely different things.

Most retailers in long established Metros won't bring grocery stores to downtown unless they exceed a certain population threshold. Also they see a market like downtown Winnipeg as challenging. Winnipeg has higher crime than national avg and downtown already went through Portage Place and other major retail failing/disappearing. Like an American peer city such as Buffalo, Winnipeg is one of those markets where the city would have to cajole the retailer into opening up.

[cslusarc]

BurnabyNow reports:
End of an era: The first mall-based Hudson’s Bay is shutting down in Burnaby
Hudson's Bay Co. shaped Lougheed Town Centre as we know it.

This store is 125,400 sq. ft. and is leased.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I used to tell that to the people who would say “Île de Hull” (which includes downtown Gatineau) is a food desert. It was true to some extent, but most of them had no idea GT had a sizeable grocery section with fresh produce and all. They ended up closing that location though.

Fingers crossed that the Metro at W/E II, a few blocks south of where the Giant Tigre was, becomes reality.

On the HBC front, Ottawa-Gatineau has yet to lose any of its 5 locations. I'm quite surprised. Three of the five have Zellers. Haven't been yet.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Fingers crossed that the Metro at W/E II, a few blocks south of where the Giant Tigre was, becomes reality.

On the HBC front, Ottawa-Gatineau has yet to lose any of its 5 locations. I'm quite surprised. Three of the five have Zellers. Haven't been yet.

As Ottawa has higher incomes than the Canadian average and the CMA has been rapidly growing maybe it can support all of them

Or maybe the worst performer of the 5 might be eventually jettisoned

[casper]

Originally Posted by Wigs

As Ottawa has higher incomes than the Canadian average and the CMA has been rapidly growing maybe it can support all of them

Or maybe the worst performer of the 5 might be eventually jettisoned

May also depend on the lease. If HSBC can't get out of the lease, then it comes down to looking at the books. If they are marginally profitable at the location or their losses are less than the lease payment they may chose to keep it open.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by casper

May also depend on the lease. If HSBC can't get out of the lease, then it comes down to looking at the books. If they are marginally profitable at the location or their losses are less than the lease payment they may chose to keep it open.

True

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I used to tell that to the people who would say “Île de Hull” (which includes downtown Gatineau) is a food desert. It was true to some extent, but most of them had no idea GT had a sizeable grocery section with fresh produce and all. They ended up closing that location though.

They've just opened a brand new one there, at 9 Boul Montclair
Much larger than the previous one and a much wider grocery section too

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Ozabald,
How you think and how retailers think in the 2020s are completely different things.

Most retailers in long established Metros won't bring grocery stores to downtown unless they exceed a certain population threshold. Also they see a market like downtown Winnipeg as challenging. Winnipeg has higher crime than national avg and downtown already went through Portage Place and other major retail failing/disappearing. Like an American peer city such as Buffalo, Winnipeg is one of those markets where the city would have to cajole the retailer into opening up.

I agree with you 100%. The lack of a key amenity such as a full-service grocery store will blunt efforts to develop a sizeable residential population in D/T Winnipeg.

[cslusarc]

When I used live in 411 Cumberland, a condo tower facing the now splash pad @ Winnipeg's Central Park, I used to shop at the Extra Foods (now No Frills) down the street at Notre Dame & Langside.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

I agree with you 100%. The lack of a key amenity such as a full-service grocery store will blunt efforts to develop a sizeable residential population in D/T Winnipeg.

but unfortunately in the retail world it's not if you build it they will come. It's if the downtown develops an adequate population and reaches a certain population threshold, the retailers will come

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by cslusarc

When I used live in 411 Cumberland, a condo tower facing the now splash pad @ Winnipeg's Central Park, I used to shop at the Extra Foods (now No Frills) down the street at Notre Dame & Langside.

No Frills used to be a solid discount grocery store. Then the pandemic and inflation happened and the Weston family and Loblaws board used it to shaft their customer base while the big 3 grocery chains are raking in record profits. Meanwhile the typical Canadian is like "I'm spending double or more on groceries than 3-5 years ago"

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Once a major anchor leaves a shopping mall that's typically the early death knell, unless they find another anchor replacement or subdivide the store into multiple stores that the mall doesn't have.

I have considered that Simons location to be the anchor for Londonderry, as Simons in general is a much better store overall than Hudson's Bay. I actually prefer that Simons location to West Ed, as it's not as hectic and better laid-out (and also much closer to my house).

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Harrison

I have considered that Simons location to be the anchor for Londonderry, as Simons in general is a much better store overall than Hudson's Bay. I actually prefer that Simons location to West Ed, as it's not as hectic and better laid-out (and also much closer to my house).

I'd definitely consider Simons an anchor. Edmonton has 2 and Calgary only has 1! I love the men's shirts I've purchased there and so does my brother. I've only purchased online.

We don't even have one in Niagara despite roughly 500,000 people in the region. Heck even Hamilton doesn't have one and they're around 600,000 or 1.1M combined Hamilton-Niagara
The closest one is Mississauga at Square One over an hour drive for most of Niagara depending on Toronto traffic--which is getting worse by the month.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Wigs

No Frills used to be a solid discount grocery store. Then the pandemic and inflation happened and the Weston family and Loblaws board used it to shaft their customer base while the big 3 grocery chains are raking in record profits. Meanwhile the typical Canadian is like "I'm spending double or more on groceries than 3-5 years ago"

I own Loblaws shares and I see no problem with that.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I own Loblaws shares and I see no problem with that.

Martin Shkreli has entered the chat

[harls]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

They've just opened a brand new one there, at 9 Boul Montclair
Much larger than the previous one and a much wider grocery section too

That is technically not on the Island of Hull

(also, I didn't know that they moved into the old Aubainerie).