CHICAGO | Aqua | 858 FT / 262 M | 87 FLOORS

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by i_am_hydrogen

It's no different from your earlier statement. Again, two simple alternatives. If they don't change the design, then they shouldn't build it. That's my last post on this. If it isn't clicking in your head, then it never will.

Then why did you start this arguement? It's pretty easy to understand what I'm trying to say.

I'll put it in a language that you'll understand:
I hope this project is canceled, if they don't cancel it, I hope that they will change the design because I don't like it.

I'm glad you're not continuing this pointless arguement.

[Steely Dan]

^ enough already, atlas.

you wish to see this project cancelled, we get it. now move on.

any further posts about this stupid side argument are going to be deleted.

[denizen467]

Originally Posted by observer

Aqua is a fine building diagram, however it is in the wrong climate zone...it should be in a climate that's warm all year round....I find the geometry as wonderful as the next person, and will be among those who go to the base of the building to look up at it, but the fact remains that Chicago is more cold than warm, and this is a painted concrete box with no insulation minus the insulated glass....when those miles of balconies are frozen it's going to cause a huge thermal bridge which will make the building extremely expensive to heat. In that respect, it's very enviromentally unfriendly and irresponsible...however I dought that will ever make it into the press.

Assuming the above matches the reality, I appreciate your analysis and the way you described it in detail. However, in that case, I look at this as a fortunate opportunity as opposed to a mistake: Chicago is getting a more adventuresome building than it would have gotten had sheer utilitarianism and logic prevailed. As a result, Chicago gets a building that makes Chicago look a little more like a sunbelt (or temperate clime) city as opposed to a city of huddled, austere towers that look like they are bracing for oncoming arctic winds. One of Chicago's biggest problems is that its reputation around the world involves mainly two things: Al Capone and cold climate. Since in reality Chicago's winters aren't as bad as the reputation, we don't want a city where the postcard shots suggest freezing weather, where everything looks like it's sealed off from nature. If we get architecture that embraces the sun, wind, etc. more, and looks a little more playful and fanciful, it will help immensely.

[Atlas]

This arguement should have ended awhile ago.

Funny thing is, I like it a little more now. At least the windy city is looking up.

[kalmia]

If you aren't going to buy a unit in this building then don't really worry about the heating and cooling.

BTW, radiant floor heat would be the best.

[kalmia]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Assuming the above matches the reality, I appreciate your analysis and the way you described it in detail. However, in that case, I look at this as a fortunate opportunity as opposed to a mistake: Chicago is getting a more adventuresome building than it would have gotten had sheer utilitarianism and logic prevailed. As a result, Chicago gets a building that makes Chicago look a little more like a sunbelt (or temperate clime) city as opposed to a city of huddled, austere towers that look like they are bracing for oncoming arctic winds. One of Chicago's biggest problems is that its reputation around the world involves mainly two things: Al Capone and cold climate. Since in reality Chicago's winters aren't as bad as the reputation, we don't want a city where the postcard shots suggest freezing weather, where everything looks like it's sealed off from nature. If we get architecture that embraces the sun, wind, etc. more, and looks a little more playful and fanciful, it will help immensely.

At least the winters of the past several years haven't been too bad.

[denizen467]

That's a big part of my point - Chicago doesn't seem to have the freezing winters that we had through the '70s and '80s. It used to be that the ground was white from Thanksgiving into like March. Now even the holiday season has bare ground sometimes. (Sure, there are always one or two weeks that are bitter cold each year, but for most people that's tolerable.) But the rest of the U.S. and the world still think of Chicago as an icebox, and that's awful for our image / tourism / convention / etc. business. So, the greenery, Millennium Park, the outdoor activities on Navy Pier, and things like Aqua hopefully will help dispell the image.

(Unfortunately, the "Windy City" nickname will continue to reinforce the misperception for a long time. But that's a discussion for another day.)

[Nowhereman1280]

I still don't think that heating is even an issue just because of extended floor slabs, I thought concrete was a good insulator, or am I wrong? I mean if it is a good insulator then there is no need to worry about this thing functioning as a giant radiator because concrete doesn't lose heat very quickly.

I agree, everyone thinks Chicago is an icebox, the image is even worse for Milwaukee which is only slightly cooler than Chicago, but thats not really true. I mean, even in the worst winter, there is only like one month of solid below freezing temperatures, and thats at the worst, which really isn't that bad. I guess that is an icebox when you can be in the 60's and 70's they get in Flordia in the winter.

[aaron38]

Heating won't be a major issue due to the scale of the project. A large builing like this has a very low surface area for it's large volume, as each unit shares interior walls, floor and roof and has limited exterior exposure.

Aqua is 400 some units right? Compare the heating requirement of this building to the heating load of 400 old bungalows with single pane windows and barely insulated atics.
Then stop worying about it.

[neverdone]

I see there is a lot of places left for buildings in LSE's land. I think it would be interesting if they built two very tall skiny towers to offset aqua. Maybe two 900ft. blue deep blue glass and stainless steel perfect cylinders, heavily lit at night. Regardless, aqua is great, and I am very excited for the project.

[Wild Onion Mike]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ well i say screw society and priorities, i wanna live in a city filled with cool-looking buildings, and aqua fits the bill. i eagerly anticipate its construction.

Long live Prince Nicholi Machiovelli!

[biophilic]

Does anybody know what's up on the west side of the Comed substation at the site? The whole strip of sidewalk in front of the Comed building on lower columbus has been fenced off and torn up. Does this have anything to do with Aqua, or is it unrelated?

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by neverdone

I see there is a lot of places left for buildings in LSE's land. I think it would be interesting if they built two very tall skiny towers to offset aqua. Maybe two 900ft. blue deep blue glass and stainless steel perfect cylinders, heavily lit at night. Regardless, aqua is great, and I am very excited for the project.

Hmmmm....I like that idea.

Anyhow, Chicago's worse enemy is not temperature but darkness. It always sucks to be in Eastern margin of a time zone band. I don't like it when it is pitch dark at 4:30 p.m. in December. Now that sucks!

[honte]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

I still don't think that heating is even an issue just because of extended floor slabs, I thought concrete was a good insulator, or am I wrong? I mean if it is a good insulator then there is no need to worry about this thing functioning as a giant radiator because concrete doesn't lose heat very quickly.

No, concrete is a terrible insulator, when you compare it to commercially-available products. The misperception comes because concrete does act like a thermal inductor or "thermal flywheel," so that it resists change in temperature once it has been heated or cooled. This can be advantageous if handled correctly (thermal mass, for example), but such systems don't necessarily prevent energy loss.

[StormFire]

Originally Posted by observer

One other note...there's are at least two reasons many residential towers along the lake do not have balconies (especially large ones)...the first one is the obvious need for developers wanting to max out nssf with lake views, but the more functional one is that because at least part of the year they are COVERED with spiders, blown in from lake breezes.

This doesn't make sense to me - can you help me w/ my ignorance? How do spiders blow across the lake????????

[Nowhereman1280]

Thanks Honte, I know that there are materials that leave concrete in the dust (i.e. hydrocarbon based synthetics), but I remember what I was think about contcrete now, the whole thermal mass thing, I guess a building that tall wouldn't have much concrete in any one place, so it wouldn't gain much from that effect.

Stormfire, I don't know exactly how not building balconies makes lake views any better, but I do know about the spider thing. If you ever see newly hatched spiders they are all making little threads that flow out in the breeze and carry them to new locations, which is how they spread. There are lots of spiders by the lake because there is a lot of food for them to eat down there (thats why you always see a bunch of spiders on docks and other water-related structures) this combined with the breeziness of the lake means lots of spiders getting blow all over lakefront buildings and setting up shop on them. So they don't get blown across the lake, there are just lots of them along the lake and they get blown high enough to get to the top of tall buildings. Not to mention balconies are ideal, with all their sharp angles and lighted features, places for spiders to make webs.

I hope that makes sense, if not, oh well.

[ChicagoBruce]

Deleted

Didn't read the post above about the spider, oopps. Nowhereman is correct. That is what I have heard as well.

[denizen467]

oops, multiple-post

[denizen467]

oops, multiple-post

[denizen467]

I know that locusts and other critters get blown thousands of miles off the coast of Africa into the Atlantic, so it would not be unthinkable that spiders get blown even all the way across the lake.
Anyway, I'll take spiders anyday over geckos, snakes, and other vermin that could be found on balconies in other parts of the country. (I wonder if downtown high-rise balconies will be safe from the cicada onslaught of next summer, though..)